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(Topic ID: 269055)

Bally Vector solenoid problem Q4


By Gary_L_Vector

5 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 12 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by dothedoo
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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There have been 7 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

DefectiveSolenoidBoardUnderside (resized).JPG
DefectiveSolenoidBoardTopside (resized).JPG
Vector_coils (resized).jpg
WiringDiagramPlayfield (resized).JPG
SolenoidLEDDiagnostics (resized).JPG
WiringDiagramBackBox (resized).JPG
SolenoidDriverBoard (resized).JPG

#1 5 months ago

I have been trying to get my Bally Vector back up and running after 25 years of being mothballed (kept in good dry conditions).
I am having some problems getting the machine up and running and would appreciate some help or advice.
I have full diagnostic manuals and spare boards and a fairly decent grounding in electronics.
My problem I think is a solenoid attached to Q4. I purchased both the Alltek Systems "Ultimate Solenoid Driver Board" and also the "Ultimate MPU board".
I suspected the coil that throws the ball into the play shute. The existing coil was showing 0.2 Ohms - ie shorting. I think it should be about 65 Ohms.
So I have replaced that coil .
Coupled with this the A2 Power transformer board had a blown regulator on the 43V DC line (I have replaced that board).
When I powered the machine up today and sent it through the diagnostics cycle the Q4 led on the Alltek board lit up red and stayed on.
I have been pouring through the schematics, I think Q4 goes to J1 Pin 5 which says "Outhole or 3 TopD.T (left)" - I then traced this through on the Playfield schema and it look like this then links to "solenoid expander relay" - could I be looking at a defective relay.
The game is dead - when I press the button on the front panel to start a game nothing happens.
Any advice appreciated before I start working through the wiring loom with a multimeter. If anyone has has similar issues and can re-focus me I appreciate some advice.
I am getting 43 VDC across both sides of the coil I have replaced.
I have attached images from the parts of the schema and a visual of the diagnostic LED on the Alltek board.
Regards Gary

SolenoidDriverBoard (resized).JPGWiringDiagramBackBox (resized).JPGWiringDiagramPlayfield (resized).JPGSolenoidLEDDiagnostics (resized).JPG
#2 5 months ago

When you tested the coil, did lift one leg of the diode?

I can’t read the schematics on the phone, so not much further help.

Did you lift the solenoid signal connector from the SDB to verify the problem is in the playfield and not on the SDB? Someone else will have to chime in with the plug number.

#3 5 months ago

As long as the game comes up into attract mode, the status of the coils will not prevent the game from starting. Make sure 3 balls are in the game down by the outhole before starting. If it still won’t start, put the game in switch test, remove the balls and verify the three outhole switches register in test.

Also check all 10 coils in the last schematic picture you posted and verify each of them have two diodes. It was common for operators to replace these with standard one-diode coils when they fried. That causes all kinds of problems with solenoids and can damage the solenoid driver board.

#4 5 months ago

Like dothedoo says, check all your coils for having two diodes.
On my website you can find a Tech Chart for Vector.
It tells you the correct coil to use.
http://www.pinballrebel.com/pinball/cards/Tech_Charts/Bally_Vector_Tech_Chart.pdf

Vector_coils (resized).jpg
#5 4 months ago

Thanks to the 3 of you for replying - all useful stuff and am back off into my outbuilding with a multimeter!!!

3 weeks later
#6 4 months ago

Any help appreciated - I am trying to track down a short. Any tips from anyone who may have similar experience. I have dropped the wiring loom on the underside of the playfield and unclipped all the cable ties and everthing looks good to me.
I have looked at the old board and I can see it's had some remedial work done on it before I got it. All around the area where I am having a short problem with.
There is a heavier duty diode that's been replaced ther and a resistor blown out.
Looking at the schema it's feeding into a solenoid expander card situated on the underside of the playfield. This feed either the 3 Drop Target (left) or the Outhole kicker.
I have replaced the Outhole solenoid and the solenoid expander board.
Next thing I guess is to swap the 3 Drop Target (Left) with one of the other solenoids and see if the problem moves.
This is driving me a bit crazy. Has anyone ever encountered a diode that shorts only at voltages of 43V and looks ok when it's being avo'd out ?
I have just ordered a batch of diodes to start swapping them out.
Regards
Gary

#7 4 months ago

Please post a close up pic of the reworked area

#8 4 months ago

Pictures supplied both the topside and underside of the board. I managed to get hold of the chap from AllTek in Charlottesville last night (my time).

I must say very impressed with the service and helpfulness.

The short isn't on the board as his board is flagging the same issues - AllTek boards have built in protection circuitry to shut down a short condition.

He said I have to be pulling something of the order of 20 to 30 amps to flag the condition which is a lot.

His advice is to disconnect/desolder both coils one at a time and refire the diagnostics on each coil disconnection. After that suspect a punched through diode across the coils and replace them.

So far the main wiring loom looks intact.
Regards
Gary

DefectiveSolenoidBoardTopside (resized).JPGDefectiveSolenoidBoardUnderside (resized).JPG
#9 4 months ago

Gary -

You're missing a capacitor on the expander board. Do as Altek recommended, lift the wire going to the solenoid in question, and see if the problem is isolated to that solenoid.

Have you lifted (removed) one side of the diode before testing the diode and the coil for the solenoids as recommended earlier?

#10 4 months ago

Thanks Billc479 - took your advice - machine is now functioning have replaced the diode which was shorting the coil. The coil is the Outhole one.
The coil that was in there looks like it's not the right one.
I don't think it's strong enough because the ball isn't getting thrown into play it climbs most of the ramp and then falls back. The coil is a A0-30-3000
From the chart in this post I think it should be AT-27-1300.

Thanks again Billc479 - been great help
Regards
Gary

#11 4 months ago

Gary
You’re welcome. Don’t forget to get that capacitor installed. Cheers

#12 4 months ago
Quoted from Gary_L_Vector:

The coil is a A0-30-3000

Definitely the wrong coil. That one is super weak.

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