(Topic ID: 269346)

Basement find EMs Royal Guard and Spanish Eyes - A rebuild log


By FatPanda

49 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 70 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 days ago by FatPanda
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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There are 70 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 22 days ago

So project #2 has been slow going to say the least. I got it up on legs, took out the playfield, and started checking fuses. I need to take out the relay board and go over it with some kind of cleaning method. I've been debating taking a toothbrush dipped in simple green and brushing all the parts, the rinsing it with cups of water, and drying it with an air gun, or using the same method with 91% isoproyl and drying it with an airgun. Same with the board in the backbox.

Just need to find time and motivation (this being the key) to do it.

Also found a crispy Lock relay that will need to get replaced. Found one on ebay after searching the usual places. And looking into getting translights printed to replace the backglass, but this is probably the last thing, if at all, that gets done. Need to get it running first then decide what to do with the cab.

#52 21 days ago

You don't want to try the brake cleaner method, huh?

#53 21 days ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

You don't want to try the brake cleaner method, huh?

I'm not sure. On the one hand, I do, because everything in the backbox has some spray something on it, like everything, and everything is incredibly seized. On the other hand, I thought about taking each unit apart 1 by 1 to get things cleaned. They will need to be resleeved also. So just weighing my options.

#54 21 days ago

It's pretty bad. The pics cant capture the residue on everything.

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#55 21 days ago

For sure all the steppers and score reels need to be individually torn down, cleaned, repaired if necessary, and reassembled.
I'm saying you use the brake cleaner just to degunk the motor board if it's really greasy dirty.
Always relubricate the motor and other moving metal parts afterwards.

#56 18 days ago

This shit is everywhere! Anything that has dried out has completely seized the units. Thankfully, isopropyl alcohol eats it up. Its not shiny after its clean, but it moves freely.

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#57 17 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

This shit is everywhere! Anything that has dried out has completely seized the units. Thankfully, isopropyl alcohol eats it up. Its not shiny after its clean, but it moves freely.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Ugh

#58 17 days ago

Looks like you have a good amount of rust going on there too. You should order new springs for all the steppers from PBR. Everything else should get an EvapoRust bath.

#59 17 days ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Looks like you have a good amount of rust going on there too. You should order new springs for all the steppers from PBR. Everything else should get an EvapoRust bath.

I'm not too worried about the rust. It's a beater of a game and all the parts are solid. Nothing is flaking off or anything. Honestly, even the springs are ok. Some of the tension is lost, but I trimmed them down to get the proper tension back. Even the clock spring still had good tension. My main goal is to get the game running first, then playing well, second. If those two things can happen with minimal dollars, I'll be happy.

#60 16 days ago

Powered it on for the first time last night and it starts and ends a game. That makes things a bit easier. Lots of dirty switches. None of the pops fire, so I'll have to see if there's a fuse that goes to those solenoids. Flippers work and scoring works. Ball count counts down properly as well.

#61 12 days ago

So I've got all of the units in the backbox clean. The switches all gone through with 600 grit sandpaper, all wires attached to the correct lugs. Someone at some point disconnected the wires to the chimes in the cabinet, that took a minute to figure out, especially since all the wires are brown/black from the bottle of motor oil they poured on everything. All of the solenoids and plungers now have crisp action.

I didn't notice this the first time I turned on the game, but notice it now. The 10 point relay in the backbox is locking on, which in turn locks on a coil in the match unit (the one attached to the bell ringer). Per the manual, the 10 point relay is actuated by the stand ups, some rolloever switches and the pop bumpers (specifically by a switch in the "On Bumper" relay. A switch in the 10 point relay steps up the Match Unit (Sw. C15). In searching for any closed switches indicated by the manual, I've gone over each of the components and have not found anything closed, no lugs touching, no solder splash that I can see. I'm sure that if I can resolve this issue, it will take care of the Match Unit coil locking on as well.

Thoughts?

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#62 11 days ago

Worked out the pop bumpers, so pretty much have most things working now. Rollover switches sometimes get stuck closed, and the 10 pt relay locking on is intermittent during play; probably vibrations and what not making switches stick? At this point, it's working well enough to order parts and start rebuilding things. Hopefully through that, the switch issues go away.

Also, anybody know what this is? This is from the chime unit in the cabinet. The knocker right next to it was the same. It looks like someone took a lighter to the rubber grommet that used to be there and melted to the point where when it cooled, it fused the plunger so the knocker and chime wouldn't ring. Also had the wires for the chimes detached from the relay lug, so it seems pretty intentional. The Jones plug for the knocker and chime was literally right there too. Could've spent the 2 seconds to unplug it.

