Cosmos
Bally, 1969
Sea Ray
Bally, 1971
Stage Coach
Chicago Coin, 1968
Zip-A-Doo
Bally, 1970You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider mtnfrost.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Quoted from Coindork:I hope they are taking into account the amount of internet traffic this could potentially generate. Even if people are not bidding and just following the auction it’s going to eat up a lot of bandwidth.
The internet connectivity at Banning has always sucked.
Hope they are taking this into account and taking the proper measures.
Since I plan on being there in person, I certainly DO hope they crash the site. Is that wrong?
Well, being local for once is going to be a great thing - I've isolated two dozen pins I'd like to have, calculated the final price and backed that out to the highest bid I want to make, including all relevant factors - you may think me crazy, but I won't buy anything that's not a good price compared to what I can pickup elsewhere. If I come away with ONE, in that range, I'll be happy. There are only a few rares I'd like, but none of them beyond what they are worth on the regular market.
I do hope they keep out anyone not bidding - it's going to be crowded enough, and I hope they enforce the mask mandate we have in CA. Good luck all, and don't bid on MY pins! But go crazy on any video or EM you see, they are all yours!
Quoted from Mrbill:if your comparing the banning pins...
I know you meant to respond to somebody, pretty sure it wasn't me!
I have to admit, after being initially very excited by this, now I'm not so sure I'm going - oh, don't get me wrong, I'll still bid, but if the expectation is that every sale will be wildly out of alignment with current pinball prices due to hype, I may not do more than place my max and then review later to see who won. What do you all think? Too much frenzy and too little opportunity to pick up something at a reasonable price?
Quoted from uncivil_engineer:If most of the buyers are locals, I think the real bargains will come in about 6 months when the people start getting tired of storing the machines they hardly play.
So going to the auction - you will only be able to attend in person if you put down a 300 deposit, they are only letting in those who are bidding. As I am reading it, which is good. And to be clear - they want a CASH deposit. FYI
Quoted from uncivil_engineer:Right now it looks like I will be able to attend on Saturday only. However my schedule may put me arriving there after 1100. I think they are going to find there will A LOT of people willing to put down a deposit to attend. I don't think this will bode well for Chris's style of moving from machine to machine during the auction. Today's bidding may be very telling as to how the rest of the auction will go down.
I'm going to use today's results to gauge how the rest of it will go. If it's stupid prices, I'll just online bid and go on with my day, no need to sweat it.
Quoted from Oneangrymo:You guys need some drinks.
Quoted from EMDude:War room. It’s HOT
[quoted image]
So, how many live bidders are you seeing? Enough to fill those chairs? And I mean one person per chair, for the comedians out there.
Quoted from Oneangrymo:lets start placing bets on how much machines go for. The first one - THE AMAZING SPIDERMAN PINBALL MACHINE GOTTLIEB
I will bet you 100 bucks itll sell for 420.00
The average price for this one is 1800. That means you'd want to bid no higher than about 1500 to buy it for what you can get it for - and they made a lot of these. So, stupid auction price I bet is around 2200, which will cost the bidder about 2700 after fees. This is how I expect most to go for pins that are not EMs.
Final bid guess 2200, which is 2700 total, for a game worth on average 1800, a markup for no value of 33%.
Quoted from SpyroFTW:Lots of masks I see
Now I'm glad I'm not there. Super spreader event in the making.
Quoted from rvdv:Gottlieb spiderman for $4375 !!!!
Seriously? You have to be kidding.
Quoted from PismoArcade:Skyrocket em $2600 plus fees
That's over 3000 after fees. This is stupid, but I do not expect these prices to affect the overall market - they are so far out of the reality.
bright thought - everyone gets too hot, no power on their iphones, hungry, tired, and some deals go through late.
Quoted from Aniraf:Someone correct me if I'm wrong...these games are not in perfect condition right? The prices seem pretty spectacular for a few of these earlier ones. At this rate I imagine the late model LEs will be like $40k.
