(Topic ID: 252891)

Barracora lock problem


By FLASHBALL

14 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 20 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 days ago by BRW84
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 14 days ago

The hunt continues, tonight I decided to play while video recording to catch the problem in action. I finally caught the issue. If I start a 2 ball multiball from the lower lock, when only one ball drains it thinks the players turn is over and counts down bonus and changes to the next player.

Then, when trying to replicate this issue. I found that sometimes when I lock a ball in the lower lock and it kicks out another ball... for some reason the locked ball wont release. But after I drain, then the locked ball releases and continues the same players turn just like a locked ballsave.

Also, possibly related... I dont think the gate for the upper lock is working properly. I feel like its often down when its supposed to be up.

Video of my problem in action here:

Thanks for any suggestions.

#2 14 days ago

as others suggested in the other thread this could easily be a trough switch issue, if you are thinking diodes are at fault, they are cheap, just replace the ones you suspect in lieu of testing them repeatedly with suspect results, really to get the switches and harness ruled out you have to put it into switch test mode, pull the two connectors 2J2 & 2J3 and perform the switch tests manually with a jumper looking for any errors, if there are errors found its an mpu issue - prolly pia or gate, if no anomalies are found its in the playfield/wiring/switches

#3 13 days ago
Quoted from creepykenny:

really to get the switches and harness ruled out you have to put it into switch test mode, pull the two connectors 2J2 & 2J3 and perform the switch tests manually with a jumper

I dont have a manual with schematics. IPDB only had the operators handbook. Can you point me in the direction of a link to the full manual? Or maybe just a photo circling these connectors? I dont see the connector numbers on the board like my sys11 games have.

Found a broken capacitor also. Its from the right sling. That wouldn't cause funky issues in the trough.... right?
20191005_004037 (resized).jpg

#4 13 days ago

Sorry old info I had.

#5 13 days ago

I would make sure the upper gate for the lock is working properly. I struggled with numerous multiball issues on my Barracora similar to your second issue, until I fixed the upper gate. It was like the machine was confused about the game state and did all kinds of weird things to compensate. Haven't had any issues since I fixed the upper gate.

#6 13 days ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

The hunt continues, tonight I decided to play while video recording to catch the problem in action. I finally caught the issue. If I start a 2 ball multiball from the lower lock, when only one ball drains it thinks the players turn is over and counts down bonus and changes to the next player.
Then, when trying to replicate this issue. I found that sometimes when I lock a ball in the lower lock and it kicks out another ball... for some reason the locked ball wont release. But after I drain, then the locked ball releases and continues the same players turn just like a locked ballsave.
Also, possibly related... I dont think the gate for the upper lock is working properly. I feel like its often down when its supposed to be up.
Video of my problem in action here:

Thanks for any suggestions.

Displays show 2's confirming multiball however when one drains cancels both:
Suspect corrupt cmos ram, perform a reset remove batteries/clear cmos
Retest game.

#7 13 days ago

mman23 I was wondering if that could be the case. Can you tell for for sure when the gate should be up/down? Is it only when the bonus or lock is lit? Or should it be open in between the lights and only closed during ball launch until a switch is engaged?

#8 13 days ago

I believe the gate should only be open when the bonus collect or lock is lit. My mechanism was sticky and wasn't consistently opening/closing. Changed the spring and cleaned up the mechanism to correct. I never had the player advance issue you are experiencing, but I also never played multi-player games while the game was malfunctioning. You may have two separate issues going on. I would fix the gate first and go from there.

#9 13 days ago

I will try removing the button battery and turning off the game, then clean up the gate and solenoid assembly. Then reinstall battery and report back later.

#10 13 days ago

I believe we are onto something with the cmosram. This MPU appears to have previous acid damage that someone has tried to clean up.

I did the hard reset and removed battery, afterwards for the first game or two everything worked properly. Two ball multiball and three ball multiball. Then as I continued observing mid game I heard the *clink* and the gate fell down when it wasnt supposed to be down. Then manually I tried the two ball multiball and same scenario. Locked one, start two ball multi, ball didnt kick out, then drain and immediately the ball kicks out.

Went into solenoid test and the gate works flawlessly every time. It's not sticky or hanging up at all.

