(Topic ID: 310352)

Bally Wizard! Bonus unit clock spring and countdown problem

By Sea_Wolf

2 years ago


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  • 14 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Sea_Wolf
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#1 2 years ago

I’m working on my Wizard bonus stepper unit which has been having problems with a proper countdown.

I’m putting in a new clock spring and was wondering the correct amount of turns to put on it. Also, the original issue I’ve been having is it always adds an extra thousand at the end of the countdown and it’s been inconsistent during countdown. Sometimes skipping too fast and other times hanging up a little but mostly skipping so I’m guessing I’ve got something too tight like the clock spring.

I’m going to be working on it today and will check to see if the zero switch is opening when it should. I’m posting a video of what it looks like on countdown from the top of the playfield. I can also post a video of the unit itself during countdown later if that helps. Thanks for any help. Danny

#2 2 years ago

I always count the number of turns on old spring when taking it off. 2-1/2 or 3 is typical. Sometimes 4 turns. Check to see if resets properly. If not add more. Too much and will have trouble advancing.

#3 2 years ago

a video of the ratchet side would be good if setting the spring tension and making sure the pawls / arms are moving freely doesn't fix it.

especially check the pawl next to the reset coil ... half of its job is to make sure the ratchet moves one tooth per activation of the reset solenoid coil.

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from Kent_Diego:

I always count the number of turns on old spring when taking it off. 2-1/2 or 3 is typical. Sometimes 4 turns. Check to see if resets properly. If not add more. Too much and will have trouble advancing.

Thanks, Yeah I messed up by not counting the turns when I removed the old one but it advances fine. It sometimes hangs then skips when counting down and always adds an extra thousand.

It almost seems like the countdown coil plunger is getting hung up a little. Getting ready to check some things now.

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

a video of the ratchet side would be good if setting the spring tension and making sure the pawls / arms are moving freely doesn't fix it.
especially check the pawl next to the reset coil ... half of its job is to make sure the ratchet moves one tooth per activation of the reset solenoid coil.

Thanks, I’ll check that out and let you know what I find. I’ll post a video too.

#6 2 years ago

Here’s a video of the unit in countdown from 19,000. The pawl seems to be riding a little high on countdown? I’ll post another with it counting up, which hasn’t been too much of an issue.

#7 2 years ago

Also for reference the first time I did a video of the countdown from 19,000 with the playfield up, the unit stopped stepping down at all halfway through.

#8 2 years ago

it looks like the pin the reset pawl is pivoting on is loose and wiggling around ... is it?

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

it looks like the pin the reset pawl is pivoting on is loose and wiggling around ... is it?

I think it is a little bit. This machine was pretty beat up and you can see where the bonus unit frame is scarred up and that pin is bent at the bottom.

My newest problem is that it now will just stop in the middle of a countdown and not sure why. The zero switch is clean and making good contact when closed and I checked and cleaned the switches on the Bonus Zero relay but it’s not helped.

Not sure what I could have done. All I did was prop the playfield up. After I took that video, it won’t finish counting down by itself. No electrical impulse once it stops in the middle of counting down.

#10 2 years ago

if the pin is bent or flopping around, the pawl may not engage the teeth reliably.

is the pin bolted to the base plate or is it the pressed in kind? If pressed in, time to scrounge a replacement plate.

when the countdown stops, does the ball eject (bonus score relay loses power), or is the bonus score relay still powered but the score motor isn't running?

if the bonus score relay is powered and the score motor is running, check the switch on the bonus score relay with wire 31-1 on it and the plug connection to the playfield for wire 31-1.

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

if the pin is bent or flopping around, the pawl may not engage the teeth reliably.
is the pin bolted to the base plate or is it the pressed in kind? If pressed in, time to scrounge a replacement plate.
when the countdown stops, does the ball eject (bonus score relay loses power), or is the bonus score relay still powered but the score motor isn't running?
if the bonus score relay is powered and the score motor is running, check the switch on the bonus score relay with wire 31-1 on it and the plug connection to the playfield for wire 31-1.

I think you nailed it. The pin is pressed in. That explains a lot. As far as the other issues, it’s fully counting down now instead of stopping halfway through. I had the zero switch not making enough contact.

The ball does eject after countdown and the
Bonus score relay stops. I think the sloppiness issue was exactly related to what you pointed out. It does actually countdown the total correctly now except for it still giving an extra thousand on every ball and I think that is somewhat due to the sloppiness in the pawl-gear. If I try to adjust the zero switch so it opens a hair earlier then it puts too much tension to where the gear stop can’t open it up.

I guess I’ll have to live with it for now. Thanks @baldtwit, it’s a little better now and I know now what I need to get.

#12 2 years ago

if the peg on the ratchet/gear can't push the zero switch(s) easily, try adding a 1/4 turn to the torsion spring until it does. Then verify the unit will step up all the way without struggling at the top step.

you pretty much want the long blade the peg is hitting to be barely touching the peg when the unit is stepped up once. That'll give maximum blade travel when the unit is reset. Then adjust the short blade for correct switch action at step 1 and reset.

the unit base plate was used on a lot games ... including EM slot machines of that era. If you have trouble finding one, pm me and I'll see if I have one laying around. If I don't, the pacific pinball museum should have plenty of them and I can dig around in their warehouse.

the plate is easy, finding one with the correct reset pawl is harder as step-down units were less common. If the pieces on your plate are good, then you can swap those on.

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

if the peg on the ratchet/gear can't push the zero switch(s) easily, try adding a 1/4 turn to the torsion spring until it does. Then verify the unit will step up all the way without struggling at the top step.
you pretty much want the long blade the peg is hitting to be barely touching the peg when the unit is stepped up once. That'll give maximum blade travel when the unit is reset. Then adjust the short blade for correct switch action at step 1 and reset.
the unit base plate was used on a lot games ... including EM slot machines of that era. If you have trouble finding one, pm me and I'll see if I have one laying around. If I don't, the pacific pinball museum should have plenty of them and I can dig around in their warehouse.
the plate is easy, finding one with the correct reset pawl is harder as step-down units were less common. If the pieces on your plate are good, then you can swap those on.

Thanks a bunch. That’s an incredible bunch of knowledge to decipher and I’m looking forward to getting after this tomorrow.

Really appreciate your help.

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

if the peg on the ratchet/gear can't push the zero switch(s) easily, try adding a 1/4 turn to the torsion spring until it does. Then verify the unit will step up all the way without struggling at the top step.
you pretty much want the long blade the peg is hitting to be barely touching the peg when the unit is stepped up once. That'll give maximum blade travel when the unit is reset. Then adjust the short blade for correct switch action at step 1 and reset.
the unit base plate was used on a lot games ... including EM slot machines of that era. If you have trouble finding one, pm me and I'll see if I have one laying around. If I don't, the pacific pinball museum should have plenty of them and I can dig around in their warehouse.
the plate is easy, finding one with the correct reset pawl is harder as step-down units were less common. If the pieces on your plate are good, then you can swap those on.

Great advice on the quarter turn tightening of the spring. It took a little back and forth adjusting on the zero switch but the unit is now counting down properly.

Still some slop because of that pin being loose so I’ll keep an eye on it and let you know if I need to look for a plate. Thanks again @baldtwit.

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