Yes, they are various conditions - BMX was worn down to the wood at one place, as an example. They are NOT museum quality.
Quoted from museumofpinball:We can confirm the technical difficulties are not the result of the internet connection or bandwidth…Please stay patient as Captains gets the issues figured out. He will continue soon. Thanks for watching and bidding!
You aren't going to get this fixed quickly given the numbers online, but these prices aren't worth waiting for.
Quoted from xsvtoys:OK Nitro Ground Shaker was the only one of real interest to me today. The hammer price was $2300 for a final cash price of $2839. My max hammer if I were bidding was $1458, for a final cost of $1800. I am pretty sure I can get a nice one for that range some day.
I have 13 on my list for tomorrow, it will be interesting to see what they go for. I'll check in on the final prices as I get time, but mostly this is a complete waste.
Those are just insane prices from people who have no clue about pinball, it would seem. Yeah, I have 1 tonight and 6 tomorrow, but given what we've seen, I will expect to stick to our normal markets. What is the average price on that Nitro? Your bid mirror my own thinking.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Scorpion just sold for $4,000.
Papa sold theirs for $900. I almost bought it.
There's a project one here for 600. That's how I like my pins, cheap and needing work.
Has to be foreign bidders + noobs who have no CLUE about pinballs. Bet they regret it when it comes time to sell one.
OR when it comes time to repair one.
Quoted from 80sMan:It's bad. People bidding on line & not even able to see the games or ask questions. It's like condition means nothing. Some of these games like Haunted House? You can't even tell if there's wear on the playfield where the ball drops into the cellar. A million things like this that are so important and effect the price. These games are from a public place (not home used) & literally being dumped & if worth this price simply because they exist? it's Ridiculous. The only thing this tells me is that my games and some of the people on here that really love & pamper their games? They are worth a fortune! It doesn't make me want to sell me games, it makes me want to keep my games.. and most of us aren't going to want to buy someone's garbage going forward for these prices.
Agreed - but I think we can all agree this isn't going to move the needle on prices one iota.
Quoted from rotordave:So the maths doesn’t add up.
rd
I think it's more noobs and a few foreign - and the math doesn't add up here either.
Quoted from NPO:*remembers a LOT of people on this forum saying "more people in pinball is great for the hobby!"*
Still feel that way seeing this prices?
Yes, I do. And these prices aren't going to be repeated anytime soon by anyone. They are so far removed from fair value, they won't move the needle an iota. Those in the hobby know value, and those who join quickly learn.
Quoted from NPO:Exactly...those in the hobby.......wiling to bet eBay prices will ABSOLUTELY adjust bad on these auction prices. $5K SF2s on eBay now...!
Dude....$5900 for FREDDY....HFS....
If you buy your pins off ebay, you deserve what you get. Smart people don't. I'm not worried. A pin requires constant maintenance. I predict a lot of these pins wind up getting sold cheaply once they break down in a couple years.
Quoted from trolldownstairs:Who the hell is buying up EM's at more than 5X going prices?!?!
Could be online trolling. I guarantee we will find out. Or noobs, like watching someone with no training trying to fly an aircraft.
Quoted from Knxwledge:Deleted post
Quoted from uncivil_engineer:So much for my plans for going in person tomorrow.
Same - HARD PASS. I have better things to do with my time.
Anyone from here, who is there live, go up and talk to any of the buyers - ask about why and how they are buying? Seems we could get a decent cross section to understand what we think is going on.
Ok, everybody log off and go to sleep, nothing more to see tonight! Spread the word. Are they tired at the auction?
Quoted from seenev:I think they're going to be able to live with it on their end.
I don't really care about their end, nobody here does.
Quoted from ForceFlow:Are they really going to try to plow through 200 more lots tonight? That's going to be a really late night for the east coast.
I was thinking the same, which is why I was wondering the time per lot has been today. Many people will be sleeping in tomorrow.
Quoted from Meri-cah:This is a joke. Obviously something going on. South Park going for almost 8k and not even including 18% hammer and/or shipping/tax!
