(Topic ID: 217783)

Bally Wizard only works on player one

By Chris914

5 years ago


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    #1 5 years ago

    Hi,

    The machine works just fine on one player. But if you add more players, the machine never advance to the next player, and player one is stuck on ball one over and over again. Any help would be great.

    This is my first post, Thanks!

    #2 5 years ago

    Hi Chris914
    welcome to pinside. I do not have an Bally Wizard - mainly because I once said "Williams and Gottliebs --- Yes, spare parts, hmm - I not yet have bought me an Bally". But "played in my Youth" - Yes, the Wizard is a very good pin.

    See the JPG - I believe "green" is working in Your pin --- "red" is not working. See "grey" - maybe the wiring in reality - in Your pin is "as drawn grey" ?
    Toggle-off, unplug the main power cord (Safety reasons) - locate the "Player-Unit" in Your pin --- manually step one direction - step other direction --- see the step-up is "single steps" - step down is ONE HUGE step. Then step to "about the middle - inbetween" - plug-in, toggle-on, WATCH the Player-Unit - start a game - question: DOES the Player-Unit reset / move ? --- this "resetting at start-up is done "along my blue wiring" - does it work in Your pin ? Greetings Rolf

    0Wizard-Work-05 (resized).jpg0Wizard-Work-05 (resized).jpg

    #3 5 years ago

    Can you manually actuate the "player up stepper unit" and the "ball count stepper unit" , there should be placards to indicate which one is which.

    I think they are both "full reset steppers"

    #4 5 years ago
    Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

    Hi Chris914
    welcome to pinside. I do not have an Bally Wizard - mainly because I once said "Williams and Gottliebs --- Yes, spare parts, hmm - I not yet have bought me an Bally". But "played in my Youth" - Yes, the Wizard is a very good pin.
    See the JPG - I believe "green" is working in Your pin --- "red" is not working. See "grey" - maybe the wiring in reality - in Your pin is "as drawn grey" ?
    Toggle-off, unplug the main power cord (Safety reasons) - locate the "Player-Unit" in Your pin --- manually step one direction - step other direction --- see the step-up is "single steps" - step down is ONE HUGE step. Then step to "about the middle - inbetween" - plug-in, toggle-on, WATCH the Player-Unit - start a game - question: DOES the Player-Unit reset / move ? --- this "resetting at start-up is done "along my blue wiring" - does it work in Your pin ? Greetings Rolf

    First, thank you so much for your reply.

    "this "resetting at start-up is done "along my blue wiring" - does it work in Your pin?"

    Hmm, I didn't notice this before, but the machine doesn't go through a startup sequence when first turned on. When I turn on the machine it's in the same state as when turned off. If it helps I've noticed that the first thing the machine does is to energized the "Lock" soleniod and nothing else.

    But the good news is that the Player-Unit will reset when I start adding players. That is if it was last in "Game Over" mode.

    Chris

    #5 5 years ago

    Hi Chris914
    from Your post-1 I read "can start a ONE-Player-Game by pressing the 'Replay-Button' in the front - near the coin-door". THEN the pin starts - does the resetting of the Score-Drums - the pin does a lot of work - all this work the pin is doing: We call the Start-Up / -Sequence. So
    Toggle-off, unplug the main power cord (Safety reasons) - locate the "Player-Unit" in Your pin --- manually step one direction - step other direction --- see the step-up is "single steps" - step down is ONE HUGE step. Then step to "about the middle - inbetween" - plug-in, toggle-on, WATCH the Player-Unit - start a game - question: DOES the Player-Unit reset / move ?

    In a running Wizard the Player-Unit resets --- and the way the electrons flow to cause the Player-Unit-RESET-Coil to pull: The electrons flow "along my blue wiring". It is getting late in Switzerland - I go to sleep - till tomorrow, greetings Rolf

    #6 5 years ago
    Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

    Hi Chris914
    from Your post-1 I read "can start a ONE-Player-Game by pressing the 'Replay-Button' in the front - near the coin-door". THEN the pin starts - does the resetting of the Score-Drums - the pin does a lot of work - all this work the pin is doing: We call the Start-Up / -Sequence. So
    Toggle-off, unplug the main power cord (Safety reasons) - locate the "Player-Unit" in Your pin --- manually step one direction - step other direction --- see the step-up is "single steps" - step down is ONE HUGE step. Then step to "about the middle - inbetween" - plug-in, toggle-on, WATCH the Player-Unit - start a game - question: DOES the Player-Unit reset / move ?
    In a running Wizard the Player-Unit resets --- and the way the electrons flow to cause the Player-Unit-RESET-Coil to pull: The electrons flow "along my blue wiring". It is getting late in Switzerland - I go to sleep - till tomorrow, greetings Rolf

    Yes, when I step the "Player Unit" to about the middle (Player Two or Three) and start a new game the "Player Unit" will move and reset back to Player One.

