(Topic ID: 291676)

Banning Pinball Museum to auction their collection

By Steve_in_Escalon

2 years ago


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#751 2 years ago
Quoted from Azmodeus:

I’m going to try to go to the event. I will take a few pictures and post them here if I do.

Weather forecast mentioned 108 degrees out there in the Dez . . . .

#752 2 years ago

Does it cost money to just register to be able to bid in this auction? I went to capt auction site to sign up but it's asking for a cc number. I don't see anywhere on the site that says if it does or does not cost money to participate.

#753 2 years ago

going to be watching this thread tomorrow as the bidding starts! Please post updates if you're there.

#754 2 years ago

This is just my $.2
I'm so interested to see what these games go for. However, for me, there just isn't anything I "HAVE TO HAVE" with a 18% buyers premium and then 7.75% sales tax in Banning. Then consider shipping, at a min of $400. Don't get me wrong, Ive been to the Banning show many times and it's an awesome collection. Most games are in really nice condition, some need work. I rather enjoy the hunt for a game when im looking for something specific. I also enjoy restoring them too. Newer stuff is dime a dozen. Someone is always wanting to sell and chances are it wont have as many plays on it. Im pretty confident that most all of these games will be going for over market value at the hammer price.
I'm really going to miss this place. John is such a nice guy. Thank You to John for providing this location for all these years. I have some good memories there.

Also- Good Luck to everyone going to the auction. I hope you get what you're looking for.

#755 2 years ago

Well that pretty much seals it. No good deals will be had.

#756 2 years ago

Add 20% to your final bid amount to account for the attention from the press. I know someone that is going to bid over 150k total on at least 7 different machines, and he doesn't know anything about pinball. Lots of covid cash right now. He wants all the rare titles.

#757 2 years ago
Quoted from jake35:

I know someone that is going to bid over 150k total on at least 7 different machines, and he doesn't know anything about pinball

WOW! I guess if someone wants to dive into this hobby with a collection, this is the way to do it. I guess I'm just small potatoes compared to others. I can barely house the 20 pinballs and 2 arcades I have. #outofroom

#758 2 years ago

Yeah this is actually going to be fun to watch just to marvel at the prices. No pressure now because I know I have zero chance of finding something that I want at even close to a reasonable price.

The real winner $$$ here is the auction house. They have surely alerted the media as much as they can.

#759 2 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

Well that pretty much seals it. No good deals will be had.

I never expected it to be about good deals, but more about finally getting that one game you want that rarely comes up for sale.

#760 2 years ago
Quoted from bicyclenut:

WOW! I guess if someone wants to dive into this hobby with a collection, this is the way to do it. I guess I'm just small potatoes compared to others. I can barely house the 20 pinballs and 2 arcades I have. #outofroom

Anyone in this hobby for any length of time knows you just rent machines for some period of time. The sequence is 1) few in your basement 2) few now in your kitchen too 3) rent storage locker 4) decide hey I should at least try to get some income from this and rent warehouse and charge public 5) realize this is a hobby not a business and expenses will mostly increase not decrease 6) sell off most of collection 7) a couple years later after a break have remorse and buy again (muttering about how you bought this for $20 10 years ago rather than the $2000 you have to pay nowlather … rinse … repeat.

The big difference here is Weeks took it to a whole new level. I’m seriously impressed that this much free cash went to it. But with nobody willing to foot the bill in Palm Springs this was destined to end. You get tired of losing money, especially when a multimillion cannabis business awaits. It’s the fallacy of sunk cost. I am personally in stage 5, but for now we are able to run it as a business with a good manager snd my buying habits held in check. We will see how long that lasts.

11
#761 2 years ago

The saddest thing of all is how much press the auction gets and how little press the museum got. When it was open, basically nobody outside of the pinball/vid enthusiast crowd gave 2 shits about the place.

#762 2 years ago

My spreadsheet is pretty simple, and it just has a short list of games that I think I would really be interested in buying some day. For most of the games, I have pretty much been following them since I have been on Pinside, so I have a pretty good idea what they typically sell for, at least here. As one example, a TZ for quite some time was going for right around the $7,000 range pretty much all the time. In the past year of course, things have jumped almost across the board, so now TZs seem to ask $8-9k.