NO REAL person would spend over $10k for south park pinball. Seriously. What scam is happening right now!!! Total joke
I'm thinking the same thing. Money laundering maybe, who knows but there is no way in hell....
May all these buyers blow a fuse or burn a locked-on coil and then have a large paperweight to torment them....
Quoted from xsvtoys:Folks we have a Xenon coming up. And a frickin Fathom! These are actual desirable games. I can’t even imagine the Fathom. I guess I’ll throw out $19,000 for the Fathom, hammer. Seems stupid, but then again…
As I recall from playing it, their Fathom is a pretty nice one.
As for the last ones of the night, TZ, TAF, SS, AFM, etc, what the hell? In the 20s?
They won't go for any more than all the other titles - if the theory is noobs, then we won't see any change because the real collectors won't touch them at those prices.
Quoted from xsvtoys:Ok so.. DE Star Trek was next on my personal-interest spreadsheet, after the long past Nitro Ground Shaker.
I wrote in there, I would go for a max bid of $2025, or final cost $2,500.
The hammer was $7,400.
I’m starting to get this feeling I might not get any of the deals I was hoping for.
Every pin I've had on my list - BH, HH, Frankenstein, X-Files.....same realization.
People are noticing a few bidders who bid up the game to a point and then bail. I know others have seen this here. Copied from a FB post earlier:
Auctioneer: $5,500 Internet Bidder 1496
Auctioneer: Online bidder 1496 requests bid of $5,500 on lot 345
Auctioneer: $5,000 Internet Bidder 2275
Auctioneer: Online bidder 2275 requests bid of $5,000 on lot 345
Auctioneer: $4,500 Internet Bidder 4709
Auctioneer: Online bidder 4709 requests bid of $4,500 on lot 345
Auctioneer: $4,000 Internet Bidder 2207
Auctioneer: Online bidder 2207 requests bid of $4,000 on lot 345
Auctioneer: $3,500 Internet Bidder 3141
Auctioneer: $3,000 Internet Bidder 5456
Auctioneer: $2,500 Internet Bidder 3141
Auctioneer: $2,000 Internet Bidder 5456
Auctioneer: $1,500 Internet Bidder 3141
Auctioneer: $1,000 Internet Bidder 5456
Auctioneer: $500 Internet Bidder 3141
Auctioneer: Lot 345 started (Jurassic Park Pinball Machine Data East SS)
Why does every one of the lots start with two bidders that instantly drive the price up and then never bid again...........
Quoted from adol75:I'm getting in on Fire, hopefully it won't go too crazy
You have to be kidding, right?
Quoted from palmab03:it's been that way for at least an hour or two. The question is how many of them did he ultimately win?
Shills never win
Auctioneer: $3,500 Internet Bidder 4867
Auctioneer: $3,000 Internet Bidder 4376
Auctioneer: $2,500 Internet Bidder 4867
Auctioneer: $2,000 Internet Bidder 4376
Auctioneer: $1,500 Internet Bidder 4867
Auctioneer: $1,000 Internet Bidder 4376
Another pin on my list, not going to happen. Two bidders who then just drop out.
Thanks, the ones I still wanted will be up early in tomorrows bidding. I'm not even going to log in. Late night, maybe. But not fresh and early.
yeah, there were no good prices - the Fathom was NOT a reasonable price, nor any of the others. Gives me little hope for the rares I wanted.
There is definitely something very fishy going on. But it's just not going to be a good auction for all of us.
Quoted from pinball2020:I think as it was mentioned in threads that there is a lot of corporate buying where they may or may not know the details about machines. If they want them for their arcade themed bars, projects, companies, in/out of the country, they are going to just bid and get what they want. I also think they have the resources for fixing and maintaining things and won't be shocked or rely on volunteers if they need repairs. I don't think this is the case for every sale but for some of the larger ones - maybe. I could be wrong .
This makes the most sense so far - if so, there's going to be a lot of pins for sale across the country when they break down, eventually. Not all will want to pay to maintain them after the warm fuzzy glow wears off.
