Quoted from Ballypin:Game is missing the chrome crossbar at the upper flipper and the upper flipper is white rather than matching the lower red/orange flippers.
1) Should be able to replicate the cross bar with thin stainless steel flat stock or shim stock. A few minutes to give it some shine with a buffing wheel and no one would know the difference.
2) Chevrolet hugger orange looks pretty close!
20200207_192640 (resized).jpg
Quoted from gdonovan:2) Chevrolet hugger orange looks pretty close!
[quoted image]
After checking the flyer and all the pics on IPDB, it appears that white flippers with raised letters are "stock" for the lower zipper and upper left flippers.1980f1 (resized).jpg
However, my Surfers has 3 matching orange flippers with raised letters.
Quoted from Ballypin:After checking the flyer and all the pics on IPDB, it appears that white flippers with raised letters are "stock" for the lower zipper and upper left flippers.[quoted image]
However, my Surfers has 3 matching orange flippers with raised letters.
Yup but I was fresh out.
With some regret, I am (for now at least) out of the zipper flipper club. I sold my four zipper flipper games to help fund my daughter's college tuition. The same collector bought all four games (plus two others).
Consequently, I have surplus Bally parts available for zipper flipper games as depicted:
*scarce add-a-ball relay
*apron with new decal
*coin door with plate and chute
*nice extra coin plate
*25 cent and other coin mechanisms
*vinyl canopy glass channel
*score reels with coils
*some schematics/manuals
*perhaps other parts
Message me, if interested. Pinside donation will be made attendant to a sale.
Games recently sold were Surfers, Rocket III, MiniZag and Cosmos.
20200704_224555 (resized).jpg20200705_181559 (resized).jpg20200705_181651 (resized).jpg20200705_181734 (resized).jpg20200705_183208 (resized).jpg20200705_174326 (resized).jpgQuoted from ZNET:With some regret, I am (for now at least) out of the zipper flipper club. I sold my four zipper flipper games to help fund my daughter's college tuition. The same collector bought all four games (plus two others).
Consequently, I have surplus Bally parts available for zipper flipper games as depicted:
*scarce add-a-ball relay
*apron with new decal
*coin door with plate and chute
*nice extra coin plate
*25 cent and other coin mechanisms
*vinyl canopy glass channel
*score reels with coils
*some schematics/manuals
*perhaps other parts
Message me, if interested. Pinside donation will be made attendant to a sale.
Games recently sold were Surfers, Rocket III, MiniZag and Cosmos.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Here are a few more available items.
20200705_195210 (resized).jpg20200705_194437 (resized).jpgQuoted from ZNET:With some regret, I am (for now at least) out of the zipper flipper club. I sold my four zipper flipper games to help fund my daughter's college tuition. The same collector bought all four games (plus two others).
Consequently, I have surplus Bally parts available for zipper flipper games as depicted:
*scarce add-a-ball relay
*apron with new decal
*coin door with plate and chute
*nice extra coin plate
*25 cent and other coin mechanisms
*vinyl canopy glass channel
*score reels with coils
*some schematics/manuals
*perhaps other parts
Message me, if interested. Pinside donation will be made attendant to a sale.
Games recently sold were Surfers, Rocket III, MiniZag and Cosmos.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Credit wheel in condition as shown available.
20200705_202130 (resized).jpg20200705_202209 (resized).jpgHello fellow hobbyists. Thank you for your messages regarding the above Bally parts. Please give me a couple of days to reply.
If I fail to reply by Wednesday, please message me again to ensure that I have not overlooked your message.
Hello all, just finished acquiring and getting a Rocket iii going mechanically, and came across this great club.
I had a couple of gameplay questions that I was curious about, and hoping anyone with more experience with this title could help me out with:
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* What pitch are you running? I typically like to set my EMs up to play pretty fast, with the back legs hiked out, and the front all the way in I am at about 5'. It seems pretty quick, and a good level of challenge. I then discovered a score card that indicated scoring of fair, good, average, etc.. and those scores seemed REALLY high. Anyway, just wondering about other setups and average scores I guess.
