(Topic ID: 141391)

Bally Vector lamp driver 5v low, diplays flicker

By CanadianGamer

7 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 11 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by KenH
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 7 years ago

Just a quick question to anyone that can help. I have a Bally Vector that's in fantastic shape but for one thing, the displays all have a very tiny flutter (not even enough to call it a "flicker") to them. Happens constantly at a steady pulse, and isn't even all that noticeable but I'd still like to find out the cause.The solenoid driver board has had the update mods done to it by the previous owner, and a new C23. Everything looks great, like good voltages on the displays (175v) solenoid driver board, MPU, but not the Lamp Driver board, the 5v is only 4.8 on it.

Is 4.8 too low? Could it be the cause of the display flicker/flutter/anomaly somehow?

I've re-flowed the solder on all the displays, checked voltages on them, pushed the wires in on all the connectors everywhere, pins look good, and this has all helped but I can't get rid of it entirely.

I tried running it without the auxiliary lamp drivers to see if they were what's causing it but no change.

I tried swapping in another working solenoid driver board, and a lamp driver board but no change. Both lamp driver boards were running at 4.8v. Where would the loss in votage be coming from, and again could it be the cause of this? Or? I've scoured the internet for every post I could find on the topic and so far I can't find the answer. Like I said it's not a big problem, I just hate it when things aren't right.

Thanks for any input, just some gratuitous pics below with no real connection to the post lol.

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#2 7 years ago

Voltage drop is going to be between the 25 pin connector on the driver board to the displays. 4.8v is high enough. MEasure ripple on the 175v line.

#3 7 years ago

A lot of times on Bally -35's, the display flicker is caused by the original 'chicklet' capacitor on the MPU. Its the cap next to the 555 timer chip, that looks like a chicklet (I don't have the number in front of me).

The chicklet cap regulates the interrupt timing for the displays--it goes bad and doesn't generate the right timing for the displays, and causes them to flicker.

If your MPU still has the original, and it looks like a chicklet, then just replace it.

#4 7 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Voltage drop is going to be between the 25 pin connector on the driver board to the displays. 4.8v is high enough. MEasure ripple on the 175v line.

I did measure the AC ripple on the C23 if that's what you're referring to? It measured 0.1 so that was good anyhow.

And thanks for the tip on the chicklet cap KenH, I will check into that, it's probably original. I'll report back any findings, thanks!

#5 7 years ago

I looked that up. Its C16 on the MPU.

Its a 0.1uF, 100V. I've replaced them with physically smaller axial lead caps -- not whatever that chicklet thing is, and it works fine. Just make sure to match or exceed the voltage rating (100V).

Like these work fine:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kemet/C430C104K1R5TA7200/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt3KoXD5rJ2N7PtT0SQbQfdHA6OK10BtvY%3d

#6 7 years ago

Wow, thanks for the effort Ken, much appreciated! I'll check on it after work today, might even have a cap laying around that will work.

#7 7 years ago

That c16 capacitor times the display interrupt. Scope or frequency check out the display interrupt before blindly replacing it. 320 a second is the pulse time.

The polyester cap is used because of the accuracy. A ceramic cap can have 20% tolerance.

Still you should look at the ripple on the 185v line. Bad c26 will cause lack of filter and bumpy ripple which makes the displays flicker. The c26 caps do go bad with high esr.

#8 7 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

A ceramic cap can have 20% tolerance.

Good call. The tolerance of the one I linked to was 10%, which is the same the original cap, so should be good.

#9 7 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

A ceramic cap can have 20% tolerance.

Many ceramics can be off by as much as 80%! Not long ago, 20% ceramics were the norm and 10% parts tended to cost more but the 10% parts have come down considerably. You can get ceramics as close as 5% but that tolerance tends to cost much more than 10%. At the time, Polyester caps were chosen due to it's tighter tolerance and tend to be more robust than a ceramic.

#10 7 years ago

Thanks for your input guys! I don't have a scope, or any way to check frequency on c26 (unless I can check it with my DMM?) I had a new Alltek board in another game that I decided to throw into Vector to see if it solved the problem and it did. This tells me it's something to do with the MPU. So I had an old MPU kicking around that I took a 0.1uF, 100V cap off to try on my C16. It did the trick! Only thing now is after playing a game I noticed my playfield score display (Vector has one under playfield) started acting up, the rest are fine. It looks like it loses power a little from time to time at certain points in the game, and goes very faint and choppy looking, and then it's fine... Could it be the cap I replaced? It wasn't new by any means, just worked better than my old one it seemed. I'll be pulling the display out to check the usual connections and soldering etc, but I have a hunch it has something to do with my work the mpu today... I've recently had it out and went over all that though so I don't know, I'm sure it never had this problem till now. Crap! I guess I should also check the connectors at the MPU to make sure the wires didn't come loose taking them on and off a few times...

A scope is top on my list of equipment to buy, and then an EPROM programmer.

Edit: Ok, it was the wires on the connectors coming a bit loose after removing them a few times. I guess new connectors might be in order as well! Thanks again everyone, and you were right Ken! Cheers.

#11 7 years ago

Great! Yeah, for some reason that cap is always bad--not bad enough to make the game not work, but just bad enough to make the displays look bad.

I've replaced a bunch of those with the 10%, 100V part I linked to above, and the displays always look rock solid afterwards.

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