(Topic ID: 291676)

Banning Pinball Museum to auction their collection

By Steve_in_Escalon

9 months ago


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    There are 4,695 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 94.
    #451 5 months ago
    Quoted from xsvtoys:

    The latest conditions as posted don't read exactly like that. I don't see any distinction made between in-person and online fees. It says 18% for all buyers, with a 3% discount for cash (or bank checks, etc). So you won't get the 15% if you want to use a credit card, it will be 18%.

    Fair enough. The post I was referencing had it listed as such. I see the website is a bit different. Spreadsheet doesn't really change data-wise. I updated the headers and put in a description at the bottom. Hopefully its useful for someone.

    auctionprices (resized).JPG
    #452 5 months ago

    Looks good...

    But what if I want Tron LE???

    #453 5 months ago
    Quoted from The_Pump_House:

    How does the seller make $850 unless they got the machine for free....

    The point is, you, or I, have zero idea of where the net profit point is, and a statement like “Captain’s is going to make all the profit” is hyperbolic nonsense.

    #454 5 months ago
    Quoted from xsvtoys:

    Looks good...
    But what if I want Tron LE???

    Then you may be a business whiz with enough cash to pay a guy to do the math

    Or I can send you the whole spreadsheet which I can extend out to wherever. This filled my screen up haha.

    #455 5 months ago
    Quoted from The_Pump_House:

    How does the seller make $850 unless they got the machine for free....

    You...are aware it also costs money to put on a large-scale auction, no?

    #456 5 months ago

    Having never made it to a Banning show - did the MoP have a selection of non-pinball EM games and similar? Like rifle games, shuffle bowlers, etc?

    #457 5 months ago
    Quoted from Code_Blue:

    Having never made it to a Banning show - did the MoP have a selection of non-pinball EM games and similar? Like rifle games, shuffle bowlers, etc?

    Yes, there is a smattering of just about everything. I'd say about 15-20 gun games. Couple bowlers, etc.

    #458 5 months ago

    Kinda hard to piece this together, but am I understanding this correctly?

    From that game list posted earlier, they had an inventory of approx 700 pins. Pete mentioned around 1200 arcades. So well over 1500+ units in the building.

    Another post mentioned that approx 1000 items will be auctioned, evenly split among pins & arcades. It was also mentioned that many people who loaned games to MOP have already visited & picked up their games in the last month.

    So it seems likely that many of the pins in that game list posted earlier will not be up for auction. I'm guessing some of the rare stuff won't even see the auction floor, or could already be gone. You'll probably have a good chance of finding a great EM though. It will be interesting to see the auction list once its posted & determine if it's worth driving down for the weekend.

    #459 5 months ago

    If you buy online, they will package and ship the game correct (for a fee I am sure)? Thanks.

    These auctions seem to never have great prices, not sure why I’m getting interested in this one. I’m sure the reserves will be huge and the shill bidding will be high.

    #460 5 months ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    Another post mentioned that approx 1000 items will be auctioned, evenly split among pins & arcades. It was also mentioned that many people who loaned games to MOP have already visited & picked up their games in the last month.

    So it seems likely that many of the pins in that game list posted earlier will not be up for auction.

    This was already eluded to before... It's not a total liquidation - they already seemed to be taking a path of what to sell vs keep, when, how, etc. The auction just seems to be a means to deal with the sheer scale of the current collection. They've not talked about emptying all the cubby holes they have.. seems like more just about how to vacate the space they have leased out and maybe reset the size of the hoarde.

    #461 5 months ago
    Quoted from Code_Blue:

    Having never made it to a Banning show - did the MoP have a selection of non-pinball EM games and similar? Like rifle games, shuffle bowlers, etc?

    427C87B8-81DD-4C92-8617-90CF29E890CD_1_105_c (resized).jpeg

    978D10FF-E02B-458C-9F67-13F740852F8A_1_105_c (resized).jpeg

    #462 5 months ago
    Quoted from DudeRegular:

    Based on the fees posted a page or two back, I threw together a quick spreadsheet that tallies the cost for online or in person costs (tax included)

    I do something similar but in the reverse direction. Basically I have a Google sheets doc where I list the games I'm interested in and the max I'm willing to spend on each one, then the spreadsheet shows me how much my max auction bid must be taking all fees into account. That way I don't overbid or get caught up in the auction hoopla.

