(Topic ID: 167575)

Batman 66 by Stern new info


By GAP

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Bamatami
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There are 7100 posts in this topic. You are on page 111 of 142.
#5501 4 years ago
Quoted from hawkmoon:

Wow,Rare,you must enjoy that very much,to suggest it to others!You should't let your private activities out on a web site though!!

He didn't. I never see anything he says!

#5502 4 years ago
Quoted from He-Man40:

I think that is a really bad reason to not buy the game. How much of your other "recreational dollars" do you every get back. Going on vacation, out to a nice meal, concerts, luxury cars, and so much more. Some would say those are also a waste of money. It is fortunate that we can get most of our money back out of pinball machines when we sell them. You have probably spent $1500 on something that didn't give you as much enjoyment as pinball does. Just 5 years ago, most NIB purchases lost $500-$1000. Pinball is fun, enjoy it, and buy the game because you love the theme and love pinball. It's only money, you can make more.
Dino

You are right. I just spent a fortune to go to Desert trip in Palm Springs. It's recreational money. Just sent my deposit in. Thanks. You are the man!

#5503 4 years ago
Quoted from He-Man40:

I think that is a really bad reason to not buy the game. How much of your other "recreational dollars" do you every get back. Going on vacation, out to a nice meal, concerts, luxury cars, and so much more. Some would say those are also a waste of money. It is fortunate that we can get most of our money back out of pinball machines when we sell them. You have probably spent $1500 on something that didn't give you as much enjoyment as pinball does. Just 5 years ago, most NIB purchases lost $500-$1000. Pinball is fun, enjoy it, and buy the game because you love the theme and love pinball. It's only money, you can make more.
Dino

That's a great point.

I have football and hockey season tickets. At the end of the season I have $0.00 to show for my (very substantial) purchase. Buy a pin you like and a year later still have the bulk of the dollar value still there (if not all of it).

#5504 4 years ago

Passed on buying one of these today for 15k plus tax.

20161104_160624 (resized).jpg it just reinforces my opinion of Stern's "special pricing" model.

481636550bb017f0987dafb49031af1aa8127e74 (resized).jpg

#5505 4 years ago
Quoted from BackFlipper:

You are right. I just spent a fortune to go to Desert trip in Palm Springs. It's recreational money. Just sent my deposit in. Thanks. You are the man!

I think it depends on where you place value. I try not to think about the NIB pinball machine I could have bought with the money spent on a vacation.

To me, vacations create memories and it's hard to put a monetary value on that.

When it comes to physical things like pinball machines that can be bought NIB or used and compared to other pinball machines, I can't help but look at relative values and buy or not accordingly.

#5506 4 years ago
Quoted from BackFlipper:

You are right. I just spent a fortune to go to Desert trip in Palm Springs. It's recreational money. Just sent my deposit in. Thanks. You are the man!

Exactly!!!....if your pins fall into that category ( mine do), they are actually cheap in comparison. Ops that buy these as income making machines would rightfully have a different take.

I take the family on a cruise once a year, and sponsor ( heavily) a youth soccer club. Both cost FAR more than any pin I own, but wouldn't trade the " return on investment" for anything.

Enjoy life when you can...money just a vehicle to facilitate....

15
#5507 4 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Exactly!!!....if your pins fall into that category ( mine do), they are actually cheap in comparison. Ops that buy these as income making machines would rightfully have a different take.
I take the family on a cruise once a year, and sponsor ( heavily) a youth soccer club. Both cost FAR more than any pin I own, but wouldn't trade the " return on investment" for anything.
Enjoy life when you can...money just a vehicle to facilitate....

OMG, the levels some of you guys will go to to justify these prices...lets just go to $20k Pros, eh? It's only money...no bigs.

#5508 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

OMG, the levels some of you guys will go to to justify these prices...lets just go to $20k Pros, eh? It's only money...no bigs.

Why should it worry you how much we are willing to pay for a particular pinball machine? I get you might not want to spend that much but if I do, I certainly don't need to justify it to anyone other than my self. (and perhaps my wife)

#5509 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

OMG, the levels some of you guys will go to to justify these prices...lets just go to $20k Pros, eh? It's only money...no bigs.

No justification, just how I treat these things.....I don't pay more than anything is worth to me...." worth to me" being the operative....

#5510 4 years ago

You couldn't pay me to own a set of golf clubs......$5k for a putter? Some guys would fight to the death over it...no justifying that....just sayin' "price to play" has gone up everywhere, pinball no exception.....pick your poison....