So I just came up with a "Final Cost" number, that is, if I decided to bid, this would be the max amount I would pay, and that's it.

Spreadsheet:

Col A Lot #
Col B Manufacturer
Col C Game Name
Col D Max Bid (Formula is this: multiply Col E by 0.81)
Col E Final Cost (The total amount I am willing to pay)
Col F Auction Date

So Col D is the number that would be my maximum bid. If you divide that by 0.81 you will get the final cost (close enough). That's the amount you are gonna have to pay for your bid. That assumes a 15% markup for paying cash, and 7.75% sales tax. I would be able to drive over and pick up if I had to.

This is just an exercise for fun. I don't plan to do any bidding this time. I just want to see, if I had decided to bid, would I have been able to get any machine I wanted for my max price or lower? I'm guessing NO.

#763 2 years ago

Kind of funny. I’ve been in pinball since 2003. Historically everyone seems starved for media attention with pinball, now this and it’s the opposite. Yes I know why and yes I agree better for us. BUT, if a good number of these games get new people into the hobby I’m all for it.

#764 2 years ago
Quoted from jay:

The saddest thing of all is how much press the auction gets and how little press the museum got. When it was open, basically nobody outside of the pinball/vid enthusiast crowd gave 2 shits about the place.

It takes marketing as the auction house has shown.

The pinball museum near me asked their customers to leave yelp reviews. Now whenever you search 'what to do' in that city, it is recommended. They consistently post on social media to let everyone know when new titles arrive and if open/closed on holidays to keep folks coming back.

15
#765 2 years ago

I’ve been a tech at the MoP for the past 5 years and will be attending both weekends proudly sporting my red tech shirt! Please say ‘hello’ if you’re there. I’ll post some photos and vids here during and after.

#766 2 years ago
Quoted from jay:

The saddest thing of all is how much press the auction gets and how little press the museum got. When it was open, basically nobody outside of the pinball/vid enthusiast crowd gave 2 shits about the place.

Not intending to be mean, but the entire approach (except for having an open money spigot) would never work. Cheap rent in Banning and it helps if you own the warehouse, but not enough paying public to sustain. For sure the experience is better than PHOF, but it’s not in Vegas, therefore not really accessible. Even in Palm Springs I would be dubious. These businesses require large square footage and struggle to pay out on sq ft basis unless baked with other business model or in the case of PHOF has an almost limitless supply of new customers. Asheville does in a week what my business does in 2 months. IMHO my place is better, the pins play better, the facility is more airy. However, Location location location. We only stay open because we have scaled the size of our business to the number of new paying customers we can routinely bring in each week. Banning no matter what it did and how amazingly awesome the place we (and it is amazingly awesome) was never going to make that equation work, non profit or not.

#767 2 years ago
Quoted from jay:

The saddest thing of all is how much press the auction gets and how little press the museum got. When it was open, basically nobody outside of the pinball/vid enthusiast crowd gave 2 shits about the place.

Note - difference between someone getting paid to push... and the amount of effort put in before.

This kind of press is happening because it's PUSHED out.

#768 2 years ago
Quoted from pookycade:

Not intending to be mean, but the entire approach (except for having an open money spigot) would never work. Cheap rent in Banning and it helps if you own the warehouse, but not enough paying public to sustain. For sure the experience is better than PHOF, but it’s not in Vegas, therefore not really accessible. Even in Palm Springs I would be dubious. These businesses require large square footage and struggle to pay out on sq ft basis unless baked with other business model or in the case of PHOF has an almost limitless supply of new customers

Only Mr Weeks can really elaborate on his end-game... but remember this project was setup at the time trying to be an events destination. It was done in the wake of the PAPA facility being built out and successful. I don't think they ever thought this would be a self-sustaining weekly operation. The scale was always done on a sugar-daddy level - not a 'whats our business plan...'. They set out to create a destination - but they never seemed to follow-through on the needs to do it.

Your elaboration fits more with Mr Silverman's National Pinball Musuem... which failed multiple times because he needed it to be a self-sustaining business and he never could do it. He even undercut himself with risky lease setups to save costs and it burned him.