    #463 5 months ago
    Quoted from Code_Blue:

    Having never made it to a Banning show - did the MoP have a selection of non-pinball EM games and similar? Like rifle games, shuffle bowlers, etc?

    There are tons of EM "other" games. There was a building that had about 20 shooters, and in the back of the arcade room maybe another 20 novelty arcades from ww2 era. Some really cool stuff. We had a tech that loved to tinker on them and got a few playing very well. There are a few racing style EM machines as well. A few bowlers and some Bingos stashed away somewhere. Not sure if this terminology is correct.

    #464 5 months ago

    That space pilot game on the far right works very well. You have to fly around in circles and hit these loop things to score. Pretty fun technology for that era.

    56f55a7e5ec524a4bfb90cbd8e168d5a685531bb (resized).jpg
    #465 5 months ago
    Quoted from Reality_Studio:

    I do something similar but in the reverse direction. Basically I have a Google sheets doc where I list the games I'm interested in and the max I'm willing to spend on each one, then the spreadsheet shows me how much my max auction bid must be taking all fees into account. That way I don't overbid or get caught up in the auction hoopla.

    I like that! Makes a ton of sense. This one could easily be manipulated as well. I can share it if anyone wants it.

    #466 5 months ago
    Quoted from DudeRegular:

    I like that! Makes a ton of sense. This one could easily be manipulated as well. I can share it if anyone wants it.

    Yeah it's convenient, I added a sample pic. I go with 18% buyers premium and 7.75% tax, with the tax adding on top of the hammer price + buyers premium. The math seems to work out to:

    (Your Max Price) / 1.27145

    So people can just spreadsheet that. In the case of the attached pic cell C2's formula is =B2/1.27145

    auction (resized).jpg
    #467 5 months ago

    I'm just going to say with that many machines for sale with auction dates so close together
    people will run out of money real quick, the high priced games( new sterns, dmd William/bally, etc) will dry out certain buyers fast.

    There will be bargains but Captain might buy these or Co operate and you see these back over months to come in their auctions if that happens.

    I'm putting $50K to the side now to buy what I want in September so best of luck to the guy that wanted his Three games

    If anyone is looking for pick up/packing/transport from the auction site let me know
    I can arrange this at around $95.00 per game ( shrink wrapped with 1 blanket) extra Blanket $15.00
    any condition of the machine when we pick it up were not responsible for !!

    I do have a max of XX amount of machines, let me know in time to set you up with details

    Added 131 days ago:

    no longer possible to pick up anything for anyone
    blame ANT68 for it

    #468 5 months ago
    Quoted from rvdv:

    If anyone is looking for pick up/packing/transport from the auction site let me know
    I can arrange this at around $95.00 per game ( shrink wrapped with 1 blanket) extra Blanket $15.00
    any condition of the machine when we pick it up were not responsible for !!

    I marked your post as a key post. I’ll be taking you up on this offer and really appreciate it. Will pm to coordinate. Thanks.

    #469 5 months ago
    Quoted from rvdv:

    There will be bargains but Captain might buy these or Co operate and you see these back over months to come in their auctions if that happens.

    Naïve question alert, are they ethically allowed to do that? That would be like a realtor bidding on a house she is also hired to sell, just seems shady.

    12
    #470 5 months ago
    Quoted from Reality_Studio:

    Naïve question alert, are they ethically allowed to do that? That would be like a realtor bidding on a house she is also hired to sell, just seems shady.

    Hahaha, arcade auctions…ethical…you are hilarious.

    Captains auctions are basically consignment sales, and sales of their own stuff. You pay what they want you to pay….they’re not true auctions like the old days.

    #471 5 months ago

    ...and with internet bidding you don't even have to disguise the shill(s).

    #472 5 months ago
    Quoted from rvdv:

    I'm just going to say with that many machines for sale with auction dates so close together
    people will run out of money real quick, the high priced games( new sterns, dmd William/bally, etc) will dry out certain buyers fast.
    There will be bargains ...