    In reference to the "Start-UP Sequence" I guess different machines are different. I have a another pinball (Solar City by Gottlieb) that will go into "Game Over" if you're in the middle of a game and turn it off and then on. My Wizard machine doesn't do that. I wasn't sure if it should.

    #7 5 years ago

    Hi Chris914
    Yes, the Start-Up sequences are different in the pins --- BIG difference "Gottlieb" versus "Bally, Williams". But Your pin has a fault - when we toggle-on the main power switch: Nothing happens - the Lock-Relay does not pull-in --- a switch (encircled red) of type "Normally-Closed" therefore is closed (relay is not pulling) --- through this switch current should flow when the Game-Over-Relay is "latched means not-tripped - means in-play - means not-in-state-Game-Over". The Game-Over-Relay then trips (and by tripping opens encircled "blue switch" - circuitry is cut - Coil on Game-Over-Trip-Side has no more connection).
    We then press the left flipper-button - the Lock-Relay pulls-in and opens its switch (encircled red) - now both sides / halves of the full circuitry on the coil of the GO-Relay have an open switch cutting circuitry.

    Toggle-off, unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - locate the "Switch on Lock-Relay" - check for "closed when the relay is not active" - may clean the contact-points (oxidation ?) - check for "wires soldered-on" --- (((poor us - a connecting wire can be broken-off "here" - or broken-off "there - means other end of the wire"))). Greetings Rolf

    0Wizard-Work-06 (resized).jpg0Wizard-Work-06 (resized).jpg

    #8 5 years ago

    Does the coin unit step up to 2,3 and four players?
    If the ball in play doesn't increase, look at the ball index relay for a misadjusted or dirty contact.
    A way of testing is to tilt the ball in play, if it gets to the second ball it is surely the ball index.
    If the coin unit does not step up it is possible the end contact on the coin unit is bent open.

    #9 5 years ago
    Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

    Hi Chris914
    Yes, the Start-Up sequences are different in the pins --- BIG difference "Gottlieb" versus "Bally, Williams". But Your pin has a fault - when we toggle-on the main power switch: Nothing happens - the Lock-Relay does not pull-in --- a switch (encircled red) of type "Normally-Closed" therefore is closed (relay is not pulling) --- through this switch current should flow when the Game-Over-Relay is "latched means not-tripped - means in-play - means not-in-state-Game-Over". The Game-Over-Relay then trips (and by tripping opens encircled "blue switch" - circuitry is cut - Coil on Game-Over-Trip-Side has no more connection).
    We then press the left flipper-button - the Lock-Relay pulls-in and opens its switch (encircled red) - now both sides / halves of the full circuitry on the coil of the GO-Relay have an open switch cutting circuitry.
    Toggle-off, unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - locate the "Switch on Lock-Relay" - check for "closed when the relay is not active" - may clean the contact-points (oxidation ?) - check for "wires soldered-on" --- (((poor us - a connecting wire can be broken-off "here" - or broken-off "there - means other end of the wire"))). Greetings Rolf

    I cleaned and checked the "Lock-Relay" and it seems to be working.

    I did discover why my Wizard energizes the "Lock-Relay" when the machine is turned on, someone bypassed the switch on the left flipper so the "Lock-Relay" is always energized when the machine is turned on.

    #10 5 years ago
    Quoted from wizardblom:

    Does the coin unit step up to 2,3 and four players?
    If the ball in play doesn't increase, look at the ball index relay for a misadjusted or dirty contact.
    A way of testing is to tilt the ball in play, if it gets to the second ball it is surely the ball index.
    If the coin unit does not step up it is possible the end contact on the coin unit is bent open.

    Hi,

    "Does the coin unit step up to 2,3 and four players?" - Yes

    "If the ball in play doesn't increase, look at the ball index relay for a misadjusted or dirty contact." - The machine plays normally on one player. When the machines is increase to two or more players the machines just stays on one player, ball one, over and over. It never advances to player two or ball two.