Conclusion: when the gate is up, game works properly. When gate is down, and shouldnt be, game works funky.
20191007_000149 (resized).jpg

#11 13 days ago

from some random manual I had laying around

pasted_image (resized).png
#12 13 days ago
Quoted from mman23:

I believe the gate should only be open when the bonus collect or lock is lit. My mechanism was sticky and wasn't consistently opening/closing. Changed the spring and cleaned up the mechanism to correct. I never had the player advance issue you are experiencing, but I also never played multi-player games while the game was malfunctioning. You may have two separate issues going on. I would fix the gate first and go from there.

The upper gate is only closed for about five seconds when you first launch the ball; it's controlled by the rollover in the shooter lane, and the delay prevents you from launching the ball straight into the lit lock. It should remain open throughout the game, and you can shoot the lock whether it's lit or not. Not sure if it matters, but I had a few issues with multiball when I first got my Barracora, and it all tied back to the shooter lane rollover.

#13 12 days ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

I believe we are onto something with the cmosram. This MPU appears to have previous acid damage that someone has tried to clean up.
I did the hard reset and removed battery, afterwards for the first game or two everything worked properly. Two ball multiball and three ball multiball. Then as I continued observing mid game I heard the *clink* and the gate fell down when it wasnt supposed to be down. Then manually I tried the two ball multiball and same scenario. Locked one, start two ball multi, ball didnt kick out, then drain and immediately the ball kicks out.
Went into solenoid test and the gate works flawlessly every time. It's not sticky or hanging up at all.
Conclusion: when the gate is up, game works properly. When gate is down, and shouldnt be, game works funky.
[quoted image]

Same problem after cmos reset:
suspect program is seeing a stuck switch.
Place game into switch test remove all balls.
check for stuck switches by gently pounding on the playfield to simulate game play vibration.

#14 12 days ago

Update: Tonight I cleaned up the shooter lane rollover switch. It wasnt that dirty but I cleaned it anyway. Switch test showed it is registering every time with a ball in the lane.

While I had the playfield up I was casually looking around and noticed that the brown/black wire had broken off of the BARR drop target bank release coil. Soldered it back onto the coil lug and started testing again.

No idea how, but the gate performance was flawless tonight. Gate was always up 5 seconds or so after the ball leaves the shooter lane. The locks worked flawlessly and so did the player to player scoring when draining balls.

Im going to do some more extensive testing and keep a close eye on the gate positioning. But for 1.5 solid hours tonight this issue seemed to be resolved.

Will update in a few weeks to see if the problem returns. At least now I know, if the gate is down (and I didnt just release the ball) then the game is gonna act wierd.

Thanks BRW84 for advising me how the gate should behave during gameplay.

#15 12 days ago

Glad I could help!

#16 10 days ago
Quoted from BRW84:

Glad I could help!

BRW84 Would you mind doing me a favor? Can you simulate my old problem with the glass off on your game and tell me what happens?

Start 2 players, lock a ball in lower lock, then when the next ball shoots out dont allow it to hit the shooter lane switch and go ahead and see if multiball will start or not. Then observe what happens when you drain only one ball.

Does multiball start? Does draining one ball switch game to the next player?

As shown in my video previously. The issue was that it would start multiball but when one drained this ended the players turn and moved to the next player with a ball still on the field.

Now when I sumulate the old issue it wont unlock the locked ball until the first one drains, and then the game stays on the same players turn for the other ball.

#17 9 days ago

Sure thing! I'll give it a shot this evening and report back.

#18 8 days ago

flashball
Just tried it out. When I locked a ball in the lower lock and then it kicked out the next ball into the shooter lane, it never released the locked ball if the shooter lane rollover wasn't triggered. However, when the second ball drained, it immediately kicked out the locked ball and allowed me to continue as the same player. It didn't switch over to player two until I'd drained both balls. In conclusion, the mystery deepens...

#19 8 days ago
Quoted from BRW84:

flashball
Just tried it out. When I locked a ball in the lower lock and then it kicked out the next ball into the shooter lane, it never released the locked ball if the shooter lane rollover wasn't triggered. However, when the second ball drained, it immediately kicked out the locked ball and allowed me to continue as the same player. It didn't switch over to player two until I'd drained both balls. In conclusion, the mystery deepens...

Thats exactly what mine is doing now. I just dont understand why originally it was switching to the next player. Or why I havent been able to simulate the player switch again.

Wierd.

#20 7 days ago

After about two years of trying my hand at pinball repair, I'm convinced most machines are at least mildly haunted.

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