(Topic ID: 292110)

Bally WPC motor interchangeable?

By TLNubs

3 years ago


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    #1 3 years ago

    Own a Popeye machine. The skill shot wheel died. Scoured the net looking for a motor, prefer new. Found Ministry had one. Ordered and on its way. Every respectable company within the states is sold out or no longer for purchase. Had an epiphany. Bally/Williams was notorious for parts bin manufacturing. Game parts are nearly interchangeable from boards to coils and everything between. Do the motors for Judge Dredd, Indiana Jones, Twilight Zone, etc from the WPC era swap? Marco has many other machine motors in stock ready to ship. Popeye’s motor is stamped 35420-331222.

    Thoughts?

    Searched through pinside for a good 45 mins looking for this topic so I apologize if this has been covered once before.
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    #2 3 years ago

    I looked at the parts list for Popeye to get the Bally Midway part number. The stamped number is the OEMs number, the Bally Midway part is 14-7990. My searches for this part only came up with Popeye references, leading me to believe this is a very unique motor for this game. Other games you mentioned have different part numbers for the motors they require.

    #3 3 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    I looked at the parts list for Popeye to get the Bally Midway part number. The stamped number is the OEMs number, the Bally Midway part is 14-7990. My searches for this part only came up with Popeye references, leading me to believe this is a very unique motor for this game. Other games you mentioned have different part numbers for the motors they require.

    Thank you for taking time looking into this!
    I seen this also with my research. I’ve ordered a motor to look at it and see if there’s a difference. From what I can gather so far is the motor is the same motor and the part number under it identifies it’s gear that is attached to it. The company multi products used this motor across many gear box sets. Where I’m at is waiting for a motor from a vendor in Vegas to ship the 35420 motor with a blank shaft. My hopes are to do some tests on it to identify it’s characteristics and see if it’d match another complete 14-7990 set I happened to find with Pinball Resource.

    Just curious if someone has done this research before I go through the trouble. I feel it’d be great info for everyone. The gear sets are sometimes pricey and unnecessary to replace if the electrical motor is the issue.

    #4 3 years ago

    Ah, I did not realize that this motor imcluded a gear set. At the prices to replace this subassembly, it makes sense to invest in the research. Good luck!

    #5 3 years ago

    At the time, these motors were standard COTS motors use extensively in RC models. I would be surprised if you couldn't find an inexpensive motor (~$5) that would work fine; the hardest part is likely going to be transferring the gearbox coupling gear to the new motor.

    #6 3 years ago

    I wonder if this is similar to 540 or 550 type motors that were commonly used on radio controlled cars in years past. The brushed motors specifically. I posted too late. This does look like those motors. I think I have a gear puller somewhere that would remove the pinion gear. These RC motors had a flat on the shaft and the pinion gears had a setscrew on them. I used 48 pitch gears but there were 32 and 64 pitch also I believe. The gear in the picture looks like maybe 10 or 11 teeth and I think the smallest 48 pitch was 12 or 13 teeth. I still have several of those motors in my pile of RC parts.

    4 weeks later
    #7 3 years ago

    I’m following up on what I’ve found so others may have more resources and access to these motors. The motor (331521) with the bracket attached is what came off the original Popeye gear box. Motor bought from Action Pinball (331411) is an exact match in voltage, amp rating, and speed for the Popeye gearbox assembly. Just minus the original eye shape bracket. That bracket is attached using two small machine screws. Easily transferable. The new updated gearbox assembly from Multi Products no longer uses the eye shape bracket and directly bolts it to the gearbox but you can disassemble it to replace the motor. So basically the average cost for the complete assembly (gearbox and motor) is around $150 plus s&h. Motor with bracket is between $70-$90 plus s&h. Motor alone is $50. I’m sure with some more deep searching, you’d find this motor even cheaper and possibly in better quality (brushless).

    So if one of your Bally/Williams motors dies out, there’s no reason to purchase a complete gearbox assembly if your gearbox is fine like my scenario. I hope this helps others with their quest to keep their machines running.