    I'm going to say that is wishful thinking. I think the "many machines" available will be outweighed by the many more bidders. Sure, a few might get excited and blow their wad early, but the overall pool of money is not going to dry up.

    It sounded a lot more appealing before I heard the Captain and his premiums will be involved. I was planning to come, but not sure now. I am curious though, do out-of-staters pay the sales tax? I don't think I did last time I was there, but maybe things have changed.

    #473 5 months ago
    Quoted from HighVoltage:

    I am curious though, do out-of-staters pay the sales tax? I don't think I did last time I was there, but maybe things have changed.

    f3e (resized).jpeg

    #474 5 months ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Hahaha, arcade auctions…ethical…you are hilarious.
    Captains auctions are basically consignment sales, and sales of their own stuff. You pay what they want you to pay….they’re not true auctions like the old days.

    I mean I know there are always shill bidders and such, like people bidding on their own auctions because it's cheap to just relist then again at a future auction, etc. However if a bunch of pins all of a sudden end up in Captain's inventory right after Captain's was hired to sell them off, then there's ethical questions there. For one, did they try to get the best price for the client or were they just hammered off quickly so they could acquire them? I mean does the owner of Mecum auctions bid on cars in his own auctions to add to his own collection? Perhaps that's normal and they all do it, but it just seems like a conflict of interest to me.

    #475 5 months ago
    Quoted from Reality_Studio:

    However if a bunch of pins all of a sudden end up in Captain's inventory right after Captain's was hired to sell them off, then there's ethical questions there. For one, did they try to get the best price for the client or were they just hammered off quickly so they could acquire them? I mean does the owner of Mecum auctions bid on cars in his own auctions to add to his own collection? Perhaps that's normal and they all do it, but it just seems like a conflict of interest to me.

    They will have that worked out in advance with their client…their client will approve things not being sold for a reserve and the client will know they will shill bid up to the reserve. The prior statement is just my personal opinion, I have no insider information and of course could be wrong.

    #476 5 months ago
    Quoted from Reality_Studio:

    I mean I know there are always shill bidders and such, like people bidding on their own auctions because it's cheap to just relist then again at a future auction, etc. However if a bunch of pins all of a sudden end up in Captain's inventory right after Captain's was hired to sell them off, then there's ethical questions there. For one, did they try to get the best price for the client or were they just hammered off quickly so they could acquire them? I mean does the owner of Mecum auctions bid on cars in his own auctions to add to his own collection? Perhaps that's normal and they all do it, but it just seems like a conflict of interest to me.

    I've seen them bid and buy stuff at their own auctions on rare occasions. It's pretty much always when there isn't as much interest as there should be on something, not a case of them hammering more quickly than usual or some other sleight of hand to cheat everyone else bidding out of the item.

    #477 5 months ago
    Quoted from Code_Blue:

    I've seen them bid and buy stuff at their own auctions on rare occasions. It's pretty much always when there isn't as much interest as there should be on something, not a case of them hammering more quickly than usual or some other sleight of hand to cheat everyone else bidding out of the item.

    Ah you're right that has happened at a Mecum auction, and follows TigerLaw's theory as well. So maybe they have the authorization to bid if a listing is just too low or below some agreed upon "virtual reserve", that would make sense.

    #478 5 months ago
    Quoted from Reality_Studio:

    I mean I know there are always shill bidders and such, like people bidding on their own auctions because it's cheap to just relist then again at a future auction, etc. However if a bunch of pins all of a sudden end up in Captain's inventory right after Captain's was hired to sell them off, then there's ethical questions there. For one, did they try to get the best price for the client or were they just hammered off quickly so they could acquire them? I mean does the owner of Mecum auctions bid on cars in his own auctions to add to his own collection? Perhaps that's normal and they all do it, but it just seems like a conflict of interest to me.

    Oh I see. I don’t see them fake-selling the games to themselves at a low price if bids are coming in. But - I can still see them buying stuff thinking they can sell it later at their auction for a few bucks more plus auction fees (again).