Banning I don't think ever had that ambition - it's been a pet novelity since the start - not a functioning business.

#769 2 years ago

It really would be nice if they mandated vaccines for entry this weekend.

#770 2 years ago

Excited to see what insane prices people pay but highly highly doubt I'll bid on anything. The biggest problem with the auction is you get 3 low rez photos and the only description says, "Evidence of wear and commercial operation." Wow big woop.

Are they letting people up-close to the games and look under the playfields on site? Will they be turned on?

Condition is everything. Top dollar is fine if it's the absolute best example. Which, having been to Banning, I cannot say is true for the majority of their machines. Some are actually in pretty poor shape but I didn't see any mention of this on the lot listings I viewed.

#771 2 years ago
Quoted from Time:

Excited to see what insane prices people pay but highly highly doubt I'll bid on anything. The biggest problem with the auction is you get 3 low rez photos and the only description says, "Evidence of wear and commercial operation." Wow big woop.
Are they letting people up-close to the games and look under the playfields on site? Will they be turned on?
Condition is everything. Top dollar is fine if it's the absolute best example. Which, having been to Banning, I cannot say is true for the majority of their machines. Some are actually in pretty poor shape but I didn't see any mention of this on the lot listings I viewed.

"Evidence of wear and commercial operation" is their generic copy-and-paste message. At their warehouse in Anaheim during COVID restrictions you had to make an appointment but you were allowed to walk around, test out and look at whatever you wanted before the auction. I dunno if they're letting people in for inspection, but I thought I heard it's both in-person and online

Edit: yes it is in-person and online

#772 2 years ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

looks like it is 18% premium now

The funny thing about the 18% is you just know they're making at least the same percentage off the Pinball Museum's selling fee as well. Just a rough guess but Captain's has to be making well north of a million bucks off this one liquidation.

assuming, what ~1200 games avg sale around $2200...

#773 2 years ago
Quoted from pinlink:

Does it cost money to just register to be able to bid in this auction? I went to capt auction site to sign up but it's asking for a cc number. I don't see anywhere on the site that says if it does or does not cost money to participate.

Anyone know if it costs money to just register to bid? Capt auction is asking for payment info to just create an account.

#774 2 years ago
Quoted from pinlink:

Anyone know if it costs money to just register to bid? Capt auction is asking for payment info to just create an account.

Check out the info, they require a $300 refundable deposit to bid. Seems like they wanna keep the riff raff out
https://bid.captainsauctionwarehouse.com/m/view-auctions/info/id/80

#775 2 years ago
Quoted from pinlink:

Anyone know if it costs money to just register to bid? Capt auction is asking for payment info to just create an account.

Everyone wants the ability to secure your bids (for obvious reasons)

-1
#776 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Only Mr Weeks can really elaborate on his end-game... but remember this project was setup at the time trying to be an events destination. It was done in the wake of the PAPA facility being built out and successful. I don't think they ever thought this would be a self-sustaining weekly operation. The scale was always done on a sugar-daddy level - not a 'whats our business plan...'. They set out to create a destination - but they never seemed to follow-through on the needs to do it.
Your elaboration fits more with Mr Silverman's National Pinball Musuem... which failed multiple times because he needed it to be a self-sustaining business and he never could do it. He even undercut himself with risky lease setups to save costs and it burned him.
Banning I don't think ever had that ambition - it's been a pet novelity since the start - not a functioning business.

Yeah I agree with all the above. I think the problem was that when a hobby turns into a business (and with customers paying come employees and insurance and complaints) it sorts stops being the carefree effort it once was. My point is that all these endeavors which are not self sustaining eventually become tiresome and have a limited shelf life, mainly because your focus is directed at the outgoing spigot of money followed closely by effort you personally have to pay for to solving problems. People want to be paid for solving problems (unless they are of the machine repair variety in ones own arcade at least for me) Banning was no different, and even my own arcade may eventually succumb to this same problematic dynamic. For now it’s enjoyable enough and is self sustaining. And I do agree that instability in location due to limited term rental is a huge issue and can take one down just as much as setting up at a posh address with high rent and limited customers can. My first location got bulldozed 4 months after we opened (expected but not that quickly), and we almost died. It is interesting to me that people always asks why there are limited opportunities for kids activities in most towns. Simple answer: it doesn’t pay enough relative to the restaurant, laundromat, flower shop, etc that can go in the same space. Simple economics. Despite the revival of arcades, there remains a fundamental business model that has not been fully solved, and for those that have seemingly solved it may be a temporary stay at best

#777 2 years ago
Quoted from Time:

The funny thing about the 18% is you just know they're making at least the same percentage off the Pinball Museum's selling fee as well. Just a rough guess but Captain's has to be making well north of a million bucks off this one liquidation.
assuming, what ~1200 games avg sale around $2200...