* When you advance to certain letters, you can light special, and the open gate. These are only lit when the flippers are in the open position, and unlight when the flippers are closed. expected? (sorry, just occurred to me I could check scematics.. but figured I'd just ask since I have this list 
)
* Anyone ever do a mod to score a bonus on completing a single planet advance? I feel like with my setup, I am lucky to complete this once or twice per game... but the settings points/replay seem to be related to the post neptune planet advance?
* Just wanted to confirm that with the AAB add-on and configuration, it only holds a single ball for shoot again on advance past Neptune and /or Scoring thresholds? Furthermore, this disables the credit wheel and knocker?
* Anybody ever see a original rubber ring size guide for this title?
Thank you! -koji (Attaching pic of my new friend.. still cosmetic work to do.. but coming along...).
20200703_004536 (resized).jpgHi koji I own a Rocket III and can comment on some of your points
Quoted from koji:* When you advance to certain letters, you can light special, and the open gate. These are only lit when the flippers are in the open position, and unlight when the flippers are closed. expected? (sorry, just occurred to me I could check scematics.. but figured I'd just ask since I have this list )
Correct
Quoted from koji:* Just wanted to confirm that with the AAB add-on and configuration, it only holds a single ball for shoot again on advance past Neptune and /or Scoring thresholds? Furthermore, this disables the credit wheel and knocker?
Correct, enabling the "Added Ball" disables the Replays and Knocker (see my thread below). It awards a single "Shoot Again" (per the backglass lamp) for the ball in play, which is cancelled anyway if the return gate is open and used! The normally unused switch at the top of the shooter lane arch cancels it.
Quoted from koji:* Anybody ever see a original rubber ring size guide for this title?
I've never seen one, I use a ring chart off an Ebay kit.
Do you have the Added Ball kit? It lights the lamp on the apron too which is pretty cool. I started a couple of threads on this machine, which resulted in making the relay and enabling the knocker for "Shoot Again" award;
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-rocket-iii-apron-credit-lamp-wiring
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/adding-knocker-to-bally-aab-added-ball-kit-models
Quoted from koji:* Anyone ever do a mod to score a bonus on completing a single planet advance? I feel like with my setup, I am lucky to complete this once or twice per game... but the settings points/replay seem to be related to the post neptune planet advance?
Yes this is very hard to achieve in a single game if starting from Mercury, but can be set to a big award like 3 Replays, and as this feature carrys over between games it would encourage continued play and coins.
For the machines era I've never understood why the planet series doesn't include Pluto.
Cool, thanks for the links.
Would you mind sharing your ring chart? just curious. I replaced mine as best I could, but the rubber was quite old, and completely stretched out.. so I just approximated and made sure it had a pretty tight stretch. lol.
No, I do not have the AAB kit unfortunately. I've got my eyes open for the parts tho.. I have a spare WMS 4 stack, not sure if I can use that.. if so, I'd just need a 2x5 male jones connector and a Bally high ~75ohm? hold coil? I don't think any of my other parts are very close here, so I'll need to keep my eyes open. Curious to try it.. I hate looking at configuration options I can't access
Any game set up advice? I quite like it so far.. frustratingly fun, just keep going for one more game. My posts are on the liberal setting, but the outlanes are still massive.
One other mechanical question that occurred to me is that I noticed after Neptune there is a advance that is empty, and then you hit is again and it starts at Mercury.. is this expected or is there something else that should go on?
I noticed a video where they had flashing lights in the arch.. thought that looked neat.. forgot to check schematics to see if the blinkers are indicated.
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I was dissappointed by the way the flippers are inset so much from the slings, you really don't have much chance to do much on the flippers but try to flail at the ball.. but when zipped, I've have a great time tossing the ball and sniping the red advances.
Also, I read a comment that there was no skill plunge on this game, but I really feel like there sort of is, as a really soft plunge seems to have a better chance of getting knocked to the top most advance by the spinning bumper.
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It's an interesting point about Pluto. I feel like they might have originally designed it for that, but then someone decided that they should have the Earth's moon in the game for whatever reason, and thus you have to drop pluto! . Who knows. Would be a great piece of pinball trivia. Maybe there was ciruclation at that time to not consider it a planet?
