(Topic ID: 317133)

Bally/Stern SS's - Introducing "ColourClassic" Score Displays

By AlanJ

1 year ago


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43
#1 1 year ago

Been working away on this project for the past few weeks.

I had a silly idea a while back about bringing full colour score displays to Bally (and Stern) Classic Solid State Games.

I wanted them to be plug and play - i.e. Simply remove your old score displays and slot in these new ones.

A nice range of font and colour options.

Ability to add your own "fonts".

Splash screen - again user selectable / can create your own.

Here is a Fathom Splash screen - very raw example, just from a photo off the cab side art:
IMG_2392 (resized).JPEGIMG_2392 (resized).JPEG

Here are some examples of score display styles:
IMG_2393 (resized).JPEGIMG_2393 (resized).JPEG
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IMG_2400 (resized).JPEGIMG_2400 (resized).JPEG

Here is a youtube video of the display in demo mode:

Very much a work in progress.

#2 1 year ago

Prototype boards:
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IMG_2562 (resized).JPEGIMG_2562 (resized).JPEG
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Any some pics in a game:
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IMG_2571 (resized).JPEGIMG_2571 (resized).JPEG

Uses off the shelf components - ESP32s development board, SD card reader board and 3 IC's. Plus the 6 or 7 Colour screen score display units. The production board will end up with more components on it - caps and resistors.

5 months later
#19 1 year ago

Been busy with game refurbs all summer, so not looked at this until a few days ago. now i’ve nearly got everything working!

Quick videos. i’ve set the display to change “font” every 20 seconds. you can decide if you want a fixed font or cycle through all fonts, or pick one at random. 21 jpeg fonts and then 4 different 7 segment fonts with a choice of 10 colours on each . so 61 different possibilities!!! more to come in future too:

Next video, how to setup and configure:

#21 1 year ago
Quoted from DudeRegular:

These are very cool! Look forward to more info. Will 6 digit be an option?

yes i’ve done 6 and 7 digit versions.

#22 1 year ago

The development is over and we have a fully working system:

and

There is wifi communication between the 5 separate score displays, so that one of the units decides what “font” to display and sends the new font to the other 4 displays.

I’ve also added the ability for a unit to run without an sd card installed. (in this case it can display 40 different “rendered” 7-segment style fonts, but cannot display the jpeg files (which are on the sd card). This makes it a cheaper option for anyone not interested in jpeg images, but wants the colour choice flexibility. (The sd card reader is cheap, so i’d always recommend installing this on all boards). why? Because:

I’ve also added a software firmware update option. This auto upgrades the software if a new version is saved onto the sd card.

I’ve done a lot of testing on these, but still more tests to do.

Almost ready to offer these out as a “community” project for anyone who wants to build their own set.

I’ll publish a BOM - Bill of materials and typical costs. All the components are readily available, off the shelf, the only thing that isn’t are the two pcbs - the 6 or 7 digit display board pcb and the base controller board. I’ll get a batch of these produced once i’ve got an idea of demand.

I may also be able to source all the hardware parts into a kit if there is demand for that too?

The software will be made available to upload to your own board. Again I could possibly pre-load this onto the esp32s if I’m supplying these.

#23 1 year ago

BOM:

6 Digit Display Board:
6 Digit Display PCB with SMD Sockets pre-soldered 1
IPS 1.14" 8 pin SPI TFT Display 135X240 Pixels 6
2X16p Right angled Male Header 1

7 Digit Display Board:
7 Digit Display PCB with SMD Sockets pre-soldered 1
IPS 1.14" 8 pin SPI TFT Display 135X240 Pixels 7
2X16p Right angled Male Header 1

4 Digit Display Board (Credit/Match/Ball in Play):
6 Digit Display PCB with SMD Sockets pre-soldered 1
IPS 1.14" 8 pin SPI TFT Display 135X240 Pixels 4
2X16p Right angled Male Header 1