    "A way of testing is to tilt the ball in play, if it gets to the second ball it is surely the ball index." - When I do this the machine still won't adavnce to player two or ball two.

    "If the coin unit does not step up it is possible the end contact on the coin unit is bent open." - In one player mode it works.

    Thanks, Chris

    #11 5 years ago

    Hi Chris914
    It does not really matter - later pins like my Williams Space Mission and Big Deal do (no longer) have the feature "toggling-on - nothing happens - then pressing the left flipper-button makes the lights to turn-on". I think it is a funny feature - not more.
    BUT the Space Mission AND the Big Deal STILL do have an LOCK-Relay - because of the function "to make the Game-Over-Relay to trip - if the GO-Relay is not tripped".

    Lets proceed with troubleshooting - (Your post-6) - by now You can see the "Player-Unit-RESET-coil" fire when starting a new game. Sounds strange - but it is a fact - in a ONE-Player-Game when the pin steps from ball-1 to ball-2 etc: The Player-Unit-RESET-Coil fires - O.K. the unit is resetted all the time throughout an ONE-Player-Game - but, when the pin steps from ball-1 to ball-2 etc: The Player-Unit-RESET-Coil fires - we can see this.

    Please lift the playfield after start-up - simulate ball-play - make some points - simulate "ball is lost - enters the Outhole" --- watch, watch, watch - the pin steps-up the Ball-Count-Unit - question: Do You see the Player-Unit-RESET-Coil fire ?
    Frankly - I believe You will say "Player-Unit-RESET-Coil does not fire when stepping from ball-1 to ball-2" - but I must ask as this is part of troubleshooting. Greetings Rolf

    #12 5 years ago
    Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

    Hi Chris914
    It does not really matter - later pins like my Williams Space Mission and Big Deal do (no longer) have the feature "toggling-on - nothing happens - then pressing the left flipper-button makes the lights to turn-on". I think it is a funny feature - not more.
    BUT the Space Mission AND the Big Deal STILL do have an LOCK-Relay - because of the function "to make the Game-Over-Relay to trip - if the GO-Relay is not tripped".
    Lets proceed with troubleshooting - (Your post-6) - by now You can see the "Player-Unit-RESET-coil" fire when starting a new game. Sounds strange - but it is a fact - in a ONE-Player-Game when the pin steps from ball-1 to ball-2 etc: The Player-Unit-RESET-Coil fires - O.K. the unit is resetted all the time throughout an ONE-Player-Game - but, when the pin steps from ball-1 to ball-2 etc: The Player-Unit-RESET-Coil fires - we can see this.
    Please lift the playfield after start-up - simulate ball-play - make some points - simulate "ball is lost - enters the Outhole" --- watch, watch, watch - the pin steps-up the Ball-Count-Unit - question: Do You see the Player-Unit-RESET-Coil fire ?
    Frankly - I believe You will say "Player-Unit-RESET-Coil does not fire when stepping from ball-1 to ball-2" - but I must ask as this is part of troubleshooting. Greetings Rolf

    "I believe You will say "Player-Unit-RESET-Coil does not fire when stepping from ball-1 to ball-2" - but I must ask as this is part of troubleshooting." - No the coil doesn't fire.

    But now for some reason the machine has stopped working in one player mode as well. It will no longer step from ball-1 to ball-2.

    #13 5 years ago

    Hi Chris914
    it is getting late in Switzerland - I must go to sleep. Well, look at the JPG in post-2 - On every new ball given You must make some points so the Ball-Index-Relay pulls-in and stays pulling (does it in Your pin ?) - then (JPG) along "green" a shot is fired - to reach the Ball-Count-Unit: The Coin-Unit MUST be resetted (is it in Your pin ?) --- soon after "green shot" another shot is fired - along "my red wiring" - this "my red" is / was the original problem. When drawing "my blue lines (at starting a new game)": I should have drawn also "blue": UPWARDS to Ball-Count-Unit-Reset-Coil and Coin-Unit-Reset-Coil --- question: Do Player-Unit AND Ball-Count-Unit AND Coin-Unit RESET when You start a new game.
    Till tomorrow, greetings Rolf