Mass estimates for Pluto
Year Mass Estimate by
1915 7 Earth Lowell (prediction for Planet X)[15]
1931 1 Earth Nicholson & Mayall[36][37][38]
1948 0.1 (1/10) Earth Kuiper[39]
1976 0.01 (1/100) Earth Cruikshank, Pilcher, & Morrison[40]
Quoted from koji:When you advance to certain letters, you can light special, and the open gate. These are only lit when the flippers are in the open position, and unlight when the flippers are closed. expected?
To expand on what astyy said, Bally seemed to have a policy to never totally seal up all drains simultaneously, unlike Williams. You can see evidence in the schematics for Gator and 4 Million BC, to name two examples. When the flippers are closed, some other drain is open.
.................David Marston
Being the anniversary of the final space shuttle launch I played some Rocket III today 
Quoted from koji:Any game set up advice?
Not really, I have a rebound post between the flippers which came with the machine which I think is wrong and it's still hard. One thing, the rotary flipper was specified as a single rubber ring R-141 / 1 1/2" common to see single post rings.
Quoted from koji:One other mechanical question that occurred to me is that I noticed after Neptune there is a advance that is empty, and then you hit is again and it starts at Mercury.. is this expected or is there something else that should go on?
On mine, the selected advance award is received when you move to Neptune, you must then complete ROCKET to advance again from Neptune which immediately lights Mercury to start over.
Quoted from koji:I noticed a video where they had flashing lights in the arch.. thought that looked neat.. forgot to check schematics to see if the blinkers are indicated.
The 1968 parts catalog specifies E-125-44 flasher lamps for both the backglass and apron Shoot Again lamps.
I've done more reading today on the Added Ball Kit and it seems in later games the NC switch to cancel the "Shoot Again" was relocated to the Ball Runway, hence it would be bypassed should the Free Ball Gate be used whilst Shoot Again is active. It's frustrating on Rocket III that you lose your Shoot Again in this scenario.
Not really, I have a rebound post between the flippers which came with the machine which I think is wrong and it's still hard. One thing, the rotary flipper was specified as a single rubber ring R-141 / 1 1/2" common to see single post rings.
Hmm, thank you, I will check what I have.. I knew from the flyer to use a single rubber, but maybe a tighter one will give more action there.
On mine, the selected advance award is received when you move to Neptune, you must then complete ROCKET to advance again from Neptune which immediately lights Mercury to start over.
Thank you, this is very helpful. I can confirm mine will collect the award going into Neptune, but ont he next advance there is a empty step here before going to mercury. That strikes me as really odd unless the game steps twice after neptune and I just have a bad switch somewhere.
The 1968 parts catalog specifies E-125-44 flasher lamps for both the backglass and apron Shoot Again lamps.
I've done more reading today on the Added Ball Kit and it seems in later games the NC switch to cancel the "Shoot Again" was relocated to the Ball Runway, hence it would be bypassed should the Free Ball Gate be used whilst Shoot Again is active. It's frustrating on Rocket III that you lose your Shoot Again in this scenario.
Yeah, I was pretty disappointed in the AAB rules. I really don't like attaching anything after neptune in a tournament or challege environment, it throws too much off, and having it based on score is just like flexing a bit. Both make total sense for location play back in the day of course
Thanks for all the assistance here. It is tough bringing back a non-working game. I've been fortunate in my area to be exposed to hundreds of games to get a sense of how they really can be set up to play.. but this was a new one for me.
Quoted from astyy:Hi koji I own a Rocket III and can comment on some of your points
Correct
Correct, enabling the "Added Ball" disables the Replays and Knocker (see my thread below). It awards a single "Shoot Again" (per the backglass lamp) for the ball in play, which is cancelled anyway if the return gate is open and used! The normally unused switch at the top of the shooter lane arch cancels it.
I've never seen one, I use a ring chart off an Ebay kit.