#5511 4 years ago
Quoted from BackFlipper:

I'm not sure if anyone else is feeling this way, but I am thinking of bowing out of my Batman SLE. It's not the $15K that bothers me so much. It really is the extra $1500 I have to pay for state taxes here in Illinois. I would definitely keep this game for years, but if I ever decided to sell it, I would have a $1500 handicap against the entire market. Nobody else is going to pay that. I have to decide by tomorrow when my deposit is due. Any input would be appreciated.

Seriously? Because of the taxes?

#5512 4 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

No justification, just how I treat these things.....I don't pay more than anything is worth to me...." worth to me" being the operative....

Bud, never engage someone who ignores income and also tells you how to spend your money.

#5513 4 years ago
Quoted from dzoomer:

Bud, never engage someone who ignores income and also tells you how to spend your money.

True...just boring banter until the game shows anyway......Greg and I are way cool....wait...I think he called me one of " you guys"...that could be cold....

#5514 4 years ago

Here's something we can sarcastically speculate....I contacted my distributor today and told him I wanted the beacon and pin blade art installed on my LE by the factory...he said it would happen. What do you think that's going to add?

#5515 4 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Here's something we can sarcastically speculate....I contacted my distributor today and told him I wanted the beacon and pin blade art installed on my LE by the factory...he said it would happen. What do you think that's going to add?

$700...., but why not.

20
#5516 4 years ago

It's strange IMO to defend BM66 pricing with examples of other completely silly scenarios.

Golf clubs, license plates, luxury watches, fancy cars, crack cocaine, tulip bulbs....

How does one ridiculous price validate another ridiculous price?

When my wife says "dont eat an entire order of crab rangoon & drink 6 Blue Moons" I dont reply "Its OK some guy weighs 500 lbs in South Dakota" lol

#5517 4 years ago
Quoted from PW79:

It's strange IMO to defend BM66 pricing with examples of other completely silly scenarions.
Golf clubs, license plates, luxury watches, fancy cars, crack cocaine, tulip bulbs....
How does one ridiculous price validate another ridiculous price?
When my wife says "dont eat an entire order of crab rangoon & drink 6 Blue Moons" I dont reply "Its OK some guy weighs 500 lbs in South Dakota" lol

I'm not validating or justifying anything...simple comparisons...buy what you want, but overly inflated prices are not exclusive to pinball. I tire of higher prices period, but also tire of the never ending complaints. "We'll show them by not buying" nice thought....sort of like " if we stop snorting coke, they will stop smuggling it in"....demand there, product will be supplied. If pinball outprices its market, people won't buy them. But bitching won't change anything...please Stern, release some gameplay so the bitching can shift.

#5518 4 years ago
Quoted from pauloz:

Why should it worry you how much we are willing to pay for a particular pinball machine? I get you might not want to spend that much but if I do, I certainly don't need to justify it to anyone other than my self. (and perhaps my wife)

Because when people keep shelling out stupid money for new pins, it just encourages Stern to do it even more. I don't want to spend $8k for a new game that was going for $4k 8 years ago, common sense tells me that's just dumb. It doesn't matter though, people just line up more and more to pay ridiculous money, so they just keep jacking the prices as a result while a lot of us stay on the sidelines. Like for BM66, I understand that it's a grail theme for some, more power to them. I don't understand spending money on the SLE though, it offers almost nothing for the extra money. It will be exactly the same amount of fun as the other versions. When you go for something like that, you're no longer doing it for the actual game in my opinion.

-1
#5519 4 years ago

In a general sense, these games aren't worth their price, but in a personal sense, they could be, I guess. I almost understand heavy markups on LE/SLE/CE models in pinball, but for the Batman '66 premiums, it doesn't make any sense for them to be so out of line with traditional pricing. There's nothing extra (in fact, they're stripped down from a standard premium), there's no limit to production, and there's no special one off aspects to it that would drive up production price.

I don't like the pro/premium/LE model much. I have a pro (Tron), a premium (AC/DC), an LE (Ghostbusters), and some games before the pro/premium, LE splits (Spider-Man, Iron Man, TSPP). I think the move to the 3 models really hurt overall value in pinball. But if new revenue had to be found, I wish it was just standard and LE/CE, with no differences in gameplay or code. JJP has it right in that aspect, as does Spooky.