Quoted from xsvtoys:It’s not just that there were no good prices. Consider this. Captain’s Auction has sales going all the time, and they sell lots of pinball machines. There are usually never “good prices” there. Sometimes as has been discussed in past threads, there have been a few good scores at good prices by Pinsiders who stuck it out until late, or managed to get something that for whatever reason didn’t attract a lot of interest.
The general discussion after one of their auctions is “eehhh, nothing to see here, prices too high after the fees, I can do better”. But THESE prices make past auctions look like the deals of a lifetime. They just had a sale in August, unfortunately I think those results go away after a time, or at least I can’t find them. But I bet if you looked at those prices you would see everything at half or less than this craziness.
There is something strange going on with this auction. I guess the current theory that it is due to the marketing and the subsequent interest of a bunch of non-pin people with too much money to burn makes sense. Maybe crypto profits, or what I don’t know.
The spending on those stupid NFTs is ridiculous, but I guess no more so than paying millions for an ugly piece of scribbling from a graffiti artist like Banksy. Paying millions for a sealed game cartridge seems equally dumb. But hey apparently people have the money so they can blow it however they like.
What I don’t get is the sudden interest in pinball. It seems to me while people generally know what a pinball machine is, the vast majority don’t really care much about it or would have some sort of idea that they would actually like to own one. Realistically only a bunch of boomers with nostalgia for the past give a crap. (Although there are some younger people that really get into them, and thank goodness for all of you, but you are in the minority).
And finally, add onto to this what you are going to get. A complicated thing with moving parts that slam into each other that weighs a ton and most certainly is going to malfunction in some manner within a short period of time. And even if you have so much money you don’t care , it won’t be too easy to just pick up the phone and write a check for someone to come fix it for you.
However, I will note that having spent quite a bit of time on Bally EMs (as evidenced by my Bon Voyage and Monte Carlo circuit description threads) I am fairly proficient at troubleshooting and fixing those. I will be available to help. $500/hour, 4 hour minimum, plus parts.
As someone who makes real (if not significant) money selling NFTs, I agree. And with the rest as well. I hope you are correct.
Quoted from mark532011:I have to admit, I am kinda sad. I was really hoping to pick up a couple of machines and had put a lot of work into figuring out logistics to get them to me. But at these prices, looks like I am back to CL
Same here - I did so much research to create a valid bidding plan - not once has the price paused before my max. I know good pins are out there, but not these
Quoted from rvdv:Which one ?
Eclipse - but I've just hit my limit. Sucks, that's another on my grail list.
Quoted from pinballplusMN:Voltan seemed good price for rarity
Nope - I had one in great condition, it played like a dog, boring - only one thing to do, rinse and repeat. And I'm very forgiving of that kind of thing.
Quoted from Knxwledge:Woah hold on I just found something strange, if you filter by games that haven't sold yet, 3 games that apparently already sold are there (Spirit, Gold Cue, Medusa). Anyone know what happened with these?
https://bid.captainsauctionwarehouse.com/m/lot-details/index/catalog/80/lot/19405
https://bid.captainsauctionwarehouse.com/m/lot-details/index/catalog/80/lot/19497
https://bid.captainsauctionwarehouse.com/m/lot-details/index/catalog/80/lot/19562
Not sure, but I see those as well. Odd.
Quoted from John_I:Yeah a friend an I were watching online and had the same reaction after the first game sold, even though we knew what was coming. We were looking to get a particular game on Saturday for $3500+ fees/ taxes and it went for $13,500+. LOL.
Down the road, when these games break down there will be demand for techs and parts. Probably a lot of them will be up for resale in not too long. They might advertise them for what they paid at the auction, but they will end up having to accept "obo" otherwise it will not sell.
Yes, I had Cosmic Princess on my want list too. Agreed!
I wonder how many of us did the legwork, researched the prices, created a bidsheet and identified different strategies, complete with contingency plans....weeks of casual work, only to toss the paperwork after the first sale.
