Bally Vector restoration Help!

Hi all, I’m a fairly green pinballer, and recently I bought my first pinball machine Bally’s Vector. I’ve been working on bulletproofing my non working Vector. I have all proper voltages on my rectifier board’s test points. BUT I have a weird 178mv DC on my sol. driver board at TP 1 and 3. My other TPs on the solenoid board are fine. I’ve replaced the high voltage components (high voltage repair kit) AND the 5v side has had everything replaced except the two large disc capacitors which my parts supplier forgot to ship in the 5v repair kit. Wondering if anyone knows where I should start looking in order to get my 5v DC? Thanks gang

#2 5 years ago

JMH

Jordan_H

Inactive member

image (resized).jpg

#3 5 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

14y 234K 17,615 104

Did you repin the wired connector and the male board connector at the top right of the solenoid driver board? Did you repin/replace any rectifier connectors yet?

Basically, part of bulletproofing the game would be to replace all male and female connectors.

#4 5 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

That 5V regulator looks like one of those junk fake units from China.
See these two posts:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/meteor-resets-with-rottendog-solenoid-driver-board#post-4688080
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/meteor-resets-with-rottendog-solenoid-driver-board#post-4709895

Are you measuring 12V to 14V DC at TP5 on the solenoid driver board?

#5 5 years ago

JMH

Jordan_H

Inactive member

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
Did you repin the wired connector and the male board connector at the top right of the solenoid driver board? Did you repin/replace any rectifier connectors yet?
Basically, part of bulletproofing the game would be to replace all male and female connectors.

I didn’t , but I flowed new solder, and they are the newer square pins and look to be in good shape

#6 5 years ago

JMH

Jordan_H

Inactive member

Quoted from Quench:
That 5V regulator looks like one of those junk fake units from China.
See these two posts:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/meteor-resets-with-rottendog-solenoid-driver-board#post-4688080
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/meteor-resets-with-rottendog-solenoid-driver-board#post-4709895
Are you measuring 12V to 14V DC at TP5 on the solenoid driver board?

I’m a little high at 17V DC at TP5

#7 5 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from Jordan_H:
I’m a little high at 17V DC at TP5

With no load being drawn through the 5V regulator, 17V is not unusual at TP5 (it's high because the big capacitor at C23 is holding charge at the peak of the supply rail).

What voltage are you measuring on the casing of the 5V regulator (the component in the middle of the big heatsink)? Make sure the screw holding the bottom of the regulator is making good contact with the trace on the back of the board. Check Resistors R49 and R50. If they're in spec and making good contact in circuit, then that 5V regulator is faulty.

#8 5 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lets-get-technical-ballystern-led-display-power-consumption#post-2983421

A couple of internal pictures of fake 5V regulators vs real regulators - notice the internal silicon die is larger on the real regulators and has more whisker connections.

This one looks like yours:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/6821-pias-from-china#post-4279650

This one although purchased from China looks more realistic
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lets-get-technical-ballystern-led-display-power-consumption/page/3#post-3278633

A real LM323 5V regulator is rated to 3 amps. The fake ones are probably rated closer to 1 amp so they quickly fail in these systems from over-current.

#9 5 years ago

JMH

Jordan_H

Inactive member

Quoted from Quench:
With no load being drawn through the 5V regulator, 17V is not unusual at TP5 (it's high because the big capacitor at C23 is holding charge at the peak of the supply rail).
What voltage are you measuring on the casing of the 5V regulator (the component in the middle of the big
heatsink)? Make sure the screw holding the bottom of the regulator is making good contact with the trace on the back of the board. Check Resistors R49 and R50. If they're in spec and making good contact in circuit, then that 5V regulator is faulty.

Thanks for the help guys, how do I measure the 5V at the regulator casing exactly? Where do I put my DMM leads?

#10 5 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from Jordan_H:
how do I measure the 5V at the regulator casing exactly? Where do I put my DMM leads?