We're never going to unwind what's been done, but I'd love to see premiums disappear and Stern can do a standard and collector's edition. Pack bling into the CE and overcharge for it. Leave the standard to be on par in regards to play, but drop this three model stuff. Simplify the production lines, simplify code development, and speed up game development process overall.

#5521 4 years ago

Any word on gameplay yet?

#5522 4 years ago

The only response I got is that there are no game play videos and that "Game programmer Lyman is making sure it is perfect before the world sees it!"

The Nov 4th deadline for me to buy that SLE came and went, however I chose to hang on to my money. If I see game play thats epic and they are still willing to let me buy it I will buy the SLE, otherwise I'm OK with passing on the opportunity and will buy a premium if it's really that fantastic.

I'm new to pinball and have the money to indulge myself because I work hard and I deserve the reward. I am learning that there are just way too many cool things coming out that I will be able to test drive beforehand whether it be hands-on or video. All three of my Stern pins are pros not really missing out on what the other levels have to offer as far as I'm concerned.

I have room for a fourth pin and if I'm going to spend that kind of money I'm going to make sure I see it in its full glory before spending the money. Stern should be cautious because there are a lot of folks like me out there and not enough site unseen willing to pay anything for it types. I'm feeling very optimistic though about the introduction of other manufacturers like JJP, Highway and Spooky maybe there will be a shift in the market forcing competition which in turn will force quality and bring down those prices which would be great for everyone.

I guess we will see, in the mean time I'm going to continue shopping around for that fourth title..

#5524 4 years ago

I Like Anne Hathaway cat woman the best.

IMG_2519 (resized).JPG

#5525 4 years ago

So hot!! Wow

#5526 4 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

...for the Batman '66 premiums, it doesn't make any sense for them to be so out of line with traditional pricing. There's nothing extra (in fact, they're stripped down from a standard premium), there's no limit to production, and there's no special one off aspects to it that would drive up production price.

Maybe people are underestimating the licensing cost. Batman66 probably isn't cheap and there is also the "cut" that goes to Kapow pinball. The Batman66 based slot machine had a lot less villains than the Stern game does. It didn't have Penguin or the second tier villains like Bookworm, Shame, Egghead, etc. Since the Stern version has all these extra villains maybe the licensing cost went even higher than what it was for the slot machine.

Quoted from jar155:

I wish it was just standard and LE/CE, with no differences in gameplay or code. JJP has it right in that aspect, as does Spooky.
We're never going to unwind what's been done, but I'd love to see premiums disappear and Stern can do a standard and collector's edition. Pack bling into the CE and overcharge for it. Leave the standard to be on par in regards to play, but drop this three model stuff. Simplify the production lines, simplify code development, and speed up game development process overall.

Isn't this pretty much what has happened with Batman66? At the factory tour George really emphasized that the base playfield is the same for all 3 models and the code would be the same for all three models. All the extra money buys you is some cosmetic enhancements and some exclusivity via the numbered editions. This is what an LE and SLE should be in my opinion.

Some people balk at the price increase for LE and SLE because they think they deserve more actual value (features, toys, enhanced gameplay etc) for the LE/SLE versions. I think its better to have the extra money just be for bling and a limited number only. The collectors with lots of money to burn will still pay up for that and it makes the multiple models much easier to manage if the game layout and code is the same for all of them.

I think we should give Stern some credit from saying that some of the LE/SLE features will also be available for separate purchase like the art blades and the bat signal projector. This allows customers to buy the lower priced model and still enhance it later if they want to bling it out a little.

I like how they approached the Spiderman Black and Elvis Gold limited editions. Same exact game play just revised art, backglass, trim etc. Lets hope they adopt this approach going forward with future games.

#5527 4 years ago
Quoted from docquest:

I think we should give Stern some credit from saying that some of the LE/SLE features will also be available for separate purchase like the art blades and the bat signal projector. This allows customers to buy the lower priced model and still enhance it later if they want to bling it out a little.

Not when they're using off the shelf trinkets that can be had for a few bucks at Walmart. It's pretty scummy, actually.

#5528 4 years ago

Still hoping SLE has extra gameplay code

#5529 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I Like Anne Hathaway cat woman the best.

Well, when you out it this way (the photo I mean)...I might agree!

#5530 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

Still hoping SLE has extra gameplay code

Have on several occasions said this is not the case. The play fields are identical.

#5531 4 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

Not when they're using off the shelf trinkets that can be had for a few bucks at Walmart. It's pretty scummy, actually.