    #14 5 years ago
    Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

    Hi Chris914
    it is getting late in Switzerland - I must go to sleep. Well, look at the JPG in post-2 - On every new ball given You must make some points so the Ball-Index-Relay pulls-in and stays pulling (does it in Your pin ?) - then (JPG) along "green" a shot is fired - to reach the Ball-Count-Unit: The Coin-Unit MUST be resetted (is it in Your pin ?) --- soon after "green shot" another shot is fired - along "my red wiring" - this "my red" is / was the original problem. When drawing "my blue lines (at starting a new game)": I should have drawn also "blue": UPWARDS to Ball-Count-Unit-Reset-Coil and Coin-Unit-Reset-Coil --- question: Do Player-Unit AND Ball-Count-Unit AND Coin-Unit RESET when You start a new game.
    Till tomorrow, greetings Rolf

    Good morning,

    "Do Player-Unit AND Ball-Count-Unit AND Coin-Unit RESET when You start a new game." - Yes all three reset. I've also tried putting them in different positions and all three will reset fully to their starting positions.

    Thanks, Chris

    #15 5 years ago
    Quoted from Chris914:

    My Wizard machine doesn't do that. I wasn't sure if it should.

    Well, yes it should go to game over when powered back up after you turn off the power during a game.

    Quoted from Chris914:

    someone bypassed the switch on the left flipper so the "Lock-Relay" is always energized when the machine is turned on.

    This does not really matter, some machines do this anyway.

    The first thing to do is, manually operate all three stepper units many times. That's the ball count unit, Player up unit and Coin unit (all used for multi-player games). there are two coils on each, one to step up the other to reset. most likely one of these units is sticky with old grease, or not so old WD40 <---- Bad news in pinball machines.

    So work them until they move up smoothly and snap back when reset. Bit of luck this is all you will need to do to get them working again. If it was working as a single player games, then work with the Player up and coin units first.

    #16 5 years ago

    Hi Chris914
    fine - the (post-14) three units reset when You start a new game. Please write about - can You at this time "play a ONE-Player-Game" ? (or is the new problem (post-12) "stays in ball-1" persistent ?). I very much like to test with "Test-Lights" - Williams and Gottlieb pins run on 24VAC (we take two 12Volt car bulbs mounted one behind the other - sums up to 24 Volt). Your Bally pin runs on 48 to 50 VAC --- instead of mounting four 12Volt car bulbs (it is not very practical): I would like You to use an old bedroom lamp for 110VAC - an 10,15,20,25,30,35,40 Watts bedroom lamp - the oldtime simple Edison type (NOT costly new energy-saving - NOT LED) --- it will not shine up bright - but bright enough for our tests --- do You have an oldfashioned Edison-Typ bedroom lamp of 10 ... 40 (... 60) Watts ? Do You have an Solder-Iron ? Do You have some spare wire and gator-clips to make You Test-Light / Jumper-Wire ? (((nice when You have gator-clips --- but we can do tests without gator-clips))). Greetings Rolf

    #17 5 years ago
    Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

    Hi Chris914
    fine - the (post-14) three units reset when You start a new game. Please write about - can You at this time "play a ONE-Player-Game" ? (or is the new problem (post-12) "stays in ball-1" persistent ?). I very much like to test with "Test-Lights" - Williams and Gottlieb pins run on 24VAC (we take two 12Volt car bulbs mounted one behind the other - sums up to 24 Volt). Your Bally pin runs on 48 to 50 VAC --- instead of mounting four 12Volt car bulbs (it is not very practical): I would like You to use an old bedroom lamp for 110VAC - an 10,15,20,25,30,35,40 Watts bedroom lamp - the oldtime simple Edison type (NOT costly new energy-saving - NOT LED) --- it will not shine up bright - but bright enough for our tests --- do You have an oldfashioned Edison-Typ bedroom lamp of 10 ... 40 (... 60) Watts ? Do You have an Solder-Iron ? Do You have some spare wire and gator-clips to make You Test-Light / Jumper-Wire ? (((nice when You have gator-clips --- but we can do tests without gator-clips))). Greetings Rolf

    Hi,

    "can You at this time "play a ONE-Player-Game" - Yes

    The problem with the machine is when I add additional players (so there's two, three, or four players), the machine keeps playing "player one" and "ball one" over and over.

    "Do You have an Solder-Iron ? Do You have some spare wire and gator-clips to make You Test-Light / Jumper-Wire ?" - Yes I have those things. I also have a multimeter. I'm an old school car guy that fixes my own cars. That's why I have the 914 in my forum name.

    The voltage from the transformer is 54.5VAC and 6.5VAC.