Captains auctions can be a great source of machines IF 1) you live in Socal and can pickup rather than ship and 2) you can hang back into the wee hours when you are competing against less people. This auction is probably not one of those events unfortunately. So I shall stay away and live vicariously thru the ridiculous prices likely to be paid.

17
#778 2 years ago
Quoted from jake35:

I know someone that is going to bid over 150k total on at least 7 different machines, and he doesn't know anything about pinball. Lots of covid cash right now. He wants all the rare titles.

Sounds like a great way to turn 150k into 90k.

#779 2 years ago
Quoted from Coindork:

Sounds like a great way to turn 150k into 90k.

Many who have bought high are likely to wind up selling low -- eventually, as exigencies and adverse events (some predictable and some not) invariably come to pass.

#780 2 years ago
Quoted from pookycade:

Yeah I agree with all the above. I think the problem was that when a hobby turns into a business (and with customers paying come employees and insurance and complaints) it sorts stops being the carefree effort it once was. My point is that all these endeavors which are not self sustaining eventually become tiresome and have a limited shelf life, mainly because your focus is directed at the outgoing spigot of money followed closely by effort you personally have to pay for to solving problems. People want to be paid for solving problems (unless they are of the machine repair variety in ones own arcade at least for me) Banning was no different, and even my own arcade may eventually succumb to this same problematic dynamic. For now it’s enjoyable enough and is self sustaining. And I do agree that instability in location due to limited term rental is a huge issue and can take one down just as much as setting up at a posh address with high rent and limited customers can. My first location got bulldozed 4 months after we opened (expected but not that quickly), and we almost died. It is interesting to me that people always asks why there are limited opportunities for kids activities in most towns. Simple answer: it doesn’t pay enough relative to the restaurant, laundromat, flower shop, etc that can go in the same space. Simple economics. Despite the revival of arcades, there remains a fundamental business model that has not been fully solved, and for those that have seemingly solved it may be a temporary stay at best

The barcades that have enjoyed some measure of success may fall into a gray area here. (?) Well, for one, they make money from selling alcohol, so this is far from a kid's entertainment model. The pandemic was no better for them though than for many restaurants, which have seen considerable attrition in most locales. And the barcades I'm familiar with have also benefited greatly from the particular owner's indulgence. A different owner might not be so favorably predisposed.

#781 2 years ago

When my cousin in Colorado texts and asks...
You know about this Banning pinball auction?
My 85 year old mom calls and asks...
Did you hear about this pinball auction in banning?
When everyone at works asks.....
You going to Banning this weekend?

I'd say...the whole world knows about Banning, and my buddy in Australia is calling in an hour.

#782 2 years ago

Sorry if I missed this info if it was posted earlier, but is there any way to see the final bid price live as soon as the bid for that items ends, or better still monitor bids as they are made online?

#783 2 years ago
Quoted from fridgejam:

Sorry if I missed this info if it was posted earlier, but is there any way to see the final bid price live as soon as the bid for that items ends, or better still monitor bids as they are made online?

It's live. You will see final hammer price as it happens.

#784 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Note - difference between someone getting paid to push... and the amount of effort put in before.
This kind of press is happening because it's PUSHED out.

Nah, it's happening because the vultures are circling and it's the kind of story that generates clicks. "Pinball and Arcade Museum in Banning, CA open for 3 days this weekend" wasn't ever interesting enough.

-1
#785 2 years ago

Nothing to see Here !!!!!

#786 2 years ago

I think most “normals” seeing these news stories are gonna be shocked & bounce when things aren’t going for a few hundred bucks.

