Kings of Steel
Bally, 1984Hi guys, My Ballys Kings of steel is constantly rebooting. Drop targets on the left are constantly dropping then going up after the machine boots. I am not sure that it has booted up all the way.
The machine worked fine and was completely playable less than 4 weeks ago. Iam just not sure what to do.
Thanks ,
Randall
image1 (7) (resized).jpegPretty sure Kings of Steel resets the drop bank at bootup. Disconnect the solenoid drive connections from the solenoid driver board (that's the 2 .156 connectors on the left side, and the horizontal .156 on the bottom... leave the 2 .100 connectors on the right.). Game will still boot up just no solenoids will fire. This will eliminate the drop bank as being problematic.... if it boots all the way, great, you have a solenoid issue, possibly on the drop bank. If it doesn't, you have more gremlins to chase. Next, disconnect the switch matrix connections from the MPU board - that's J2 and J3 on the right side. (Sometimes a slam switch or a coin switch will foul up the MPU if it sees it as always closed)
I like to start barebones and work up from there.... mpu board first, lamp, sound boards, and displays disconnected; get that going. Then add in boards.... displays first, one at a time, then the lamp driver board, then the aux lamp driver board (if used), then the sound board.
What do you mean by "constantly"? Is it just resetting over and over constantly? Once in a while during a game? Attract mode? Anything specific seem to be triggering it? I've had bad flipper coil diodes cause resetting on old Ballys.
Quoted from slochar:Pretty sure Kings of Steel resets the drop bank at bootup. Disconnect the solenoid drive connections from the solenoid driver board (that's the 2 .156 connectors on the left side, and the horizontal .156 on the bottom... leave the 2 .100 connectors on the right.). Game will still boot up just no solenoids will fire. This will eliminate the drop bank as being problematic.... if it boots all the way, great, you have a solenoid issue, possibly on the drop bank. If it doesn't, you have more gremlins to chase. Next, disconnect the switch matrix connections from the MPU board - that's J2 and J3 on the right side. (Sometimes a slam switch or a coin switch will foul up the MPU if it sees it as always closed)
I like to start barebones and work up from there.... mpu board first, lamp, sound boards, and displays disconnected; get that going. Then add in boards.... displays first, one at a time, then the lamp driver board, then the aux lamp driver board (if used), then the sound board.
Thank you so much for your guidance. I Ill get to work and check it out. Thanks again.
Quoted from grantopia:What do you mean by "constantly"? Is it just resetting over and over constantly? Once in a while during a game? Attract mode? Anything specific seem to be triggering it? I've had bad flipper coil diodes cause resetting on old Ballys.
So once the game boots. its fine. The displays just cycles through the high score . When I coin up the game, thats when all hell breaks loose and shit goes crazy. Drop targets constantly reseting up/dopwn. Flippers and bumpers work, but the scoring is off and then finally the machine like quits in similar to a "tilt". The flippers stop but machine continues to constantly reset which is crazy. The machine worked flawlessly three weeks ago. Then sat in my shop, nobody touched it. Turned it on yesterday and this is the problem im having.
Quoted from BigAl56:Maybe a bad 5v filter cap? Battery damage? Can you post pics of the boards in the backbox?Yes, Friday or saturday i will be able to post photos of the back box. I also have an update with photos but wont have time to post until later. THanks
Ok, so i have been able to get the machine to boot up properly. but when coined the left drop targets repeatedly reset until the game finally times out.
I got the game into the self test mode by pressing the coin door switch. As I enter the "Stuck switch Test" the machine beeps and is stuck on 35 on the screen as if switch 35 is closed. When i press lets say the start button on the coin door it overides the 35 on the screen and shows 16 until i let off the switch.
In the "Switch matrix- diagram table" i have not been able to find switch 35. So my question, am i not finding switch 35? or does the machine automatically say 35 of the led screens when moved into "self test-stuck switch mode"? see photo 1.
Photo 2 us of a switch in the coin door on left side of machine. A type of "tilt" switch. It looks bent out of shape and I am wondering if that could be the problem?