Base Controller Board:
Base Controller Board bare PCB 1
2X16p Female Header Socket 1
10p 3.96mm / 0.156" male header 2
15p Female Header Socket 2
Dil 16p IC socket 3
SN74HC165N Shift Register IC 2
SN74HC595N Shift Register IC 1
2N4403 / 2N3906 Transistor 1
10k Resistor 1
ESP32s Devkit Doit V1.0 Processor module 30 pin 1
Micro SD card reader board 1
Micro SD Card 128Mb 1
15cm double Sided foam tape 1

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from pete_d:

Ugh. I hope that can be turned off. Should've been wired, but at the very least, it should be possible to opt out of cluttering up the radio environment with more wifi signals. It can be hard enough to get devices that actually need wifi to find some spare spectrum, without other stuff that could've easily been hard-wired using it up.

Hi, apprecaite your comment.

It only uses it if it needs to, & can be switched off. it's very very low level comms between the units, not a full blown wifi connection that needs them all configuring & connecting to a wifi network. They don't even create a real wi-fi network. 4 of the units just listen for messages, the "Sender" unit will only broadcast a message if the font changes, which is probably not something that is going to happen that often outside of demo modes. There is no need to define a "Sender", & in that case nothing is ever broadcast.

I didn't want to introduce any additional hard wiring requirement in the game itself - these are 100% plug and play compatible with the original bally (or stern) displays, so no mods required to the game itself. I also didn't want to have to string additional wires between the units, as that makes installation just that little bit harder.

#29 1 year ago

What’s involved in building the devices:

First the base board:
060CA9B4-56FC-4349-931C-936A8963549C (resized).jpeg060CA9B4-56FC-4349-931C-936A8963549C (resized).jpeg
Not a lot to solder

34A4A9E8-C76C-4DA5-A92B-C191892C7E84 (resized).jpeg34A4A9E8-C76C-4DA5-A92B-C191892C7E84 (resized).jpeg
Some headers and sockets, sd card reader module and 3 ic sockets

F94A0B78-F997-4CCB-BC33-E9FFAB573598 (resized).jpegF94A0B78-F997-4CCB-BC33-E9FFAB573598 (resized).jpeg
Complete with the esp32s processor board plugged in.

All components are std off the shelf components, so all readily available and easy to repair in future.

#30 1 year ago

Secondly the vertical display board:

C1600882-099F-42B3-B8CB-BC7ED23EA6DE (resized).jpegC1600882-099F-42B3-B8CB-BC7ED23EA6DE (resized).jpeg

79BDC121-57B1-4E16-B09A-83452BC6F7A7 (resized).jpeg79BDC121-57B1-4E16-B09A-83452BC6F7A7 (resized).jpeg
First add the header pins to the display side of the board.
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Plug in each of the screen connectors, there is a black retaining clip that holds each firmly in place. 591D1660-8D31-48D6-B3CF-2D654BC12704 (resized).jpeg591D1660-8D31-48D6-B3CF-2D654BC12704 (resized).jpeg
Use double sided tape to secure each display unit to the board.
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All done, remember to remove the plastic screen protector film!!!

#31 1 year ago

I am pricing up kits, should have this in a day or three. Trying to keep costs very much to the component and board cost plus a small allowance for me to cover some spare parts and also economies of scale, which never work out at an exact number of units.

The software I have written will be provided FREE OF CHARGE. As will be forum/email support from myself.

I have all sorts of ideas to improve the product (more fonts etc) and will happily take enhancement requests, with new versions of the software again provided FOC.

Someone has asked me why I didn’t use a single large screen, instead of individual screens?

I would love to use a single large screen, but there isn’t a suitable screen on the market that has the correct dimensions and the right resolution. the 7 displays are 135x240 pixels. which gives 945 x 240 in total.
I have found screens that appear to suit but they use an interface that is complex and difficult (impossible) to integrate with an esp32 processor. I could get them going via a raspberry pi- but that just makes the price uneconomical. I have spent a lot of time trying all sorts of different screens and interfaces. these 1.14” ips screens are the best at the moment. In future, if a decent large screen becomes available, I will of course use it. A close second are the smaller 0.96” ips screens, but they just don’t look right, even though they are cheaper than the 1.14”.