    Chris

    #18 5 years ago
    Quoted from Chrisbee:

    Well, yes it should go to game over when powered back up after you turn off the power during a game.

    This does not really matter, some machines do this anyway.
    The first thing to do is, manually operate all three stepper units many times. That's the ball count unit, Player up unit and Coin unit (all used for multi-player games). there are two coils on each, one to step up the other to reset. most likely one of these units is sticky with old grease, or not so old WD40 <---- Bad news in pinball machines.
    So work them until they move up smoothly and snap back when reset. Bit of luck this is all you will need to do to get them working again. If it was working as a single player games, then work with the Player up and coin units first.

    "Well, yes it should go to game over when powered back up after you turn off the power during a game." - It does now. I clean and adjusted the "Interlock Relays."

    "The first thing to do is, manually operate all three stepper units many times. That's the ball count unit, Player up unit and Coin unit" - They seem to be working. They all reset if I manually move them forward to different positions and start a new game so the machine goes through the startup sequence.

    I know a lot of people use WD40 as a lubricate but I never do. For most things I use a PTFE or good old 3inOne. Thanks for the warning thou.

    #19 5 years ago
    Quoted from Chris914:

    For most things I use a PTFE or good old 3inOne.

    Just a tip, If you highlight text in a post a "Quote" will appear, park your mouse on the "Quote" and click. See above how I quoted only part of your text.

    #20 5 years ago

    Getting back to the steppers. There are two arms that drive and hold the white gear. I would suggest you clean them and lube. They will work OK when you manually step the units, but not when operated via the coils if they are AT ALL sticky, the speed man it’s all about the speed, speed that the coils operate is sort of real fast.

    You can clean them without taking the stepper units out. Check them out, see if they are at all sluggish when you operate the step up and reset coils manually. The problem you described is very often sticky steppers.

    Also watch the backboard as player one drains, looking for player two lighting up for a moment or player one light going out then on, stuff like that..

    Help (resized).jpgHelp (resized).jpg

    #21 5 years ago

    good tutorial about cleaning steppers here: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps

    also use a synthetic grease as opposed to 3-in-1 for the hub. -NEVER- lubricate the coil sleeves & plungers

    not mentioned in the tutorial is mark where the clock spring is attached to the hub & count the turns as you unwind so when you reinstall it will be the proper tension.

    #22 5 years ago

    Hi Chris914
    there are two ways I like best when testing, trouble-shooting: AA - I use an Jumper-Wire - kind of force connection --- BB - I use an Test-Light, hooked-on permanent --- then play and watch the Test-Light when I play. The Test-Light has looooong wires - the Test-Light I have put on the apron - the long wires run through the open coin-door into the pin to "where I have clipped-on".

    Do You have an old bedroom-lamp ? Of 110VAC - maybe 10, 15, 20 ... 40 (60) Watts. An old one, cheap - Edison-type ? NOT: energy saving type - NOT: LED type

    See the JPG - "my yellow wiring" - Your old Edison Type bedroom lamp used as an Test-Light. Your pin runs on 48VAC - I believe the 110VAC Bedroom-Test-Light will light up - dim, but visible.
    Please toggle-off the pin and unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - Establish "YELLOW S to E1, Start to End-1" permanent --- then plug-in, toggle-on, start a game - play - when You loose a ball and the pin wants to step to next ball: The Test-Light lights up.

    I do not know if the Ball-Count-Unit will step with the Test-Light mounted or if the Test-Light sucks too much current - we will see. The "YELLOW S to E1, E2, E3" is just "trying if testing works".
    It always is hard to get at solderlugs on switches on the Score-Motor - maybe You cannot do test "YELLOW S to E3" - no problem.

    Please toggle-off the pin and unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - Establish "ROSA/PINK S to E1, Start to End-1" permanent --- then plug-in, toggle-on, start a game - play - when You loose a ball and the pin wants to step to next ball: The Test-Light lights up. You will see - in the "ROSA/PINK S to E1" test: The 110VAC Bedroom-Test-Light will light-up much longer.

    Then toggle-off , unplug - clip-on for "ROSA/PINK S to E2 or E3 or E4 or E5", plug-in, toggle on etc.

