(Topic ID: 192227)

Barb Wire switch problem


By Don44

1 year ago



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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Don44
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#1 1 year ago

I recently got a barb wire and everything was working. I switched all the bulbs to led and now the coin door open switch and start button switch do not work. The coin credit switches do not work as well but not sure if they worked previously. I am unable to start a game. I have tried to put it in tournament mode to put it on free play but I cant. The solenoids are not firing but I am thinking that is because the coin door switch must be open. Any ideas what might be going on? Also the shoot again lamp is not working and from the research I did on pinwiki the switch matrix and lamp matrix share the same strobe lines. Not sure what to look at next. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

#2 1 year ago

Anybody know anything about system 3's bump?

#3 1 year ago

It sounds like you have multiple lamps and switches out. As you already know, Sys 3 lamps and switches share strobes in the switch matrix. Can you confirm whether all of the switches and lamps in the strobe are not working?

If the entire strobe is out, the transistors on the driver board or the resistors on the diode board under the playfield may have issues. Otherwise, look for a lamp in the affected strobe that may be shorting out on a nearby component.

Hope that helps.

#4 1 year ago

I checked all the transistors on the driver board and give good readings. Basically I can't get into tournament mode when I power up so I can't put on free play and not able to add credits with the switch on the coin door. Is there another way to add credits through the test menu? I do not have a manual and none for barb wire online so not sure if strobes are in the same row. I switched out the socket on the shoot again lamp and it still does not work. It strobes dimly when there is an led in it. I should point that the problem of not getting it into tournament mode started when I switched it off tournament mode in order to get into test mode. I am also not sure if the coin door open switch worked or not previously.

#5 1 year ago

I found the following in Clay's system repair guide and its the exact same problem I have. Can anybody tell me what diode needs to be replaced on this board?

In one game I worked on, the coin switches, start button, front door, and tournament buttons did not work. These are all in strobe0 (row0) of the switch matrix. The driver board Q33 mosFet tested fine too. This was a 400 color (yellow,black,black) wire. Even though it only services switches in the front door area of the game, the y/bk/bk wire went to the playfield. This is because the wire then goes to 8 lamps in the lamp matrix, all using strobe0. Now the wire daisy chains from the lamps to a small 2"x2" circuit board mounted under the playfield. This board contains all the 1N4148 (or 1N914) diodes for the switches. And the strobe0 line goes through a 220 ohm resistor mounted on this board. Finally the wire changes color (to grn/grn/grn for strobe0 in this example), and then goes out of the playfield, and to the coin door area (in this case).

The reason why none of the eight Strobe0 switches worked was because the small 1/4 watt 220 ohm switch matrix resistor mounted on the small 2"x2" diode board had burned up. Replacing the resistor fixed the switch matrix problem, and the game worked. This is probably the extent to which you will have switch matrix problems on a Gottlieb system3 game.

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#6 1 year ago
Quoted from Don44:

I found the following in Clay's system repair guide and its the exact same problem I have. Can anybody tell me what diode needs to be replaced on this board?
In one game I worked on, the coin switches, start button, front door, and tournament buttons did not work. These are all in strobe0 (row0) of the switch matrix. The driver board Q33 mosFet tested fine too. This was a 400 color (yellow,black,black) wire. Even though it only services switches in the front door area of the game, the y/bk/bk wire went to the playfield. This is because the wire then goes to 8 lamps in the lamp matrix, all using strobe0. Now the wire daisy chains from the lamps to a small 2"x2" circuit board mounted under the playfield. This board contains all the 1N4148 (or 1N914) diodes for the switches. And the strobe0 line goes through a 220 ohm resistor mounted on this board. Finally the wire changes color (to grn/grn/grn for strobe0 in this example), and then goes out of the playfield, and to the coin door area (in this case).
The reason why none of the eight Strobe0 switches worked was because the small 1/4 watt 220 ohm switch matrix resistor mounted on the small 2"x2" diode board had burned up. Replacing the resistor fixed the switch matrix problem, and the game worked. This is probably the extent to which you will have switch matrix problems on a Gottlieb system3 game.

Yes, that is what I meant when I suggested checking the diode board under the playfield.

Not sure which one you need to replace exactly so it's better you just check them individually until you find the broken one.

#7 1 year ago

I forgot to mention that I had checked all the diodes on that board as well as the Q33 transistor and all checked out.

#8 1 year ago

I ordered some of the 220 ohm switch resistors and going to replace them on the diode board. All 4 measured 220 in diode test mode but it has to be one of those. They were 10 for $5.70 shipping included on Amazon prime which I have used in the past to get a few parts fast, sometimes comes the next day.

#9 1 year ago

Check for a broken wire on a switch under the playfield.
I had a similar thing happen with stargate. You likely pulled one off when installing new bulbs.

#10 1 year ago

No broken wires, at least that I can see. My problems started from me turning off tournament mode. I replaced all the bulbs after the switches stopped working. I got those 220 ohm switch resistors to replace on the diode board and going to give that a go when I get home today. Like I said all tested as working when I tested with a dmm so anybody know which switch resistor is associated with the 0 strobe line?

#11 1 year ago

I wound up replacing all of the switch resistors and that was not the problem. Can anybody post a pic of the lamp/switch matrix diagram for me please?

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from Don44:

I wound up replacing all of the switch resistors and that was not the problem. Can anybody post a pic of the lamp/switch matrix diagram for me please?

There was no reason to do this as you said all of the resistors were working. What made you replace them all?

You have said you have checked all of the lamp wires are intact so let's assume the wiring is not the issue.