A functioning regulator in this circuit will have about 0.2V on the casing. The reason I asked for this measurement was more to check that you have good connectivity of the case to the circuit. 5V output of this regulator is actually one of its two rear pins, not the case.

So black multi-meter lead goes to ground (use the "GND" test point on the solenoid driver board), red meter lead you simply touch the regulators metal case.

#11 5 years ago

JMH

Jordan_H

Inactive member

Quoted from Quench:
A couple of internal pictures of fake 5V regulators vs real regulators - notice the internal silicon die is larger on the real regulators and has more whisker connections.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lets-get-technical-ballystern-led-display-power-consumption#post-2983421
This one looks like yours:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/6821-pias-from-china#post-4279650
This one although purchased from China looks more realistic
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lets-get-technical-ballystern-led-display-power-consumption/page/3#post-3278633
A real LM323 5V regulator is rated to 3 amps. The fake ones are probably rated closer to 1 amp so they quickly fail in these systems from over-current.

Do you have a good parts source? I used a reputable source but if it’s fake I’ll need a new one

#12 5 years ago

JMH

Jordan_H

Inactive member

I’m actually getting 86mV DC on the casing of the regulator and 135mV DC at TPs 1/3 that I have jumpered together per online suggestion

#13 5 years ago

???

jj44114

Pinside member

8y 56,050 1,861 19

Looks like a Chinese dud. Most of the lm323’s from China don’t work. I always test them before soldering them in. Ground on the case and 12v on the input pin. If you don’t get 5v don’t install

#14 5 years ago

JMH

Jordan_H

Inactive member

That was it! Was able to put my old 5V regulator back in and sure enough I got 5V! Thanks so much guys, now onto the next battle

#15 5 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from Jordan_H:
That was it! Was able to put my old 5V regulator back in and sure enough I got 5V!

Great!

OP
Quoted from Jordan_H:
I used a reputable source but if it’s fake I’ll need a new one

You might want to let this reputable source know what they're selling.

#16 5 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

14y 234K 17,615 104

Quench looks like Pinside could use a "don't buy this fake part from xxx" thread.

#17 5 years ago

JMH

Jordan_H

Inactive member

Alright guys some great progress today. When I got the machine I had a locked LED on the MPU board. After removing the battery and replacing with a lithium coin plus diode and doing a full corrosion clean/repair and replacing a 6810 chip I finally got the start up!! BUT other than a nice light show and a couple kick outs working I have no power to flippers, pop bumper or any sling shots. It does kick a ball out hitting the start button and it somewhat goes into a game, no sound (haven’t done much to ST board, and no flippers) where do I start? Thanks for any advice, I’m pretty green but progressing!

image (resized).jpg

#18 5 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from Jordan_H:
where do I start?

Could be the J4 connector that plugs onto the MPU board. Sound and solenoids share "selection" signals.

Put the game in solenoid test mode, (press the little red switch inside the coin door 3 times).
Printed page 17 (electronic PDF page 22) has a solenoid identification table. While it runs through solenoid test mode the number on the player displays corresponds to the ID of the solenoid being activated.
If any of the solenoids are activating at the wrong number and/or not at all, please give us the full list so we can map out where the problem may be.

When solenoid #22 activates, you should hear the relay on the solenoid driver board click.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
@quench looks like Pinside could use a "don't buy this fake part from xxx" thread.

Good idea. When I get a few moments will do it.

#19 5 years ago

JMH

Jordan_H

Inactive member

Quoted from Quench:
Put the game in solenoid test mode, (press the little red switch inside the coin door 3 times).

So I found the little red button. It doesn’t do anything. Tried 3x tried holding it down

#20 5 years ago

HBO

Luzur

Pinside member

8y 53,700 1,276 5

Resoldering all the contacts on the boards is what i would start doing.

