Relevant in Europe: Batman 66, Spidy VE, AMH (but we can't buy it over here), Whoa Nellie

Not so relevant in Europe: Rob Zombie, Pabst Can Crusher, WWE

There is not really much difference between the continents when it comes to movies, TV shows, comic books and likewise.
The differences get bigger when it's about less internationally known bands, brands or sports which are very typical for the States and don't have any noteworthy international audience like American Football or Baseball.

Out of 23 pages? Not really dominating, it's what I call a topic change side track.

A few pages back there was a similar amount of discussion on Ghostbusters.

I'm very excited to see what Stern has in store with BM66. Hearing Gomez talk about it on the latest C2C podcast got me very interested indeed. Check it out if you haven't already.

As far as Hobbit sucking?? You're VERY wrong there. The problem is, people write something like that here, and then people just start parroting it as if it's a fact... It's not.

It doesn't matter at all that the movie was a total miss. I LOVED the LOTR films (and the Pin!), but The Hobbit trilogy was an unmitigated disaster. Even the filmmakers will admit this. They had no idea what they were doing, WHILE they were doing it!? It was a huge opportunity missed. A beloved story, bloated, and overwrought in to something nearly unrecognizable from the source material...

That said, it makes an EXCELLENT pinball theme!

The machine shoots REALLY nicely. Smooth ramp shots that are actually kind of reminiscent of Metallica, nice orbits, and double gobble holes behind drops. Also some super wide and difficult drop shots that are more akin to an old school wide body like Future Spa. The controllable drops make for some VERY interesting mechanics that many probably haven't seen in action. Such as...

Hit the few stand ups revealed in a constantly travelling wave of moving Drop targets. Very cool.

Hit ONLY Drops, while avoiding Stand Ups

Carefully reveal gobble holes without resetting the bank to get Extra Ball

Etc etc. There are loads.

The Beast pop ups, which dominated the early code, become much more of a strategic element as code has matured. My hope is they'll be utilized even more sparingly, but I'm pretty certain Keefer knows what he's doing!

Point is, Hobbit shoots REALLY nicely, with TONS of shot variety. It's flows well, and software is getting good, fast! It doesn't BY ANY stretch suck. If it sucked when you played it, then it wasn't set up right, or code was early. Maybe it's just not your cup of tea... But it certainly doesn't suck!

However, the fact that it's beautiful, and has a giant screen with loads of assets are NOT what's going to make it a great game. Software is going to make or break it. Look at what Lyman did for TWD... I believe KJ will do this for Hobbit.

Speak of the devil. We have a new game announced with Lyman at the helm. I'm halfway in already! Now tell me Gomez got excited in a team meeting, and raised his hand, and said "I have to design this theme". Now tell me he and Lyman talked about what they loved about BDK, and got rid of the rest... I'm getting VERY interested, right??!

Batman 66 (yes, we could debate what that means... Let's agree this pin will feature assets from the TV show as stated on C2C) is a KILLER pinball theme. Campy, nostalgic, bright, zany... It's pressing all the right flipper buttons with me. I hope Gomez, and Lyman knock it out of the park. Can't wait to see what Stern has settled on for their new screen design. It's a good time to be in to Pinball!

Because pinball has been one of those crazy hobbies where people always hope to cash out for 'what I am in it for' or a small loss or profit. Crazy really.

So, if people start taking big losses, it will affect the market big time.

Honestly is there any other hobby where your toys retain at least 90% of their value and often go up in price, basically PAYING YOU to have them?

Make no mistake - this is a MAJOR reason the pin market is strong, and were it to change, sales would drop.

True. I forgot about the original intent of the upper pf.

I've only put maybe a dozen games on it, and I want to like it as a I big fan of WOZ. But the endless modes just make me realize that I'll to waste 20 minutes on each game to see it light up. I want JJP to be successfull, and believe it's still possible.

