(Topic ID: 291078)

Bally Wizard - start up issues

By Nikrox2

2 years ago


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  • 19 posts
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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Nikrox2
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#1 2 years ago

Helping a friend bring a game back from his past. Was part of an arcade team back in the 70's and when he left he was able to snag this one. After years of not operating, we got her up and running my last trip over..

Had her working last week, then cleaned her thoroughly. She looked great for her age, was starting up, playing, all good except the score reels wouldn't all return to zero. Time got late the first trip so I had to leave. I needed to come back to rebuild the plunger and thought I'd look at the score reels on a 2nd trip.

Got there this evening, he said they had played it 20-30 games (just weird scores of course, starting at various spots). But fun to see the machine play again. When I got there the playfield was lifted up, back box open, etc. (he removed the plunger assembly for me to save me time, nice guy and he tries...anyhow- I powered her on and now all lights work but the score motor runs continuous. I can still hit the start button (with or without a ball in game), the score reels all now reset to zero across the board, it shows ball one, pops, slings and flippers all work - but it continuously racks points (by the thousands) and the hole kicker activates continuous (not the outhole kicker - it doesn't operate, whether I place a ball in or not. That switch is open until I press on it or a ball is placed), it never goes to the next ball (again whether a place a ball in the outhole or manually press that switch) -but seems like it's continuously starting Ball One, and giving 1,000 points but doesn't go into full start mode??.

Looking at the schematic now that I'm back home (the color version is amazing, so cool for someone like me..lol) I do see a 5,000 point relay that I did not inspect while there, so it could be giving 5,000 points in 1k increments, but continuous..IDK After 2nd thought, the Hole kicker does go off on each 1,000 point increment, so that may be a clue.

But I thoroughly went over every switch on/under the playfield, thinking something is stuck, giving 1,000 pts on, and on, and on, ... nothing is stuck/closed.

What can cause the Hole kicker to activate (not the Outhole kicker), give 1,000 points, and not let the Outhole switch activate to a) go to next ball b) not kick out next ball - and not stop?

Is this a score motor issue? Any tips on this would be helpful (SM's are not my friend) Maybe it's the number of switches in such a small place and no matter what I always seem to make things worse...and then it turns out to not be a SM issue after all...lol

So I'd rather ask for help then make matters worse. Thanks in advance!

#2 2 years ago

Sounds like a Bonus Unit.

#3 2 years ago

Did notice one fan blade bent a good inch off the face of the bonus unit- this was while he was working on the plunger I noticed and gently bent it back into place Thought it was there before like this and just caught another issue while the PF was lifted up. Now I wonder if while lifting (prior to my getting there) something happened and it slipped on him causing the bent fan blade and now other issues.

But I did get it making good contact so not sure if that helps ?

And thanks for the quick response.

#4 2 years ago

Morning bump for you EM fanatics!

#5 2 years ago

For what's it worth and others will have their opinions... With any Bally or Williams, I always make a copy of the schematic and circle all the score motor switches on the schematic. Then I begin to look at them on the score motor with the playfield fully up (against the head) and power off. I carefully and gently clean the switch contacts with some alcohol and strips of thick paper. Alcohol on the paper and then swipe them through. Then again with a dry piece of paper. Then I check to make sure NO (normally open) and NC (normally closed) blades are making proper contact. I cross them off the schematic as I go.

Don't go after relays until you know your score motor blades are clean and making correct contact.

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from Skidave:

For what's it worth and others will have their opinions... With any Bally or Williams, I always make a copy of the schematic and circle all the score motor switches on the schematic. Then I begin to look at them on the score motor with the playfield fully up (against the head) and power off. I carefully and gently clean the switch contacts with some alcohol and strips of thick paper. Alcohol on the paper and then swipe them through. Then again with a dry piece of paper. Then I check to make sure NO (normally open) and NC (normally closed) blades are making proper contact. I cross them off the schematic as I go.
Don't go after relays until you know your score motor blades are clean and making correct contact.

Sounds good, Printed out and will take with me next trip over, it may very well be a SCM switch off here. I'll report back my findings. Thanks!

#7 2 years ago

From your description, it seems like the hole circuit is working properly:

utsnitt_1 (resized).jpgutsnitt_1 (resized).jpg

But if the score motor continues to run because something else is stuck and prevents it from stopping , it will repeat the hole kicker sequence over and over again. This may also explain why it keeps on adding 1000 points, if the ball count unit does not advance and keeps the ball index relay energized. (If I remember correctly, every game starts with a bonus of 1000, added at the start of the reset cycle.)

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Is the ball count unit stepping up and down correctly?

#8 2 years ago

No it is not

#9 2 years ago

And yes your correct on the thousand points at ball 1

#10 2 years ago

Possibly the M/B Ball Index?

#11 2 years ago

Question - checking score motor switches comparing to schematics - in what position should the SM be in ? Some I’ve had in the past have been marked (even finger nail polish) so didn’t know on this one from memory until I get there. I’m hoping to go over later tonight or tomorrow to fix this one (he has family coming in and wants to show it off -can’t blame him!). I’ll take some photos when I get her going.

#12 2 years ago

The score motor should be in position 0:

utsnitt_3 (resized).jpgutsnitt_3 (resized).jpg

#13 2 years ago

Schematics from all the companies draw the motor switches as they are when the motor is in the home position, where it rests when no scoring is happening. I think on that machine the cam closest to the motor (#1) will have notches in it. The follower should be resting in the notch on that first cam - a switch opens (1F, I think) then to stop the motor turning. That's the position it's in when they draw the schematic.

#14 2 years ago

Thanks guys. So if the ball count unit is not stepping - which SCM switch should I look at first? (I’ll check them all - after sitting for so long they may be bent from sitting in a closed position ).

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from sizteves:

The score motor should be in position 0:
[quoted image]

Asking about this diagram - say positions one thru 5 - cam 2. The black dot means closed at these locations , open at the others? Or is this vice versa?

#16 2 years ago

Maybe if I learn more on these score motors I won’t be so afraid to work on them. I just remember my first or second machine I worked on and I caused more work than good. Learning here!

#17 2 years ago

The black dots only indicate where in the sequence the switches on the numbered stacks changes state.

I.e. all "SCM 1" switches will be in the opposite state of what the diagram says in all other positions than 0. More info here: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#motor

1 week later
#19 2 years ago

Got her up and playing. It was the Ball Index relay. Took a while but tracked it down. Thanks for the help!

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