#787 2 years ago
Quoted from Time:

The biggest problem with the auction is you get 3 low rez photos and the only description says, "Evidence of wear and commercial operation." Wow big woop.

Quoted from Knxwledge:

"Evidence of wear and commercial operation" is their generic copy-and-paste message.

Cargument:
Reminds me Barrett-Jackson auctions where every piece of shit vehicle that needs a jump start on the floor and barely idles are always described as: "Fully restored with Original or New Old Stock Parts".

#788 2 years ago

Maybe nobody will show up and I'll take home that JJP POTC CE for $5500

#789 2 years ago

Should be a great auction. Chris at Captains is a great guy and put a lot of hard work into this auction. I wish them success!

#790 2 years ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

When my cousin in Colorado texts and asks...
You know about this Banning pinball auction?
My 85 year old mom calls and asks...
Did you hear about this pinball auction in banning?
When everyone at works asks.....
You going to Banning this weekend?
I'd say...the whole world knows about Banning, and my buddy in Australia is calling in an hour.

Literally every customer thats come into the arcade over the last two weeks has said "Hey are you going to the museum auction..."

#791 2 years ago
Quoted from calprog:

Should be a great auction. Chris at Captains is a great guy and put a lot of hard work into this auction. I wish them success!

Thanks for posting this. It made me realize that as much as we all (including myself) like to bitch about the auction fees, this is a huge undertaking. I also wish them success and in the end, they will have earned their cut.

#792 2 years ago

people are coming from everywhere.
this event is going to be pinballs woodstock.

woodstock (resized).jpgwoodstock (resized).jpg
#793 2 years ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

people are coming from everywhere.
this event is going to be pinballs woodstock.[quoted image]

Was thinking the EXACT same thing today, you beat me to it!

#794 2 years ago
Quoted from Coindork:

Sounds like a great way to turn 150k into 90k.

Better than turning $58M into $0 and a trip to jail

#795 2 years ago
Quoted from Time:

Maybe nobody will show up and I'll take home that JJP POTC CE for $5500

you'll need another zero! haha.

#796 2 years ago

If someone wins some machines tomorrow, and then bids and wins more the following weekend, can they wait and have STI picked them up at the same time?

#797 2 years ago
Quoted from jake35:

If someone wins some machines tomorrow, and then bids and wins more the following weekend, can they wait and have STI picked them up at the same time?

I’ve always found it interesting that we use the term “won” to describe the results of an auction. It’s a convenient one word descriptor as opposed to say the more accurate “I paid more for that machine than anyone else was willing to pay”. Won should really only apply to sweepstakes and the lottery and a baseball game.

#798 2 years ago
Quoted from jake35:

If someone wins some machines tomorrow, and then bids and wins more the following weekend, can they wait and have STI picked them up at the same time?

The terms of the auction state that the games have to be picked up within 5 business days of the sale, so I imagine the answer to your question is no.

12
#799 2 years ago

Tragically, the lesson repeats itself yet again: Never open a "moonbase" amusement business out in the sticks just because the rent is cheap and space is plentiful.

If you build it, they may not come.

I find it is usually best to combine the powerful eye-catching "pull" of pinball with some sort of high-profit "push" item (like alcoholic beverages, or heck, just ordinary beverages). Tim Arnold has repeatedly mentioned his soda machine is his #1 profit earner. Heed his advice.

On my North American pinball tour, Blairally was extremely grateful to have their ball bowler repaired. Not because it made tons of money, but because customers would park in front of it for hours and drink many gallons of beer.

What's the best of all worlds for pinball? In my opinion: Breweries. Every brewery needs a unique draw to pull people further than the local bars, and the inventory sells for top dollar at a price which cannot be undercut... literally selling it at the source.

Contact your local breweries and get some machines in there. They have the space. They have the product. They need the pull. You just might be the answer they've been looking for.

#800 2 years ago
Quoted from uncivil_engineer:

The terms of the auction state that the games have to be picked up within 5 business days of the sale, so I imagine the answer to your question is no.

seems like they should require they be removed from 5 days from the end of the auction. unreasonable to have to have games removed before auction even ends. much cheaper to have them shipped together and I'm sure many people will be bidding both weekends.

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