Do you have the Added Ball kit? It lights the lamp on the apron too which is pretty cool. I started a couple of threads on this machine, which resulted in making the relay and enabling the knocker for "Shoot Again" award;
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-rocket-iii-apron-credit-lamp-wiring
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/adding-knocker-to-bally-aab-added-ball-kit-models
Thanks to astyy and his tremendous amount of help after over 49 years I finally got to see the Shoot Again lights work on my Surfers. I made a home made add a ball relay and it works great. I plan to set it up for AAB for the balloons and leave it replay for high scores.
Thanks again so much. I'm very grateful.
Going to look at a 4 Million BC tomorrow. Any tips or advice aside from the normal to look at specifically on this title? Also what is a fair price for what looks like a better than average condition but not fully working game?
Quoted from Xenon75:Going to look at a 4 Million BC tomorrow. Any tips or advice aside from the normal to look at specifically on this title? Also what is a fair price for what looks like a better than average condition but not fully working game?
Do you have pictures? I have one. I would make sure all the zipper flipper mechs are in-tact for sure because they are going to be hard to find if it doesn’t have them or they are missing a bunch of parts. Outside of that the usual places to look I would say. The theme definitely draws people in. My kids love it.
Quoted from luckycreature:Added glow in the dark bands throughout tonight and a few ultraviolet LEDs on the sides for some night Surfers.
Wonder if you could add a relay to kill the GI on some geature of the game, like the hole kick out.. just momentarily, to see the glowing without any lights
Quoted from koji:Wonder if you could add a relay to kill the GI on some geature of the game, like the hole kick out.. just momentarily, to see the glowing without any lights
That would be cool. But I doubt I'd be able to pull it off.
I do have my surfers listed https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/100398 as i have my eye on something else.
Just acquired my first "holy grail" machine, this gorgeous Four Million BC! Just started going through it earlier tonight and have found some odd things.
Game resets score reels on credit and kicks out ball, game start button does not appear to do anything.
Ball 1 (nor 2-5) light, game is never ending. Each time the ball is drained, a new ball is kicked out and score continues to accumulate.
Flippers do not close, close coil looks like a spent firework. Mechanism can be manually closed and open functions.
Can't wait to get these issues sorted and play a proper game!
20200817_174154 (resized).jpg20200817_174143 (resized).jpgHello
I have a Bally Dogies EM with zipper flippers from 1968 and it responds quite slowly. At the moment the playfield is practically horizontal with a slight slope. Does someone perhaps know in which angle the playingfield will be placed best ? 6.5 degrees seems quite sharp at first sight.
Thanks in advance
Quoted from Rufus1980:Hello
I have a Bally Dogies EM with zipper flippers from 1968 and it responds quite slowly. At the moment the playfield is practically horizontal with a slight slope. Does someone perhaps know in which angle the playingfield will be placed best ? 6.5 degrees seems quite sharp at first sight.
Thanks in advance
I'm running my Rocket III at just over 5'. It feels pretty good, not too slow, but these ones need to have a bit of lateral, or you really don't have any control at all without inlanes etc.
This is all completely subjective.. even to how your particular machine plays, but I'd start with the levelers nearly maxed out on the back and go down from there based on how it plays. IMHO.
Quoted from Rufus1980:Hello
I have a Bally Dogies EM with zipper flippers from 1968 and it responds quite slowly. At the moment the playfield is practically horizontal with a slight slope. Does someone perhaps know in which angle the playingfield will be placed best ? 6.5 degrees seems quite sharp at first sight.
Thanks in advance
Surfers is set about 5° to 5.5°. The front legs are all the way down and the rear legs are almost at the end of their threads.
I have to opportunity to buy a Cosmos in very good shape....can anyone tell me anything to look for when I look at it as this would be my first EM and don't have an idea on any unique factors on this machine. Secondly, if I find out that EMs are not for me, is this an easy machine to re-sell?
Quoted from Bandit78:any unique factors on this machine
The backbox animation is unique. Beyond that, it might be hard to find the small "pill" rollover buttons if any are missing. And if you're a fanatic about correct colors of the mushrooms, check that it has one red and two yellows. (Some colors are hard to find when you set your mind on getting the right color.)
