(Topic ID: 282722)

Bally strikes and spares - drain return and round bumpers not working

By CousinLarry

3 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 17 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by frunch
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 years ago

Hi,

I have a Bally strikes and spares where the drain return and the round bumpers have stopped working. Everything else is fine (as far as I can tell).

I’ve pulled the fuses and checked them (the 6 near the power supply and the single one under the play field), they are fine. I’m a bit of a noob with pinball technical maintenance but happy to give anything a shot- Can anyone suggest what I should do to troubleshoot the issue next?

Thanks

#2 3 years ago

Welcome! You found the right place for help.

So all 3 of the pop bumpers aren't working, and at least one other switch. Have you tried activating the slingshots (the triangular bumpers above the flippers)? I ask because they share the same circuit as the pop bumpers and if they aren't working either, that may give us a clue. Also, how about the 'S' target? Does that score when activated?

#3 3 years ago

Thanks so much for your help.

Going through the entire playfield (and thanks for the terminology, and forgive my crude descriptions below!):

The Slingshots are registering the contact, but not initialising the “flick” to push the ball out into the playfield.

The S targets S P A R E are all working. S target to the left of the field with 500 under it is working.

The “wires” triggers (that poke up through the playfield) A B C at the very top are working, as are both sets on the "chutes" either side of the slingshots.

The "speedball chute” spinner is working as are all 10 “pins” in the centre of the play field.

Looks like your intuition is correct, that single circuit seems to be failing....

#4 3 years ago

Do you have experience opening up the playfield? I ask because the next thing i would check is the fuse under the playfield. You might actually be able to see it and possibly reach it through the coin door. It's usually fairly close to the area the flippers are, and it's usually a 1-amp slow blow/MDL fuse. See if you can locate that fuse, pull it out and check it for continuity with a meter. If you don't know how, i can help.

Starting to suspect none of the solenoids are firing except the flippers...

#5 3 years ago

So other than the flippers none of the playfield coils are working I gather. There is a 1ASB fuse on the bottom of the playfield. It sounds like that is blown.

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

So other than the flippers none of the playfield coils are working I gather. There is a 1ASB fuse on the bottom of the playfield. It sounds like that is blown.

He mentioned checking fuses, but it sure could be. I had a very similar issue on my Bally ST. The under PF fuse clip had broken and then there was also a bad solder joint at the right flipper, so power wasn't going beyond there.

#7 3 years ago

You’re all right. The fuse under the play field is blown (I wasn’t using the multimeter correctly initially!!!). I’m at the fuse shop now and they identified it as a 2.5a fuse, not 1a. I’ve got both 1a and 2.5a fuses now - going to head home abd put the 1a in and see how she goes

#8 3 years ago

Ok, I put the 1a in and nothing, same issue as before. I put the 2.5a in, and everything worked! However there was another issue....

The top right pop bumper is always on, which is probably why the fuse blew in the first place. You can see photos and videos here. https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0bJ0DiRHJszubj

There’s a nice burning smell too, which is always what you want in a pinball machine.

Any advice on how to troubleshoot the pop bumper would be appreciated!

#9 3 years ago

Make sure the spoon switch isn't stuck closed. Could be that simple. If it is not stuck closed, it could be that the little capacitor has shorted, or the diode is shorted or the transistor on the driver board is bad. It's pretty rare that the coil will be the issue, but it happens.

#10 3 years ago

Sounds like you may have a bad transistor on the Solenoid Driver Unit (SDU), causing that pop bumper to lock on. I'd open up the backbox and look for a fried transistor on the SDU (the transistors are toward the bottom of the board)... The fuse was blowing because of the pop bumper locking on... Higher rated fuse is allowing the pop bumper to remain locked on, which is why you caught a whiff of the magic smoke (the 1A fuse was cutting it off before it could start burning stuff up)...

#11 3 years ago

I’ve opened the box up, added some photos to https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0bJ0DiRHJszubj

There’s two clear burn marks on the board. Is the fix to solder on some new transistors?

I’ll do a bit more research into the SDU

#12 3 years ago

thanks @frunch, BigAl56 and RC_like_the_cola , I've noticed a couple of things (and bear with me, I'm learning as I go!)

1) Looking at the schematic (https://www.ipdb.org/files/2406/Bally_1978_Strikes_and_Spares_Manual_w_Schematics.pdf but the page of relevance uploaded to the gallery also https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0bJ0DiRHJszubj) the top right pop bumper is no 9 on the SDU. frunch if it is the transistor would there be any visual indication?
2) Is no 9 on the schematic refer to the marking CR9 next to the resistors on the SDU? or does it refer to Q9 which is printed under the transistors?
3) The two burns on the SDU from resistors seem to have been repaired long ago - the resistors look good. They're also on items other than 9 - so maybe this one is a red herring?

RC_like_the_cola The spoon looks good - it looks the same as the others in all aspects.

#13 3 years ago

Thanks for the pics, that'll help us troubleshoot this further.

Even though it says the right pop bumper is #9 on the chart, that chart is referring to the pop bumper activation switch, but not the coil itself. Checking the schematics, it looks like the right pop bumper coil is controlled by Q14 on the SDU. Screenshot_20201203_130027_com.google.android.apps.docs(1).jpgScreenshot_20201203_130027_com.google.android.apps.docs(1).jpg

Those other burned up areas could certainly be from previous repairs.

Do you have a multimeter? If so, the transistor can be checked using the diode test function. Let us know if you have a meter and we'll take it from there. If not, it's time to get one

2 weeks later
#14 3 years ago

Sorry for the radio silence for a while frunch RC_like_the_cola BigAl56

I’ve read all them with a multimeter:

Q19 436
Q18 546
Q17 546
Q16 546
Q15 552
Q14 494
Q13 534
Q12 573
Q11 502
Q10 541
Q9 508
Q8 522
Q7 556
Q6 504
Q5 531
Q4 527
Q3 503
Q2 598
Q1 509

Q19 and Q14 (as you picked out frunch ) are the ones that seem to be out of range. So these need to be replaced... ? I’ll have a look for what Q19 does too

#15 3 years ago

Q19 is coin lockout, which would explain why I’ve never noticed it- haven’t used coins for decades in this thing!

#16 3 years ago

I’ve seen YouTube videos like

that attempt to replace the transistor while in the machine. I am a novice with a soldering iron, should I attempt to cut out and solder on a new transistor while the board is in the machine?

#17 3 years ago

I would pull the board out of the game for testing, it's easier to access everything and get the meter probes in the right spots.

You were on the right track testing the transistor with your meter in diode test, but here's the exact procedure for testing them:

On the top side of the board, put the black lead of your meter on the metal tab of the transistor you're testing. Keep the black lead there while testing the following:

Put the red lead of your meter on the center lead of a transistor. Your meter should read zero.

Put the red lead of your meter on either outside lead of a transistor one at a time. Your meter should read in the .4 to .6 volt range.

Put the red lead of your meter on the other outside lead of the transistor. Your meter should again read in the .4 to .6 volt range.

If your meter reads anything outside the .4 to .6 range, replace that transistor

Note that this test isn't 100% accurate, as they can sometimes test good even when they're bad. However, if it tests bad with the meter you can pretty much rest assured it's bad. You can always compare readings with other transistors nearby too. If you decide the replace the transistor, it's recommended to use a TIP102 as a substitute for the SE9302 transistors that were originally installed.

Good luck, and share your findings! Ask any questions you run into along the way, too.

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