I will post photos of the boards in the back box next. There is no battery pack on this board setup. Maybe whatever problem i am having is with the current single battery soldered to the board. Ill send photos of that Saturday at the latest.
Thanks again,
Randall
image1 (9) (resized).jpegimage2 (6) (resized).jpeg35 is the Q drop target. You need all the drops to be up or the switch test won't be able to tell you anything.
Switches can be found on page 17 of the manual.
https://www.ipdb.org/files/1382/Bally_1984_Kings_of_Steel_English_Manual_Schematics.pdf
Here is a photo of my back box. As you can see there is not a battery pack. My pin is doing some really really whacky shit. Im wondering if its my MPU? I got the game to play for a few hours, was messing with the lights in the back box trying to get them all to illuminate. The game for about 30 minutes , lit up and the play field was beautiful with all the LED's. Very bright and amazing. Then all hell broke loose, lights went dim again, and I also lost the left flippers. WTF? lol. The super super crazy thing is that the left flipper button when pressed while playing the game would then actuate of the 3 circular bumpers in the middle of the playfield. So confused.
- Not solenoid, not switch, not sound board. Has to be MPU ?????!!!!???? Help.
Thanks everyone.
image1 (10) (resized).jpegCouple things--here's the battery on your mpu, it's the white cylinder soldered in at the bottom-middle:
Screenshot_20190928_061215_org.mozilla.firefox(1).jpg
I'd cut it off asap. It's also possible the battery has leaked on the board to some degree. If you post some more pics of the mpu, we can probably give some further advice. There are several choices when replacing the battery: a coin-style battery w/holder, a memory capacitor, or NVRAM (difference is primarily cost, convenience, and how long they're good for). Without the battery connected, the game won't store certain settings, but that shouldn't matter while you're troubleshooting this problem.
Are you experienced with circuit board soldering?
Another thing: you want to verify proper voltages at the rectifier board. The rectifier board is wired to the transformer, and is typically located in the backbox or mounted on the bottom of the cabinet (you can open the coin door and look inside the cabinet to see if it's there). Those boards tend to have burnt connectors, so you may need to repair/replace that board and the female connectors that plug into it in order to get it sending proper voltages up to the solenoid driver board. There are test points on the rectifier board that make it easy to check with your multimeter.
Once you've verified good voltages at the rectifier board, you'll want to verify good voltages at the solenoid driver board. There are several test points on the board that you can measure them at as well. Looks like you have the original +5v filter capacitor at C23 on that board (the big blue capacitor), it's recommended to replace that, since resets can often be due to low/weak +5v supply to the mpu.
There's also a variety of male and female connectors that should likely be re-flowed and/or replaced on the mpu, solenoid driver board, and rectifier board for long term reliability.
First things first though: gotta verify the voltages. Do you have a meter, and are you familiar with testing ac and dc voltages?
I also found a bad power connection on the power supply which when connected better brought up all the lights. I was super happy about that.
However I do have a few major problems.
1. I lost both flippers on the left side of the game. When I press the flipper button enough it actuates a thunder bumper and a couple other things periodically
Q6 on the solenoid board is bad - (aslo Q16-Q17 which ever ones are on the very end are bad.
image2 (7) (resized).jpegimage3 (1) (resized).jpegProblem 2
when looking for proper voltage at the solenoid board I used the test loop labled ground with my black lead and put the red test lead on
TP6 and got 3v - TP7 nothing, and when testing TP3, i blew a fuse on the power supply. Super crazy to me. any help/guidance is very appreciated. Thank you .
image1 (12) (resized).jpegQuoted from vendingjunkie:Update.
I installed a lithium battery to replace the original on the board.
Did you put a blocking diode in with it? It'll try to charge the lithium battery otherwise.
Quoted from slochar:Did you put a blocking diode in with it? It'll try to charge the lithium battery otherwise.
I did not. Thank you for the tip. I hope radio shack has one.