Quoted from Pickle:Dude….if you have been at this 9 years you know the value of these games. No need for a spreadsheet. You know the value of these games as well as anyone else. Overpriced for almost everything….and I am not talking by a few hundred dollars. It is what it is….there are buyers outside of Pinside and the hobby. Just have to get over that. If there is something rare and you want it you have to be ready to pony up for it. Just the way it is these days.
I've actually been collecting and restoring pins for at least 25 years, but whose counting. No, surprisingly I don't keep a tally sheet in my head of every pin, and my interests in pins changes as I see or discover pins I've only glanced at or never bothered to find and play. And then there is the auction mindset, at what point do I bail? Do I go over on ONE pin and give up something else? Yadda yadda yadda.... But I disagree on one point - you don't have to pony up big money - instead, you just have to be patient, and the pins will find you.
I won't date myself too much to say my first pin, Fathom, I got for 700 from a guy on a boardwalk on the other coast. Came complete with sand
Quoted from EJS:Bought my first pin in 1998 and I happen to now be friends with the seller to this day. I’m still being offered a full refund anytime I want
Very cool. I never met my seller, all by phone (this was the early days of internet). This would have been about 1999.
To emphasize the point, this auction is an abomination, I've now passed over a half dozen pins offered at very reasonable prices.
Quoted from Methos:No it isn't. Many rare pins are now going in private collections where in turn they will be sold again.
Quoted from xsvtoys:[quoted image]
I think these 4, Surfer, Atlantis, Fathom, and Seawitch, were actually pretty reasonable. Only about 1/3 more than what I would have like to pay. Looking at Surfer, I thought a final cost of $3,200 would be reasonable (which would be a bid of $2,592).
Disagree that these were reasonable. Your first column is what the pins are worth, I'd even agree the upper end is the second column. But that last column doesn't reflect reality in any shape.
Quoted from Methos:How do you know they have no clue? I bought one and I would like to think I have a clue (my wife my disagree), but you don't know me as well as my wife does.
What is a reasonable price for a rare pin? What you can afford?
I think you are projecting your frustrations.
Oh, I'm sure I'm projecting a bit. I know they have no clue by the prices, and the discussions here by people way more knowledgeable than me. No rhyme or reason, just tossing money at everything. I'm speaking on the whole, you would be the exception, and you were willing to pay way above (guessing, since I do not know what you bought).
As far as what's reasonable for a rare pin - there are data points for everything out there. No need to guess, we already know the ballpark.
Quoted from Methos:What is interesting is that the truly rare games didn't go for as much as I thought...outside of Stargazer...Quicksilver, Spirit, Andromeda, Cyclopes and especially DragonFist were in the ball park. DragonFist was the one I really was surprised on - thought that would have reached 10k.
Even the rare EMs like C37, Jacks to Open, Buckaroo, etc....were not too bad.
I wanted Cosmic Princess and Eclipse off that rare list. Not even close to real. But I agree with your assessment of those. But then you get to an EM - Bronco? odd
Quoted from Heretic_9:But THIS auction ? It was more like, "Did anybody get a good look at the bus that just ran over me ?'
And then backed over us all a few times in a crosshatch pattern, just for good measure, before doing donuts in our flowerbeds and showering gravel on our vintage car/bike/supermodel on the way out.....
Quoted from too-many-pins:I have not really followed much about this auction or what is actually going on with it so could someone "fill me in". I know hammer prices were crazy but that is about all I know.
Is the auction over now or is there more coming? If there is more when does that happen? And stuff like that would be interesting to know.
At this point how many machines were sold? And anything else people "not in the know" might be curious about.
Sorry if this stuff has already been talked about but I don't feel like looking through thousands of post trying to find a couple answers.
Sure, Short answer - the auction continues this weekend, don't bother if you want any kind of deal, in fact, don't bother if you're not willing to throw stupid money at machines and pay 3-5x what the pins are really worth.
Quoted from LTG:Not this weekend. The weekend after.
LTG : )
Whoops, thanks for correcting. In my head, every weekend is a pinball auction!