    #479 5 months ago

    So, dumb question here. Looks like there is 1-2 titles here that I might be interested in. But I'm in Florida... which is a long way from California (or so i hear )

    So assuming I won a bid, I'm going to have to find some other person to pick it up from the auction floor, pack it, and then arrange for another shipper to pick up from this other person to get it to me? I assume Captain has no shipping services, like Mecum has?

    Sounds fairly daunting.

    #480 5 months ago
    Quoted from Clnilsen:

    So, dumb question here. Looks like there is 1-2 titles here that I might be interested in. But I'm in Florida... which is a long way from California (or so i hear )
    So assuming I won a bid, I'm going to have to find some other person to pick it up from the auction floor, pack it, and then arrange for another shipper to pick up from this other person to get it to me? I assume Captain has no shipping services, like Mecum has?
    Sounds fairly daunting.

    I'll do it for ten Bitcoin.

    #481 5 months ago
    Quoted from Clnilsen:

    So, dumb question here. Looks like there is 1-2 titles here that I might be interested in. But I'm in Florida... which is a long way from California (or so i hear )
    So assuming I won a bid, I'm going to have to find some other person to pick it up from the auction floor, pack it, and then arrange for another shipper to pick up from this other person to get it to me? I assume Captain has no shipping services, like Mecum has?
    Sounds fairly daunting.

    Of course Captain's has shipping services they work with - it's plastered all over their site.

    Also no games list has been released yet.

    #482 5 months ago
    Quoted from DudeRegular:

    Fair enough. The post I was referencing had it listed as such. I see the website is a bit different. Spreadsheet doesn't really change data-wise. I updated the headers and put in a description at the bottom. Hopefully its useful for someone.
    [quoted image]

    [This will be a lengthy post.]

    Thanks for providing that spreadsheet. It should prove a useful guide to potential bidders.
    Before I get into some comment on the MoP auction, some general observations.

    1) Unless a game is rare and hard to find (in reasonably good condition, whatever your standards for that may be), pins are not that hard to buy -- provided you have the scratch. When the time comes that you need to sell them however, probably a very different story, unless you are willing to take a dive on the selling price. Little about selling it will be easy. (If your experience turns out to be otherwise, I salute you.)

    2) Pins are prone to boom and bust cycles. (Over enough time, you've probably seen this for yourself.) To most outward appearance, at the moment we are in the Boom. If you paid significantly more than you should have for a pin, chances are very good that when you go to sell it in 2 years or in 5 or 8, you will end up taking that dive, and not approach the money you put into it.

    3) Despite the vaunted "resurgence of Pinball" of recent years, the uptick in pin "museums", arcades, barcades & etc. -- those that managed not to fold under the pandemic, that is -- we remain a niche community. 90-some % of the people you pass on the street in your city don't know or care about pinball. A random sampling of those people may turn up the occasional comment of "Yeah, it would be cool to own one." I've heard this many times, probably you have too. But how many of those casual commenters would actually pull the trigger on buying one ? There are still operators who will buy inventory, but side note: bowling alleys anywhere near me have all but gone extinct during the pandemic. Restaurants and bars haven't fared too well either.

    4) The valuations we see in looking up the specs on many games at Pinside seem to be on the low end, not up to date.

    5) A lot of prices are up -- I get that. Just refilled a prescription and it was triple what I paid last November. That's inexcusable.

    Back to the spreadsheet. Examples: A DMD that turns up in tournaments sometimes. It didn't enjoy a high production #, but I wouldn't consider it a particular favorite among pinfans. (No, I'm choosing not to name it.) Pinside lists a high value on this game of around $4,500. Almost certainly too low though, by today's real world selling prices. I've never seen that famous (and controversial) price list you had to pay for, but the BostonPinballBiz spreadsheet of historical eBay sales shows a high end of the price range at $5,000. That won't reflect a real world price *today*, either. So, let's guesstimate that the MoP auction closed it at $7,000. (Wouldn't shock me if that proved too low a guess.) Take that to the right edge of the thread Post #451 spreadsheet, and you're at $8,800. A friend of mine in the hobby who has rather different game preferences than I do is likely to say "Forget it ! I can get the latest Stern NIB for less than that. And it won't have the same extent of maintenance issues !" But maybe he's a bit offbase when it comes to what current Sterns NIB are costing ?