    Resources used:
    Macrospecialties.com
    Actionpinball.com
    Ministryofpinball.com
    Multiproducts.com
    Pbresource.com

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    #8 3 years ago

    GREAT work discovering all of this. FYI brushless motors won't be a direct replacement as they need additional electronics to run them.

    In any case how long did the original last? 30 years? Not worth modifying stuff if you can find a motor like you have.

    #9 3 years ago
    Quoted from TLNubs:

    I’m following up on what I’ve found so others may have more resources and access to these motors. The motor (331521) with the bracket attached is what came off the original Popeye gear box. Motor bought from Action Pinball (331411) is an exact match in voltage, amp rating, and speed for the Popeye gearbox assembly. Just minus the original eye shape bracket. That bracket is attached using two small machine screws. Easily transferable. The new updated gearbox assembly from Multi Products no longer uses the eye shape bracket and directly bolts it to the gearbox but you can disassemble it to replace the motor. So basically the average cost for the complete assembly (gearbox and motor) is around $150 plus s&h. Motor with bracket is between $70-$90 plus s&h. Motor alone is $50. I’m sure with some more deep searching, you’d find this motor even cheaper and possibly in better quality (brushless).
    So if one of your Bally/Williams motors dies out, there’s no reason to purchase a complete gearbox assembly if your gearbox is fine like my scenario. I hope this helps others with their quest to keep their machines running.
    Resources used:
    Macrospecialties.com
    Actionpinball.com
    Ministryofpinball.com
    Multiproducts.com
    Pbresource.com[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    Thanks for posting your research.

    Bought a couple of these at the Rat Shack on clearance. It was supposed to be a replacement for IJ path of the dead or others?

    Never needed to replace it though so who knows?

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    2 weeks later
    #10 3 years ago
    Quoted from pins4u:

    GREAT work discovering all of this. FYI brushless motors won't be a direct replacement as they need additional electronics to run them.
    In any case how long did the original last? 30 years? Not worth modifying stuff if you can find a motor like you have.

    Exactly. From what I also understand about brushless motors is that you’d have to run a few other parts and basically make a small board to regulate power and speed. My Popeye motor was original to the machine which was manufactured in February of 1994. So like you said, not sure if’s it really worth doing all that extra work to make a brushless work with the game. Good point though.

    #11 3 years ago
    Quoted from emsrph:

    Thanks for posting your research.
    Bought a couple of these at the Rat Shack on clearance. It was supposed to be a replacement for IJ path of the dead or others?
    Never needed to replace it though so who knows?[quoted image]

    The amp rating of that radio shack is at 1.3amps and the original runs at .3amps. May overload the circuit or the circuit won’t have enough power to turn it with a gear box. In theory though. Sometimes you just have to experiment and see what your multi-meter sees. That is what I did to see if Bally was just a parts shelve builder like I assumed. Gear boxes were custom to the particular game but Multi Products kept the motors for all WPC games very close in spec if not exact so the power board wouldn’t have to custom to the WPC era. That was my theory and what I have found, it seems to be true.

    1 year later
    #12 1 year ago
    Quoted from TLNubs:

    I’m following up on what I’ve found so others may have more resources and access to these motors. The motor (331521) with the bracket attached is what came off the original Popeye gear box. Motor bought from Action Pinball (331411) is an exact match in voltage, amp rating, and speed for the Popeye gearbox assembly. Just minus the original eye shape bracket. That bracket is attached using two small machine screws. Easily transferable. The new updated gearbox assembly from Multi Products no longer uses the eye shape bracket and directly bolts it to the gearbox but you can disassemble it to replace the motor. So basically the average cost for the complete assembly (gearbox and motor) is around $150 plus s&h. Motor with bracket is between $70-$90 plus s&h. Motor alone is $50. I’m sure with some more deep searching, you’d find this motor even cheaper and possibly in better quality (brushless).
    So if one of your Bally/Williams motors dies out, there’s no reason to purchase a complete gearbox assembly if your gearbox is fine like my scenario. I hope this helps others with their quest to keep their machines running.
    Resources used:
    Macrospecialties.com
    Actionpinball.com
    Ministryofpinball.com
    Multiproducts.com
    Pbresource.com[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    What is the part number on Action's website? Can't find that motor

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