.................David Marston
Quoted from dmarston:The backbox animation is unique. Beyond that, it might be hard to find the small "pill" rollover buttons if any are missing. And if you're a fanatic about correct colors of the mushrooms, check that it has one red and two yellows. (Some colors are hard to find when you set your mind on getting the right color.)
.................David Marston
A few years back I was restoring an Odds and Evens and I bought the last of those small buttons Steve Young had. They are not easy to find and they are a PITA because they tend to stick. Not one of Bally's better ideas.
Quoted from EMsInKC:A few years back I was restoring an Odds and Evens and I bought the last of those small buttons Steve Young had. They are not easy to find and they are a PITA because they tend to stick. Not one of Bally's better ideas.
A possible replacement.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-show-us-your-em-pinball-machines/page/182#post-3777551
Hi zipper people.
I finally got a change to put together my home brew AAB relay.
Thanks to astyy for paving the way here!
I kind of lucked out on a few of these coils that seem to work without modification. 90ohm, but I guess it is close enough.
Not the correct housing, but it works.
I was wondering if there is any demand for these things.. I know there is a shop near me that I can order some of the correct jones plugs from, if I could assemble some kits to make them, would that be worthwhile?
Anyway, pretty cool to finally have this working... thought I'd share yet another DIY build
20201106_203632 (resized).jpg20201106_203643 (resized).jpg20201106_203824 (resized).jpgWell I would be interested. How may Bally games does this mod work on? If someone built these I would buy one or more.
Quoted from fingersport:Well I would be interested. How may Bally games does this mod work on? If someone built these I would buy one or more.
Below is a "prospect" list of AAB convertible games (Edit. see revision in post below), I've helped with a few but not all proven. Note, there are at least 2 wiring versions of the AAB Relay, which I think changed after Rocket III adding an extra Make-Break switch.
There is another thread discussing moving the now redundant replay knocker/sounder to the AAB/Shoot Again functionality, this change would be non-factory - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/adding-knocker-to-bally-aab-added-ball-kit-models
I enjoyed working this kit for my Rocket III, imo it adds to the game play for home environment machines.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-minizag-aab#post-4247871
pasted_image (resized).png
The UK lockdown is a good time to browse through ipdb schematics, these machines appear to support a plug-in Added Ball relay;
Rocket III
Surfers
Dogies
Dixieland
Safari
Rockmakers
Cosmos (no schematic but clear pic of AAB kit plug on motor board)
Mini-Zag
Quoted from fingersport:Well I would be interested. How may Bally games does this mod work on? If someone built these I would buy one or more.
Ahh, sorry I made a mistake.. I thought I had a bunch of these coils I used, but they seem to be different specs. I have a bunch of unmarked ones I can test. This seems to be the more difficult part of the equation, unless some others have a better source for these?
In my case, this 90ohm / 50Volt seems to work fine, and comes with a 4 stack housing which seems to be sufficient.
At first, I built it like the mini-zig not realizing that this one is slightly different than rocket 3, but just a few small adjustments, and it is fine.
Quoted from greenechidna:My new Capersville, probably familiar to a lot of pinsiders. Ive been coveting this for years, beautiful glass and p/f. Cabinet needs a paintjob but otherwise a really clean game. Next to the Wiggler, also a German machine
[quoted image][quoted image]
that used to be mine 
Quoted from Kickout:Picked to RockMakers. Never had a zipper pin so this is new to me. Looks like to will be a fun restore.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
The "lift out mounting board" make them a real pleasure to work on !
https://www.ipdb.org/files/201/Bally_1966_Bazaar_New_Lift_Out_Mounting_Board_Instructions.pdf
Quoted from Kickout:Picked to RockMakers. Never had a zipper pin so this is new to me. Looks like to will be a fun restore
If you make it over to Frederick, Md and want to play some others go to Spinners Arcade we have a bunch of zippers, 4 million BC, Fireball, Capersville, Surfers, Wiggler, Dixieland, Bazaar. Let me know most of them are in the back.
Jeff
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