First thing you need to do is get a copy of the manual. You won't be able to troubleshoot without one.

I don't have a Barb Wire manual but am going off my Tee'd Off manual.

Switch strobe 0 consists of left, right and centre coin chutes, credit button, tournament button, and front door (service button). You have indicated that at least some of these switches do not work.

Can you confirm if any others in that strobe work?

Lamp strobe 0 consists of shoot (golf) again, credit button, cardholder, and lamps in the apron. The apron lamps are SKINS in the case of Tee'd Off. I'm not sure what they would be on Barb Wire. (This is why you need a manual.)

Can you confirm if any of those lamps are working?

If none of the above switches or lamps are working, then suspect Q33 on the driver board. You indicated that you tested this - did you test it in or out of circuit? It will not test properly in circuit. Also note that System 3 use MOSFETs instead of standard transistors. They are tested differently to TIP transistors in WPC games.

I would replace Q33 as a first step and then we can troubleshoot further from there. But I suspect Q33 is the problem.

#13 1 year ago

I wound up finding a switch matrix diagram on pinitech and all of switch strobe 0 is out. All other switches work. Also, shoot again lamp does not work but all other lamps work. When I tested Q33, the board was out and unplugged. Is this what you mean by out of circuit and do I test the same way I would on a wpc game?

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from Don44:

I wound up finding a switch matrix diagram on pinitech and all of switch strobe 0 is out. All other switches work. Also, shoot again lamp does not work but all other lamps work. When I tested Q33, the board was out and unplugged. Is this what you mean by out of circuit and do I test the same way I would on a wpc game?

By out of circuit, I mean the MOSFET has to be removed from the board itself.

There are heaps of videos on Youtube that describe testing MOSFETs. The Q33-45 MOSFETs are P-channels. Here is a video showing how to test them:

#15 1 year ago

The transistors Q33 to 45 were all measuring .598 but when I removed Q33 it was measuring .335. Hopefully that is the culprit. Only thing that makes me worry is that shoot again does not work but credit button light does. There aren't any apron lights on barb wire.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from Don44:

The transistors Q33 to 45 were all measuring .598 but when I removed Q33 it was measuring .335. Hopefully that is the culprit. Only thing that makes me worry is that shoot again does not work but credit button light does. There aren't any apron lights on barb wire.

Not sure if the credit button is in strobe 0 as I don't have access to a Barb Wire manual. If it is working then it may not be in strobe 0. What about the other lamps I listed?

#17 1 year ago

There is not any lamps in the apron on barb wire. Every lamp works except the shoot again. I am hoping its the only lamp in strobe 0. I can't tell without the manual but I did order a manual.

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from Don44:

There is not any lamps in the apron on barb wire. Every lamp works except the shoot again. I am hoping its the only lamp in strobe 0. I can't tell without the manual but I did order a manual.

There would be more than one lamp in the strobe so it's odd that there is only one not working. Nevertheless, replacing the MOSFET is a good first step.

#19 1 year ago

I replaced the mosfet at Q33 and same problem still but possibly I used the wrong transistor. This is what I used: FAIRCHILD SEMICONDUCTOR FQP17P06 P CHANNEL MOSFET, -60V, 17A, TO-220 (1 piece) from Amazon. When I took a reading with my dmm, it read .558 and the other transistors around it measured .570. Any input on that?

#20 1 year ago

I can't really comment on the suitability of that particular MOSFET. It looks comparable to the original but it differs in some specs. All I can advise is to use as close a replacement as possible to the original. IRF9530s can be used instead of IRF9531s as specified in the manual. There are plenty of those on Amazon: amazon.com link »

The real test is to check the old MOSFET to see if it was actually defective. Go through the tests in the video I linked above and see if the MOSFET you removed fails any of those tests. If it does, you have found your defective component and the one you replaced it with is also inappropriate. If not, then the problem lies elsewhere and we keep looking.

#21 1 year ago

I got my manual and looked at the switch and lamp matrix and all switches in strobe 0 were not working but only one lamp not working. I went through all the lamps in strobe 0 and I found a broken wire going to one of the lamp boards. All of the lamps on the board were working but I knew it when I saw it I had found my problem. All is now working! Thanks for all the help.

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from Don44:

I found my problem and all is now working.

Glad your problem is solved, but now I have a different Barb Wire switch problem:

I'd like to switch my Gottlieb Barb Wire for a Stern Star Wars pro, but I don't think its gonna happen.

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from Don44:

I got my manual and looked at the switch and lamp matrix and all switches in strobe 0 were not working but only one lamp not working. I went through all the lamps in strobe 0 and I found a broken wire going to one of the lamp boards. All of the lamps on the board were working but I knew it when I saw it I had found my problem. All is now working! Thanks for all the help.

Aha. Glad you found the problem.

Always check thoroughly for broken wires first. This is always the first step in troubleshooting Sys 3 lamp and switch issues. Saves doing a lot of unnecessary board work.

#24 1 year ago

It was hard to find. It was nowhere near where all the affected switches are or the lamp that did not work. Its amazing how one little wire can sometimes shut down a pin.

#25 1 year ago

I have been busy so had not played barb wire until today. I realized that 3 coils do not work either. Its the right top kicking target, lens unit 1 and lens unit 3. I checked all the fuses and all good there. I tested DC power on the coils and on the kicking target, I did not get a reading on one of the lugs and 68 volts on the other. On lens unit 3 I got 68 volts on both lugs and on lens unit 1 I got 18 volts on each lug. The wire that connects to the lug where I did not get a reading goes directly to the driver board from there. If the kicking target coil is bad, could it cause the other 2 coils to not function as well?

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