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#63 11 days ago

My guess is the rubber grommet melted out if you will over the years..

#64 11 days ago
Quoted from chad:

My guess is the rubber grommet melted out if you will over the years..

Wouldn't it have just dried out and crumbled like all other rubber used at the time? Well, whatever the case, it's all cleaned now and the chime in the cabinet rings

#65 11 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

Wouldn't it have just dried out and crumbled like all other rubber used at the time? Well, whatever the case, it's all cleaned now and the chime in the cabinet rings

Yes, I have seen them basically turn to dust as well. Good to see you moving along without any major hangups.

#66 10 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

Worked out the pop bumpers, so pretty much have most things working now. Rollover switches sometimes get stuck closed, and the 10 pt relay locking on is intermittent during play; probably vibrations and what not making switches stick? At this point, it's working well enough to order parts and start rebuilding things. Hopefully through that, the switch issues go away.
Also, anybody know what this is? This is from the chime unit in the cabinet. The knocker right next to it was the same. It looks like someone took a lighter to the rubber grommet that used to be there and melted to the point where when it cooled, it fused the plunger so the knocker and chime wouldn't ring. Also had the wires for the chimes detached from the relay lug, so it seems pretty intentional. The Jones plug for the knocker and chime was literally right there too. Could've spent the 2 seconds to unplug it.
[quoted image][quoted image]

That's just freakin' incredible! I've never seen anything that bad in a game, and that's sayin' a lot!

#67 10 days ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

That's just freakin' incredible! I've never seen anything that bad in a game, and that's sayin' a lot!

I posted the same pictures to facebook and one of the comments was that "it's normal, it happens." I'm not sure what would cause it to happen, but I found it hard to believe

Worked out the stuck 10 pt relay. It was behaving quite strangely but I tracked it down to a pop bumper where it would display the problem with the playfield in the down position, but not in the up position. I'm sure it was quite the spectacle seeing me continuously move the playfield several inches up and down and get points

Seems like everything is working

Hopefully my PBR order comes before the weekend so I can get things rebuilt. Still not sure what to do with the cabinet yet....

#68 10 days ago

Regarding the stuck 10 point relay. Beyond the obvious culprits, I have had more than a couple instances where a problem like that is a short in the wiring loom. Sometimes the loom in back of the playfield may rest against a sharp edge. With many years of raising and lowering the playfield that edge can rub the harness and cause bare wires. They may touch and short in one position but raising or lowering changes it and the short goes away. Easy to fix if you can find it.

One of my Teacher's Pets would always spot a letter at start of game. Eventually I found it to be exactly what I described. It may not always be an obvious thing to troubleshoot as a problem like this can be intermittent.

#69 10 days ago
Quoted from AlexF:

Regarding the stuck 10 point relay. Beyond the obvious culprits, I have had more than a couple instances where a problem like that is a short in the wiring loom. Sometimes the loom in back of the playfield may rest against a sharp edge. With many years of raising and lowering the playfield that edge can rub the harness and cause bare wires. They may touch and short in one position but raising or lowering changes it and the short goes away. Easy to fix if you can find it.
One of my Teacher's Pets would always spot a letter at start of game. Eventually I found it to be exactly what I described. It may not always be an obvious thing to troubleshoot as a problem like this can be intermittent.

That thought had occurred to me to, obviously, it can be something that's hard to try to find, the proverbial needle in a haystack. As I was trying to troubleshoot it first, I had the playfield down, and messing with the switches above the playfield. I found that the top middle pop caused it to lock on, which was odd, since that pop scores 100 pts. But after it locked on, I would switch another pop and it would go off. This lead me to lift it up and test the pops in the upright position to see what was going on and I found that the pops would behave like normal, no relay locking on. I believe it was the center pop between the flippers that was the culprit. I'm not sure 100% what was causing it in lowered vs raised, but it was very clear that if I lowered it, I would cause 10 pts to score, and the relay would lock. If I lifted it just a little bit, the relay would release.

#70 4 days ago

More progress. Got my parts order in over the weekend, and rebuilt the flippers and the pops. More mystery goop on every one of the mechs. Got them cleaned and rebuilt and she plays nice and snappy now! Added comet LEDs in sunlight as well. So at this point, it pretty much plays 100% Feels good to bring a game back.

Next thing to chase is backbox lights. Not a single light is on, so I'm not sure if there's a "bigger" problem or if the bulbs are all just burnt out. I hate taking the backglass off though because every time I handle it, chips of paint fall off. I'm likely going to go the translight route, but still...

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There are 70 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

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