The stern accessories that will be available for sale by Stern are the topper mounted batsignal projector and the inner art blades.

I think you are confusing the topper mounted projector with the batsignal thing on the SLE playfield (that is a $5 trinket).

The topper mounted projector looks custom made. It has an omni directional mount and a focusing lens in front to adjust size/position of the signal.

The art blades look nice and definitiely arent an off the shelf piece. Im sure some of the other pinball vendors will make a non licensed version of them though.

Im happy Stern is offering them for sale vs saying its just an LE/SLE only item.

#5532 4 years ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

Have on several occasions said this is not the case. The play fields are identical.

If I had a $100 bill everytime Stern has said one thing but did another......I still wouldn't be able to afford a Batman66.

(kidding...I am in on BM66)

#5533 4 years ago
Quoted from docquest:

Im happy Stern is offering them for sale vs saying its just an LE/SLE only item.

This is not a favor to you. It devalues the LE/SLE features while they can squeeze a few more bucks out of the premium buyers.

#5534 4 years ago

Kapows "cut" is not increasing costs IMO

Whatever Stern paid Kapow is likley less than what Stern would spend on making their own animations, sounds & art.

Kapow just resold some shit to Stern they already sold once before so odds are Stern got a deal.

Disclaimer: I'm just making shit up like the rest of you.

#5535 4 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

I don't like the pro/premium/LE model much.

I didn't at first, but now I like having the choices. Look no further than BM66 to see what would happen if the Pro model went away. Or, if the Premium went away, we could go back to bare games. I suspect that people who buy the LEs for the extra $$ sort of subsidize keeping a Pro model available and at recent costs. I also have no problem with a small number of people buying the SLEs. If they can afford an SLE then they can go for it. I generally prefer the LE or Premium models myself.

#5536 4 years ago
Quoted from PW79:

Kapows "cut" is not increasing costs IMO
Whatever Stern paid Kapow is likley less than what Stern would spend on making their own animations, sounds & art.
Kapow just resold some shit to Stern they already sold once before so odds are Stern got a deal.
Disclaimer: I'm just making shit up like the rest of you.

Just in the attract mode screens that have been shown so far there are lots of clips that were never in the slot machine so its not all recycled stuff. Even clips that were in the original slot machine would need to be re-processed to fit he Stern displays (the big one and the small ome) for size, resolution, and aspect ratio. If there really are thousands of clips (as claimed at expo) thats a lot of work.

I donr see how it can't cost more than a usual license because in addition to the main licensee, Warner Bros, there is also a middleman thats not usually there, ie Kapow pinball.

#5537 4 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

This is not a favor to you. It devalues the LE/SLE features while they can squeeze a few more bucks out of the premium buyers.

I see it as a favor since there will be a lot more premium buyers than the LE/SLE buyers. They arent squeezing more money out of people if its an optional purchase. If people want to buy it they will, if they dont' think its worth it then they wont.

The projector is a pretty cool gimmick so I think it will sell well as an accessory. Owners of one of the three previous batman machines might get one. Some people might put it in their gameroom even if they dont have a batman game just because it looks cool.

In my opinion, I dont believe it devalues the LE/SLE at all. If the signal projector was standard on all 3 models they still would have sold 80 SLE's and 240 LE's no problem.

#5538 4 years ago
Quoted from taz:

Look no further than BM66 to see what would happen if the Pro model went away.

I agree. I always found it odd when people would say that Stern should drop the Pros because they don't want a stripped game on the market. All you've done is removed that price tier completely. The Premium will not be offered at a Pro price.

The only game I can think of at a Pro price not made by Stern is Dominos. No other competitors are offering Pro pricing either. So if Stern got rid of the Pros, then buh-bye to ~$5k nib pinball.

#5539 4 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

Because when people keep shelling out stupid money for new pins, it just encourages Stern to do it even more. I don't want to spend $8k for a new game that was going for $4k 8 years ago, common sense tells me that's just dumb. It doesn't matter though, people just line up more and more to pay ridiculous money, so they just keep jacking the prices as a result while a lot of us stay on the sidelines. Like for BM66, I understand that it's a grail theme for some, more power to them. I don't understand spending money on the SLE though, it offers almost nothing for the extra money. It will be exactly the same amount of fun as the other versions. When you go for something like that, you're no longer doing it for the actual game in my opinion.

None of what you have said is any reason why I should justify to you how I spend MY money.

-1
#5540 4 years ago
Quoted from taz:

I suspect that people who buy the LEs for the extra $$ sort of subsidize keeping a Pro model available and at recent costs.