Quoted from Heretic_9:To those who have posted along the lines of "This is the new normal, get used to it": I don't think so, but I guess we shall see. From my point of view, it is not a matter of what one could possibly stretch to and still afford to purchase. Had I bought any of these pins from the auction that required paying 3X to 5X actual, maximum, justifiable prices, I would have felt like an idiot, and it would have haunted me for years. That is not a function of the size of one's bank account . . . unless you have so much $$$$$ that it ceases to hold any meaning. (But maybe not even THEN.)
And then if you and everyone else paid 3X to 5X, nobody's wallet would allow them to buy as many - meaning that there will be more unsold machines.
Quoted from HighVoltage:What exactly was our goal, ha?
Can't speak to others, but mine has always been to buy cheap pinball games, stay off the radar and under the limelight, and be able to have a fun hobby that isn't overrun with rich people buying up everything. But I know that's not how the world works. *#^&%%@& internet.....
Quoted from HighVoltage:I also wonder what the hobby would be like today if more thought that way.
I actually think the goal was more, "let's not let the hobby die. We want Stern to survive and keep making games." It looked close for a while there. No one could foresee a pinball explosion. Even Stern was predicting its death.
I think it's a double edged sword - we wouldn't have such great companies remaking playfields and backglasses, and continuing to supply pinball parts, had the hobby stayed a quiet obscure thing. Of course, if nobody can afford to buy a few pins.....meh
Quoted from FlippyD:I have seen numerous people who think the auction is over. I wonder if they don't heavily promote the second weekend if that will keep bids a bit lower.
That's the same wishful thinking that kept us all watching the shit show for the first weekend. I don't think we'll see any difference this time around. I'll be glad when it's over.
Quoted from Karnov:I told CC about this being a parts unit. I am unsure if it even has the game PCBs in it.
What did you think of the price?
Quoted from AnimeDude892:$5,100 Hammer price
Thank you - well that’s more than the 2000 I marked on my preauction guesstimate…..
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:Is it really that rare? His whole thing about “made by Disney” confused me. I don’t know anything about Fix It Felix.
I worked on the film, they made 10 I think for us to play.
Well, as much as we kept hoping for good pinball deals in the midst of this ridiculously hyperinflated event, I'm glad it's behind us. Maybe we should create a thread where, as the new owners realize what they have and what they did, start selling at a loss or start asking for repair help. Make sure to charge them a ridiculous sum, tech people. They have already demonstrated they have more money than brains.
Thanks to everyone here who made watching this a group event, you made it really fun. And that's saying something!
Quoted from Coindork:Because nothing screams community like ridiculously overcharging the new guy.
Just remember that today’s “noob” may become tomorrow’s veteran collector.
Well, let's just say that pin repair techs tend to be underpaid and under appreciated. anyone who buys a pin at those prices? without even checking current values? I mean, pinside is very visible to even a casual search. Let's make certain the noobs understand techs deserve to be paid a good fee.
Quoted from Knxwledge:Enlighten me, then. Why is $50 akin to slavery, and why does that make it okay to underhandedly change what you charge based off the person's perceived wealth? I would think that if word ever got out that you were doing that, it wouldn't be a good look.
Not sure I saw anyone say that here (slavery comment). As to the second half - I agree with you, and yet runaway American capitalism seems to use that as one of many mantras, and sometimes, in reverse - charge the poor guy the highest rate.
Quoted from Coindork:Getting paid a fair wage for someones technical capabilities and "ridiculously sum" as you so put it are two different things.
I don't disagree that someone should be paid a fair wage, nor do I have an issue paying a fair wage based on someones skillset.
I had a guy come over to the house to quote me on building a Palapa in my back yard.......
Glad we agree. But spare us the stories of how tough you were to corrupt contractors. Sounds like you have some bad contractors, makes me wonder why you didn't call your normal plumber in the first place, and not waste anyone's time.
You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider mtnfrost.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/banning-pinball-museum-to-relocate?tu=mtnfrost and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