Yes, comic collecting......comics I bought for 25 cents in the 70'a are worth 1000's now......Everytime a new superhero movie comes out related character comics value skyrocket.

Well i like NFL, I even got a gamepass subscription, can't wait to next sunday
Was wondering about the Batman 66, I never saw that show when I was young but maybe I am to young..

The issue is the 90 % is now more like 85 % and it's falling further. I'd say newer games are going to take close to 20 % loss, when sold.

Exception WWLE is taking close to 35 %

Also hearing Stern is only replacing games with 5 or more ghosted inserts.

Only having 4 colors just doesn't make it for me.

Or a 20-25% loss if you're unlucky enough to have a bad game like WWE or one needing more code like KISS. Regardless of the ask, KISS LEs are changing hands for around 6k or a little below right now (which I personally think is a great time to get one because code is coming, unlike WWE which will be a dog at any price). Pins should never be considered a great investment, or even a good one. They're fun, and you'll get some money back when you sell one. That's it.

Poor comparison, we're talking about new pins holding most of their value or even going up in value. 40+ year old comics going up in value isn't close to the same thing.

I remember unboxing my SM and saying to my friend, "here goes $1000" because that's basically what it cost you to unbox a new game.

This, buying a new game, throwing a bunch of toys on it and then trying to get what you paid for it or more is a relatively new thing.

So maybe Vid makes a "How to ghost your inserts" thread for all the poor souls with only 4 ghosted inserts?

yeah but its still Lonnie code. Which will never be stellar.

Lyman's supposed to be the one fixing KISS up, either solo or in tandem with Lonnie or another. Metallica eventually became stellar code with that team, remember? It's not the first time that's happened. Pretty sure KISS will get the love it needs to shine. It's already a fun pick up and play machine now, but with the right code could be amazing.

Yup totally agree, they could have had a monster there looks amazing, build is great, theme is really good, I enjoyed the movies and it would look good next to my lotr, however the game is a real bore to play, which is too bad I would have considered getting one - very much a letdown due to the poor layout.

Metallica was never a team. It's 100% Pure Lyman.

That is how I decide what to watch on TV. Pinball has become a series of re-runs too, it would seem.

Pretty sure this is a Pinside bylaw.

Couldn't agree more. TH is a total snooze fest. Who has thirty plus minutes to play one game of pinball? Apparently you need to own one to get the true feel of it yet there are so many huo games coming up for sale.
Hopefully with Jack out of big picture at jjp, they've got the right people to manufacture pats game correctly.

What's the average return profit on a MMR?

So then, is IPDB wrong listing Lonnie as one of the programmers on Metallica?

They are running out of chances. If TH isn't as successful as their estimates, and it appears that is the case, then things could turn from bad to worse in a hurry. I really hope the company survives but they need to expedite their designs to market and need a home run with #3.

I always wonder where you guys get your numbers from.

I probably should not have said "as it appears is the case", as we simply do not know. Thanks for the reminder.

I see it happen all of the time on Pinside and you are not alone. I've misspoken also in the past and I think its something we should all guard against.

Yes. That was Lyman's game from day 1.

The Lonnie/Lyman collaborations are Iron Man, Tron, Avatar and maybe BBH...all games that have the same general framework and rules. Lyman gave them excellent nuance, which is why "simple" games like Tron and IM eventually came to be revered as excellent games with longevity in a collection & in tournaments.

Well then, I'm looking forward to the nuance Lyman will bring to KISS code updates (and the bug fixes). If you're correct, someone should tell IPDB Lonnie shouldn't be listed as a programmer on Metallica, too.

They are stored in a secret brown hole, and they pull them out when needed.

Where was it stated that he was doing the Kiss update? Between B'66 and the following release, he's had his hands full!

Back in one of the KISS threads after the most recent update in April. Don't remember who, but it was someone I don't doubt. And Lyman could executive produce the software revision without having to code every line, which is probably what's happening. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what the next KISS update brings.