Quoted from frunch:Couple things--here's the battery on your mpu, it's the white cylinder soldered in at the bottom-middle:
[quoted image]
I'd cut it off asap. It's also possible the battery has leaked on the board to some degree. If you post some more pics of the mpu, we can probably give some further advice. There are several choices when replacing the battery: a coin-style battery w/holder, a memory capacitor, or NVRAM (difference is primarily cost, convenience, and how long they're good for). Without the battery connected, the game won't store certain settings, but that shouldn't matter while you're troubleshooting this problem.
Are you experienced with circuit board soldering?
Another thing: you want to verify proper voltages at the rectifier board. The rectifier board is wired to the transformer, and is typically located in the backbox or mounted on the bottom of the cabinet (you can open the coin door and look inside the cabinet to see if it's there). Those boards tend to have burnt connectors, so you may need to repair/replace that board and the female connectors that plug into it in order to get it sending proper voltages up to the solenoid driver board. There are test points on the rectifier board that make it easy to check with your multimeter.
Once you've verified good voltages at the rectifier board, you'll want to verify good voltages at the solenoid driver board. There are several test points on the board that you can measure them at as well. Looks like you have the original +5v filter capacitor at C23 on that board (the big blue capacitor), it's recommended to replace that, since resets can often be due to low/weak +5v supply to the mpu.
There's also a variety of male and female connectors that should likely be re-flowed and/or replaced on the mpu, solenoid driver board, and rectifier board for long term reliability.
First things first though: gotta verify the voltages. Do you have a meter, and are you familiar with testing ac and dc voltages?
any ideas to my latest post? Thank you
Hmm, well heard to say what happened there. As long as both leads from the meter were only touching the two test points, that shouldn't have happened. Either way, which fuse blew? I would remove the solenoid driver board and get a look at the back side of it.
For the meantime, remove the battery from the mpu and leave it off until everything is working properly (or you install the blocking diode, but I personally would just leave it off for the moment)...
You'll likely need to do a bit of connector and capacitor replacement on the solenoid driver board, along with a few transistors on it as well.
Have you replaced any connectors on the rectifier board? The power going up to the the solenoid driver board starts at the rectifier board, so any wrong/missing voltages there can impact the readings you'll get at the SDB.
Quoted from frunch:Hmm, well heard to say what happened there. As long as both leads from the meter were only touching the two test points, that shouldn't have happened. Either way, which fuse blew? I would remove the solenoid driver board and get a look at the back side of it.
For the meantime, remove the battery from the mpu and leave it off until everything is working properly (or you install the blocking diode, but I personally would just leave it off for the moment)...
You'll likely need to do a bit of connector and capacitor replacement on the solenoid driver board, along with a few transistors on it as well.
Have you replaced any connectors on the rectifier board? The power going up to the the solenoid driver board starts at the rectifier board, so any wrong/missing voltages there can impact the readings you'll get at the SDB.
Ok, Ill remove the battery and remove the solonied driver board and check behind it. Doing some super wonky stuff.
The fuse that blew on the rectifier board was F3
kings of steel rectifier board (resized).JPGQuoted from frunch:F3 is for the 12 dc volts circuit, which gets converted to 5 volts on the solenoid driver board. If everything looks ok on the solenoid driver board, replace the fuse in F3 and see if it blows when you turn the game on.
Ok, Ill do that this morning and report back this evening. Super weird to blow a fuse testing voltages on the test loops. Ill get back to you . Thanks again.
Quoted from frunch:F3 is for the 12 dc volts circuit, which gets converted to 5 volts on the solenoid driver board. If everything looks ok on the solenoid driver board, replace the fuse in F3 and see if it blows when you turn the game on.
Took the solenoid driver board down. everything looked ok. The only thing i could think of is the metalic coated back box area behind the circuit boards being warped and shorting a bunch of shit out. Either way, I found several mosfets that have blown. Maybe 6.
Voltages on the Solenoid driver board were all right around 10volts except for 1 that was like 40ish Volts.
Fuse did now blow again. Not sure what happend.
Voltages on the MPU via the test loops. The top loop read nothing. The rest were all like 10 volts. maybe one just under 5v.
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