    Next case. I can picture another, more highly desired DMD closing in the 12K to 15K range. (That may not even shed as many potential bidders as you might at first think.) By the time you get to the right edge of that spreadsheet, you're possibly looking at over 18K. That's where I really have to stop and wonder. I've seen and played an example of this very same pin that was beautifully, most impressively restored by a near-legendary pin restorer, whose name unfortunately escapes me just now. His work always commanded a premium price. Paying 18K for *his* version of this DMD, which had been in a primarily HUO environment where it got star treatment, might not be a ridiculous conversation. But compare that with paying 18K for the MoP edition, which has been subjected to who knows what for how long, and repaired an unknown number of times ? Does that still compute for you ?

    And finally, it will be very interesting to see which pins may get withheld from the auction -- for whatever reasons, which we may never know. There were titles I'd never seen anywhere else. For example, would you even consider buying that "Aliens" widebody ? I don't know whether the code for it ever got finished before the company went bust, but I never saw that game in action without certain features being broken, and with it acting up in weird ways.

    #483 5 months ago
    Quoted from Reality_Studio:

    Ah you're right that has happened at a Mecum auction, and follows TigerLaw's theory as well. So maybe they have the authorization to bid if a listing is just too low or below some agreed upon "virtual reserve", that would make sense.

    And as always at the large car auctions: "It has been fully restored using OEM or NOS parts"......

    #484 5 months ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    And as always at the large car auctions: "It has been fully restored using OEM or NOS parts"......

    Or True Barn Find, Only 4376 Original Plays

    #485 5 months ago
    Quoted from bob_e:

    Or True Barn Find, Only 4376 Original Plays

    Or Texas/AZ/CA car it's entire life.

    #486 5 months ago
    Quoted from bob_e:

    Or True Barn Find, Only 4376 Original Plays

    There’s a crap ton of barns in this country that are used to store valuables.

    #487 5 months ago

    I really hate this museum shut down and the collection will be broken up. Unfortunately, I never got to go see it in person. That being said, I would imagine for the owner, this is the best time imaginable to auction off a collection like this in terms of what type of return he will see on the investment of the games. Prices are just absolutely nuts lately.

    #488 5 months ago
    Quoted from The_Director:

    I really hate this museum shut down and the collection will be broken up. Unfortunately, I never got to go see it in person. That being said, I would imagine for the owner, this is the best time imaginable to auction off a collection like this in terms of what type of return he will see on the investment of the games. Prices are just absolutely nuts lately.

    There’s been a lot of comments about return on investment regarding the collection.
    Sure, many things will bring record prices, but I think many will not.
    One thing to also consider is that John paid top dollar to acquire many of the machines for the Museum. In several cases he paid exorbitant price to acquire key pieces where he will get back no where near what he paid for them (especially considering the auction fees etc).
    Quite frankly they had a few games shoved up their ass at absurd prices under the guise that “the museum needs this”.
    Sure a lot of the machine that we’re bought ages ago will perform well compared to the price paid, but many will not.
    Honestly he would have been way better off putting the money in real estate or something similar.
    I’m thankful for what he created there for the time it existed and cherish the times I spent at the museum.
    Hopefully I can pick up a few machines in the auction.
    Going to target a few that are near and dear to me.

    #489 5 months ago
    Quoted from Coindork:

    There’s been a lot of comments about return on investment regarding the collection.
    Sure, many things will bring record prices, but I think many will not.
    One thing to also consider is that John paid top dollar to acquire many of the machines for the Museum. In several cases he paid exorbitant price to acquire key pieces where he will get back no where near what he paid for them (especially considering the auction fees etc).
    Quite frankly they had a few games shoved up their ass at absurd prices under the guise that “the museum needs this”.
    Sure a lot of the machine that we’re bought ages ago will perform well compared to the price paid, but many will not.
    Honestly he would have been way better off putting the money in real estate or something similar.
    I’m thankful for what he created there for the time it existed and cherish the times I spent at the museum.
    Hopefully I can pick up a few machines in the auction.
    Going to target a few that are near and dear to me.