No.

#5541 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I agree. I always found it odd when people would say that Stern should drop the Pros because they don't want a stripped game on the market. All you've done is removed that price tier completely. The Premium will not be offered at a Pro price.

Exactly. I've said this many times myself, it just doesn't make sense that people actually want *fewer* choices instead of more.

Apparently the assumption is that if one of the versions is cut, that will mean that one of the other versions will either be cheaper, or have more features on it.

Neither assumption has any merit. As far as I'm concerned, having more options (3 game tiers) is a good thing, not something to be criticized.

If an LE is too much for what you get, but you want all the PF features, get the premium. If the premium is too much money, get the pro. If the pro is missing too much compared to the premium, take a pass.

The entitlement mentality has been strong here lately.

-2
#5542 4 years ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

Have on several occasions said this is not the case. The play fields are identical.

Ya and who are you

19
#5543 4 years ago
Quoted from pauloz:

None of what you have said is any reason why I should justify to you how I spend MY money.

Absolutely.

Can we stop with the bashing of those Pinsider's who have made the decision to buy a BM66 SLE (or LE even)? I mean seriously, just because the price might be too high for you doesn't justify telling another Pinsider that they are "dumb" for taking the plunge on a pin that they are obviously as excited as hell about buying.

Nothing like public shaming of fellow Pinsider's who are excited about buying a new pin just because it costs more than you (or even the majority of Pinsiders) think it is worth.

#5544 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

The entitlement mentality has been strong here lately.

I want my MTV.

#5545 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I want my MTV.

#5546 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

Still hoping SLE has extra gameplay code

Quoted from NeilMcRae:

Have on several occasions said this is not the case. The play fields are identical.

Well they said the SLE buyers get a personalized phone call from Batman himself. So I guess that would count as custom gamecode for the SLE? Still not sure how that feature is gonna work.

phone (resized).JPG

#5547 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Absolutely.
Can we stop with the bashing of those Pinsider's who have made the decision to buy a BM66 SLE (or LE even)? I mean seriously, just because the price might be too high for you doesn't justify telling another Pinsider that they are "dumb" for taking the plunge on a pin that they are obviously as excited as hell about buying.
Nothing like public shaming of fellow Pinsider's who are excited about buying a new pin just because it costs more than you (or even the majority of Pinsiders) think it is worth.

Completely agree, and thanks Rob for posting it. It never ceases to amaze me on the amount of venom on every aspect of every pin that goes on here ( supposedly a site for " enthusiasts").

Entitlement mentality on this site is getting pathetic. Hell, I wouldn't even care if particular version of a pin had FEATURES that were different ( that would DEFINITELY warrant a pricing change) What is so wrong with choices, differences, and hoping a Pinsider gets what they want?

#5548 4 years ago

I get the feeling some of the members here would only have nothing to complain about if no new pinball machines were announced.

#5549 4 years ago
Quoted from taz:

I didn't at first, but now I like having the choices. Look no further than BM66 to see what would happen if the Pro model went away. Or, if the Premium went away, we could go back to bare games. I suspect that people who buy the LEs for the extra $$ sort of subsidize keeping a Pro model available and at recent costs. I also have no problem with a small number of people buying the SLEs. If they can afford an SLE then they can go for it. I generally prefer the LE or Premium models myself.

The way Stern handles the pro/premium/LE differences is messed up though. Having different gameplay features is bad for both the buyer and the manufacturer in lots of ways. Differences should be at the features (art, limited numbers, trim, etc.) level and not at the gameplay/code level.

Here's why: http://www.thepinballpodcast.com/2016/11/05/a-better-approach-to-pro-premium-and-le-models-in-pinball/

tl;dr - different gameplay features creates inefficiency in game production (manufacturing, assembly, and coding), lesser attention to unique aspects of a game, and we get a compromised version of the designer's original intent.

There's room in the market for 3 levels of machines per release, but the gameplay features should be the same.

#5550 4 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

There's room in the market for 3 levels of machines per release, but the gameplay features should be the same.

And which version should they all be the same as?

The pro? The LE?

Which is the "correct" version?

There are pros that play better than the LE, and there are LE's that play better than the pro.

One advantage to having different game play features is that Stern is able to sell the pro for quite a bit less money than an LE. JJP basically has the model that you are talking about (all gameplay features are the same) but their "standard" version isn't as cheap as Stern's standard (pro) version.

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