I'm finally going to declare the sky is orange.

obv

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The idea of "oh you only saw the incomplete game" or " you haven't played it enough" or parroting is just people digging in and trying to find excuses to discredit people's opinions... All while having no idea how much the posters they are responding to have played the game.

Get over it... The game is in the wild and people have had plenty of time on the game... And a lot of people are not infatuated with it. It's not for not seeing enough of the game... That's their opinion from playing it. Truth

At noon.....

Now flip the coin over to see the other side.

I was at league night a week ago and host was having his game updated to latest code. Person who updated game started pointing out all the new strategy elements and new modes. Played it. Three people who thought game was crap now are impressed and in market for one. I'm one of the three.

Opinions are like a holes, we all have one. I'm just glad I'm open minded enough to have given the game another chance. Intrigued, we'll see.

Back on track... Any new updates on the all-new Batman pin from Stern?

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After Batman66, how about Green Hornet66? Fifty Years ago this week:

Classic. Calling for a Trump 50 years ago, LMAO.

Spiderman works very well in our location here in Norway. In our line-up of Spiderman, GoT, Hobbit, LOTR, Whitewater, AFM, Creature, SoF and Funhouse, its coinbox is almost always in the top-three. I believe Batman would be a hit here as well, since it was a staple on TV when many of the pinball crowd were kids. The rest of the titles I agree with you.

I think there is a difference between what is out there and the home collection market. If I see a GoT or Spidey out there, I will play it. Will I consider buying one, probably not, at the current price levels. Spidey VE is a great machine with beautifull colors, but you have to love the comic book theme. I have a 2010 Spiderman. Love the machine, call-outs and game. I've never read the comics....same with batman. But as the Batman 66 will be different from the darkknight version, I need to see how this is going to work.

I hope the cool atomic generator from the batcave makes its way to the playfield as a toy or even just a static figure. Also I hope the ramps are plastic as they would seem more suiting to the era like the bubble domes on the batmobile.

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really?

JJP is only building a pinball machine like Stern. there is no technical or conception revolutions in building their machine except the big LCD and it s that why Stern is coming too. JPP has been used as tester for Stern.

nobody is buying stern or JPP but a pinball machine with a theme, whatever the manufacturer is doing it.

i want a new star war pinball machine and i don't care who is building it.

so JPP won't shut down stern yet as long as they would only be able to built one pin in 2 or 3 years and the theme of their pin isn't worldwide known and "bandant".

Theres so many possibilities with this machine as far as toys and props. I hope Stern doesn't save all its bling for the LEs.

Absolutely.

I was actively working on re-theming a Gottlieb Haunted House into a 1966 Batman. The toys/props/call outs etc were far, far more than you could incorporate.

Just in my pin I was incorporating:
Batmobile
Batboat
Bat Cycle
Bat Copter
William Shakespear bust
red Bat Phone
Bat Poles
Bat Computer
Bat cave elements
The "Bat Whatever" labels on everything (Bat Right Flipper, Bat Left Flipper, etc)
"Gotham City 14 Miles" wooden sign
Batmobile license plates

Then you have 4 primary and about 10 secondary villains, 2 hot girls (Batgirl and Catwoman), other important cast members (Alfred the butler, Comm. Gordon, Chief O'Hara) and even Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson.

There is so much to work with in this pin and almost everything is instantly recognizable to even casual fans of the show.

23 pages .... any pictures yet or are we still arguing over what people think it will be?

Fault of Stern.......even when no revealing.

Wow I'd love to see some pics Mojo. I think the modders are gonna have a field day on this one. The Bat labels near the flipper and start buttons would be classic.

Pictures! We don't even have prices yet, wait for that, then you will see some good arguing

I just have a notebook.

The HH has 3 levels.
- The small upper play field was going to be the villains lair with the bad guys on the targets.
- main play field was going to be Gotham city with the various buildings and police headquarters.
- lower play field was (of course) going to be the bat cave.