    I'm curios to see how much the Namco Mach Thunder and Star Wars Battle Pod go for (if they sell).

    #490 5 months ago

    Auctions stink. You end up tacking on 20-25 percent in taxes and fees - and no matter how good you are at math, your brain still has trouble comprehending the hammer price.

    The main advantage here are some rare games (though who knows if all that stuff is gonna be for sale) and of course one-stop shopping if you are looking to seriously beef up your collection.

    I'll be watching out of curiosity for sure but I'm staying out of the fray on this one!

    #491 5 months ago
    Quoted from Coindork:

    There’s been a lot of comments about return on investment regarding the collection.
    Sure, many things will bring record prices, but I think many will not.
    One thing to also consider is that John paid top dollar to acquire many of the machines for the Museum. In several cases he paid exorbitant price to acquire key pieces where he will get back no where near what he paid for them (especially considering the auction fees etc).

    Midway The Grid went for $4k today. A broken Revenge From Mars went for $3600. Fish Tales $4300. Gottlieb Wipeout $2900.

    He's going to do just fine.

    #492 5 months ago
    Quoted from Code_Blue:

    Midway The Grid went for $4k today. A broken Revenge From Mars went for $3600. Fish Tales $4300. Gottlieb Wipeout $2900.
    He's going to do just fine.

    So, did the auction start early or was this a SECRET auction?

    #493 5 months ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    So did the auction start early or was this a SECRET auction?

    A regular Captain's Auction, not Banning-related.

    #494 5 months ago
    Quoted from Code_Blue:

    Midway The Grid went for $4k today. A broken Revenge From Mars went for $3600. Fish Tales $4300. Gottlieb Wipeout $2900.
    He's going to do just fine.

    Zaxxon sold for $1400. Yup, he'll do ok.

    #495 5 months ago
    Quoted from Code_Blue:

    Midway The Grid went for $4k today. A broken Revenge From Mars went for $3600. Fish Tales $4300. Gottlieb Wipeout $2900.
    He's going to do just fine.

    Yeah I watched a bit of that. One thing for sure is that he cranks those out, most of them seemed to last 3 or 4 minutes and they were done. I watched a half dozen or so pinballs and they sold like clockwork as far as the hammer price. You could predict the selling price for every one, just look up the median selling price in the Pinside database and they consistently sold for $200-400 above that. And that’s before the fees.

    #496 5 months ago
    Quoted from Reality_Studio:

    Zaxxon sold for $1400. Yup, he'll do ok.

    #497 5 months ago

    Good lord. And that’s before taxes and fees? Who are these idiots paying those prices?

    Quoted from Code_Blue:

    Midway The Grid went for $4k today. A broken Revenge From Mars went for $3600. Fish Tales $4300. Gottlieb Wipeout $2900.
    He's going to do just fine.

    Quoted from Reality_Studio:

    Zaxxon sold for $1400. Yup, he'll do ok.

    #498 5 months ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    Good lord. And that’s before taxes and fees? Who are these idiots paying those prices?

    Here’s a few more. It’s almost 11 and there are still more than 100 items to go.

    Comet 2,000 TMNJ 6,600 Demolition Man 2,800 Sharkeys Shootout 2,600 Space Shuttle 1,700

    Tempest 2,100 Joust 1600 Centipede 2,500 Ms Pacman 1,200 Frogger 1,500 Pacman 1,200

    #499 5 months ago

    Superauctions used to cap seller fees at $100per item and discount on 25 items. I Don’t know How Captains auction does it. John is providing the auction site, so you would figure some sort of discount would be negotiated.

    #500 5 months ago
    Quoted from xsvtoys:

    Here’s a few more. It’s almost 11 and there are still more than 100 items to go.
    Comet 2,000 TMNJ 6,600 Demolition Man 2,800 Sharkeys Shootout 2,600 Space Shuttle 1,700
    Tempest 2,100 Joust 1600 Centipede 2,500 Ms Pacman 1,200 Frogger 1,500 Pacman 1,200

    I don’t think I’m going to bother with this auction. Centipede is a fine classic, but $2500? I paid under $500 for mine 8 or 9 years ago. Was it restored by HEP or something?

    There are 4,695 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 94.

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