#21 5 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from Jordan_H:
So I found the little red button. It doesn’t do anything. Tried 3x tried holding it down

What's the state of the MPU board in this? Any battery corrosion? Can you post some clear high resolution pics of it?

#22 5 years ago

???

wdennie

Inactive member

Canandaigua, NY

8y 37,350 1,321 17

I'd start by re-pinning all your connecters.

#23 5 years ago

JMH

Jordan_H

Inactive member

Not exactly high resolution. But I sanded down/cleaned/descaled and got it back up and running

1BE09576-6B57-414C-956B-5C7601E449F6 (resized).jpeg

26B2C9BF-C99B-429A-9EA2-96F1F39E7231 (resized).jpeg

380A65AE-962D-4331-A5E1-ACA50D896D52 (resized).jpeg

DEFEBD83-BEFF-4803-9C03-5AE03913C152 (resized).jpeg

#24 5 years ago

JMH

Jordan_H

Inactive member

who is your best parts supplier for pins and connectors? I’m sure it’ll be at least $100 in new pins and connectors

#25 5 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

Your connectors probably have corrosion in them. If you have a small Brass wire brush, disconnect J3 and J4 off the MPU board and clean those J3 and J4 pin headers with the wire brush. See if it makes any difference to your issues.

.

OP
Quoted from Jordan_H:
who is your best parts supplier for pins and connectors?

Great Plains is probably your best bet. Your game has "IDC" style connectors, you'll need to replace them (including the housings) with the 0.1" ones linked below. Connectors are cheap but you'll need a crimper which will set you back between $20 - $30. I'll let others chime in on good crimper options.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/categories.asp?cat=70

Don't forget to get the plastic keys to insert in the new connector housings where necessary so the connectors can't be incorrectly installed.

#26 5 years ago

JMH

Jordan_H

Inactive member

Thank you so much Quench, so can I use the .1” Molex for everything?

#27 5 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from Jordan_H:
so can I use the .1” Molex for everything?

MPU board is all 0.1" connectors.
Lamp Driver Board is all 0.1"
Solenoid Driver board uses 0.1" and 0.156"
Auxilliary Lamp Driver Board uses 0.156"
Displays use 0.156"
Sound board uses 0.156"

You'll notice the difference in size between 0.100" and 0.156" when you look at them. The size refers to the spacing between the pins.

#28 5 years ago

JMH

Jordan_H

Inactive member

Thank you! Just ordered a bunch of pins and connectors, gonna get to work

#29 5 years ago

JMH

Jordan_H

Inactive member

Quoted from Quench:
Could be the J4 connector that plugs onto the MPU board. Sound and solenoids share "selection" signals.

Put the game in solenoid test mode, (press the little red switch inside the coin door 3 times).
Printed page 17 (electronic PDF page 22) has a solenoid identification table. While it runs through solenoid test mode the number on the player displays corresponds to the ID of the solenoid being activated.
If any of the solenoids are activating at the wrong number and/or not at all, please give us the full list so we can map out where the problem may be.

When solenoid #22 activates, you should hear the relay on the solenoid driver board click.

okay so major progress! So i took the MPU board and cleaned the header pins with some sand paper, while the machine was down i also finished replacing all of my ST board kit capacitors. After putting the board back in the PAC voice guy started talking and i opened the coin door and of course found the correct red test button. (i was using the vector speed reset button earlier).

So i ran the test mode and it seems all of the solenoids are energizing when they should and the relay driver board clicks at Solenoid 22. None of the flippers do anything.

#30 5 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from Jordan_H:
So i ran the test mode and it seems all of the solenoids are energizing when they should and the relay driver board clicks at Solenoid 22. None of the flippers do anything.

Run the solenoid test again and hold both flipper buttons in. When it gets to solenoid #22, do the flippers quickly flip?

#31 5 years ago

JMH

Jordan_H

Inactive member

Got it up and running thanks guys! Still gonna repin everything

1 month later

#32 5 years ago

JMH

Jordan_H

Inactive member