    The idea in "Using an Test-Light" is: "Kind of following the wiring in question", greetings Rolf

    0Wizard-Work-07 (resized).jpg0Wizard-Work-07 (resized).jpg
    #23 5 years ago
    Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

    Hi Chris914
    there are two ways I like best when testing, trouble-shooting: AA - I use an Jumper-Wire - kind of force connection --- BB - I use an Test-Light, hooked-on permanent --- then play and watch the Test-Light when I play. The Test-Light has looooong wires - the Test-Light I have put on the apron - the long wires run through the open coin-door into the pin to "where I have clipped-on".
    Do You have an old bedroom-lamp ? Of 110VAC - maybe 10, 15, 20 ... 40 (60) Watts. An old one, cheap - Edison-type ? NOT: energy saving type - NOT: LED type
    See the JPG - "my yellow wiring" - Your old Edison Type bedroom lamp used as an Test-Light. Your pin runs on 48VAC - I believe the 110VAC Bedroom-Test-Light will light up - dim, but visible.
    Please toggle-off the pin and unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - Establish "YELLOW S to E1, Start to End-1" permanent --- then plug-in, toggle-on, start a game - play - when You loose a ball and the pin wants to step to next ball: The Test-Light lights up.
    I do not know if the Ball-Count-Unit will step with the Test-Light mounted or if the Test-Light sucks too much current - we will see. The "YELLOW S to E1, E2, E3" is just "trying if testing works".
    It always is hard to get at solderlugs on switches on the Score-Motor - maybe You cannot do test "YELLOW S to E3" - no problem.
    Please toggle-off the pin and unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - Establish "ROSA/PINK S to E1, Start to End-1" permanent --- then plug-in, toggle-on, start a game - play - when You loose a ball and the pin wants to step to next ball: The Test-Light lights up. You will see - in the "ROSA/PINK S to E1" test: The 110VAC Bedroom-Test-Light will light-up much longer.
    Then toggle-off , unplug - clip-on for "ROSA/PINK S to E2 or E3 or E4 or E5", plug-in, toggle on etc.
    The idea in "Using an Test-Light" is: "Kind of following the wiring in question", greetings Rolf

    Hi again,

    Sorry, I've been gone due to work.

    I made the light bulb lamp test setup with clips on the ends. I've started testing the points in your drawing. Question, how do I find "3A SCW" and "4B SCW" in the pinball machine?

    Also what do the numbers in the rectangle boxes mean?

    Thanks

    #24 5 years ago
    Quoted from Chrisbee:

    Just a tip, If you highlight text in a post a "Quote" will appear, park your mouse on the "Quote" and click. See above how I quoted only part of your text.

    Thanks.

    Quoted from chas10e:

    good tutorial about cleaning steppers here: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps
    also use a synthetic grease as opposed to 3-in-1 for the hub. -NEVER- lubricate the coil sleeves &amp; plungers
    not mentioned in the tutorial is mark where the clock spring is attached to the hub &amp; count the turns as you unwind so when you reinstall it will be the proper tension.

    Thanks for the lubrication tips.

    #25 5 years ago
    Quoted from Chris914:

    "3A SCW" and "4B SCW"

    3A - Third cam from the motor end and SW closest to the cam

    4B - Fourth Cam from motor and 2nd Sw above cam.

    Quoted from Chris914:

    Also what do the numbers in the rectangle boxes mean?

    Wire colours. 1st number the main colour, the 2nd Number the trace colour, the 3rd number after the - run number EG -3 is the third run of this colour wire.

    this info is on the schematic

    You may not know about this, there is a colour version of the Wizard schematic on IPDB, Hi Res too.

    http://www.ipdb.org/files/2803/Bally_1975_Wizard_Schematic.png

    Help (resized).jpgHelp (resized).jpg
    #26 5 years ago
    Quoted from Chris914:

    The machine works just fine on one player.

    Your quote here said, all is good for a one player game.

    Quoted from Chris914:

    But if you add more players, the machine never advance to the next player, and player one is stuck on ball one over and over again.

    Assuming that when you add more players the back glass indicates that more than one player can play?

    When you play the 1st player and 1st ball all is still well until the ball drains. the ball is ejected out to the shooter lane ready to play again but still 1st player.

    Hope this is how I'm meant to read the first post.

    What this tells me is the player up unit is not stepping up.

    Order of events multi player.

    VERY important – the schematic is drawn as a one player game. 1st ball in the shooter lane and the power turned off. So when you look for an issue with the multi-player parts, the schematic is not quite right. (Just a side note, the extra ball SW on the colour version of the schematic is drawn wrong should be NC - normally closed not NO - normally open,Fixed on the snippet below)

    Start a single player game -Reset ball count unit, player up unit and coin unit.

    Add another player – step up the coin unit (better name would be – Number of players unit)

    Player one plays ball one until it drains.
    1st player drains 1st ball.
    1st, did player one score any points? If no, Player gets to play again, if yes then - Next, did player one get a free ball? If yes send ball to shooter lane, Player one plays again.
    If no, then step up player unit and Player 2 plays 1st ball.

    2nd player drains 1st ball.
    Did player two score any points? If no, Player two gets to play again, if yes - Next, did player two get a free ball? If yes send ball to shooter lane, Player two plays again.
    If no, then have we reached the last player, if No step up the player unit.
    If yes, then reset the player unit (Back to player one) and step up the ball count unit.

    In my bit of schematic, follow the GREEN line. Can you see that to fire the ball step up coil, a few things need to be set right.
    The outhole RE energised, the Ball index RE energised. The extra ball RE de – energised and player –up unit on position two. Then and only then can the ball count unit advance.

    Now you should have enough info to help you fault find.

    So start a two player game, make sure its on player one, ball one. Start the play making sure at least 10 points are scored and let the ball drain. Does the player up unit step up coil fire? if yes, did it make it to player two?
    If it did fire but did not make it two player two. The unit will be sticky, Have I mentioned sticky stepper units yet?????

    Help (resized).pngHelp (resized).png
    #27 5 years ago

    A bit more.....
    From the OP (originating Post), the game plays a one player game just fine. This leaves us with really three things the coin unit, the player up unit or the Jones plug between them.

    PS, just had a two player game on my Monty Carlow, to play two players, I have to exercise the Coin unit first, it was firing but not stepping up. "A Bit Sticky"

    1 week later
    #28 5 years ago
    Quoted from Chrisbee:

    Your quote here said, all is good for a one player game.

    Assuming that when you add more players the back glass indicates that more than one player can play?
    When you play the 1st player and 1st ball all is still well until the ball drains. the ball is ejected out to the shooter lane ready to play again but still 1st player.
    Hope this is how I'm meant to read the first post.
    What this tells me is the player up unit is not stepping up.
    Order of events multi player.
    VERY important – the schematic is drawn as a one player game. 1st ball in the shooter lane and the power turned off. So when you look for an issue with the multi-player parts, the schematic is not quite right. (Just a side note, the extra ball SW on the colour version of the schematic is drawn wrong should be NC - normally closed not NO - normally open,Fixed on the snippet below)
    Start a single player game -Reset ball count unit, player up unit and coin unit.
    Add another player – step up the coin unit (better name would be – Number of players unit)
    Player one plays ball one until it drains.
    1st player drains 1st ball.
    1st, did player one score any points? If no, Player gets to play again, if yes then - Next, did player one get a free ball? If yes send ball to shooter lane, Player one plays again.
    If no, then step up player unit and Player 2 plays 1st ball.
    2nd player drains 1st ball.
    Did player two score any points? If no, Player two gets to play again, if yes - Next, did player two get a free ball? If yes send ball to shooter lane, Player two plays again.
    If no, then have we reached the last player, if No step up the player unit.
    If yes, then reset the player unit (Back to player one) and step up the ball count unit.
    In my bit of schematic, follow the GREEN line. Can you see that to fire the ball step up coil, a few things need to be set right.
    The outhole RE energised, the Ball index RE energised. The extra ball RE de – energised and player –up unit on position two. Then and only then can the ball count unit advance.
    Now you should have enough info to help you fault find.
    So start a two player game, make sure its on player one, ball one. Start the play making sure at least 10 points are scored and let the ball drain. Does the player up unit step up coil fire? if yes, did it make it to player two?
    If it did fire but did not make it two player two. The unit will be sticky, Have I mentioned sticky stepper units yet?????

    SUCCESS!

    It was the 4B switch.

    I want to really thank everyone here for helping me. I would like to give a special thanks to Chrisbee!

    I have a few other little things to fix. So I'm sure I may have some questions in the future.

    My family is really enjoying playing it. They thank you as well!

    #29 5 years ago

    Fantastic!!!! Wasn't expecting the issue to be with Score motor SW, but there you go.

    Once you have solved a problem, we should mark it as solved. To do that there is a tickbox above the 1st post in the thread header to the right of the Title.

    4 months later
    #30 5 years ago

    +2 on score motor switch.....Flip Flop. Thank you to all who contributed to the post.

    Reply

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