#32 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinslot:

Looks awesome. (And made me think back to great nights in Leeds and Sheffield as a student). This is my favorite era of games, so following with interest.
One question: at one of the local pinball clubs here all the games with 5v replacement displays gradually failed. The fix was to buy mini transformers and stop taking power from the power board.
How will your displays be powered?

Hi, I have tested for months in my own games and they are taking power from the existing 5v. As yet I haven’t had any issues.

As you correctly point out, the extra power draw from replacement led score displays can strain the old 5v supply. These ones take a similar amount of power.

Even though I haven’t had to use it, I have trialled using an off the shelf 5a voltage regulator board - like this:
E9D62FEE-8F01-4D34-B942-0485973700F1 (resized).jpegE9D62FEE-8F01-4D34-B942-0485973700F1 (resized).jpeg
it takes 6-30v dc input, so i hook it into the 12v off the sdb (big cap is a good hookup point) and then this can be used to power the displays (or other 5v mods).

#35 1 year ago
Quoted from Xtraball:

Any chance you’d offer some sets already built for those like myself who know their limitations?

I’m sure we can offer some fully built sets. watch this space.

#37 1 year ago

Update: Still working on BOM pricing.

Software wise, all working apart from on some of the later Bally Games, e.g. Medusa - the interval time between the display of HSTD and Last Game Scores, is very fast and doesn't give enough time to display both scores especially when they are big scores and when each digit is different - e.g. HSTD = 1234500 and last game score = 5432100 - this is worst case scenario where 5 digits have to be re-drawn to the screens.

The rendered 7-segment fonts are fast enough, but the jpeg images from the SD card are too slow to be displayed. I've changed the code to use the most optimised jpeg decoder library, and it still isn't fast enough.

So, next best thing is to switch to rendered 7-segment images when in attract/game over mode. That then presents a whol new challenge - how to tell if a game is in game over mode, or actually in a game?

Any suggestions?

Ideas so far:
1. Look at the credit match display - if the right hand side digit is non blank or non-zero - then we are in a game. Otherwise we are in attract mode. (Ignoring self test mode - for time being).
2. On startup, wait for the first non blank, non-zero score to be displayed - that is the HSTD - remember it, and it it starts being displayed on P1-P4 score displays, then we are in attract mode. Need to keep track of any game score that exceeds to HSTD and then use that in future.

#41 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

Note with most other Ballys, the HSTD speed is controlled by zero crossing counters which is consistent based on the line frequency of the country.
However with Medusa the display interrupt generator plays a part in the HSTD speed. From memory, a MPU board with the display interrupt running at 320Hz (designed for 6-digit games from factory) running in Medusa causes the HSTD speed to be too fast. Check the resistor at R21 on the MPU board in your game which should be 24k ohms so the display interrupts are generated at 420Hz (for 7-digit games from factory).

thanks i’ll check that.

Games i can test in are:
lost world
paragon
fireball ii
fathom
centaur
medusa
elektra
8 ball deluxe le - but little point as scores behind a red screen!!
i’ve no classic stern games anymore so can’t test in those easily

i’ve also got to test different mpu boards and different settings, eg free play, match feature on or off, etc. etc.

I’ve got the code now picking up attract mode in medusa and lost world. need to build some more units so i can have a few games on test at the same time. …….

#42 1 year ago
Quoted from Coyote:

What about non-compressed images? Like PNG or plain'ol GIF?

I’m happy to have a look at these, I need to grab some arduino/esp32s code that displays those file formats to a tft display.

#50 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

Normally I would say (1) would work great, but some games now are using this display to display spinner counters or other information. Also, that display isn't consistent across all games, sometimes it's shifted IIRC.
(2) would work great for non-stern mpu200 games that display the hstd at the start of the last ball.
Can you tap into other signals like the ball in play lamp or strictly the display signals? You could have a sense wire to the ball in play lamp, when it's lit, you're in a game (unless you're in lamp test)
Or the game over lamp of course.

I've checked all my bally games and nothing seems to use the ball counter digit when a game is in progress, i.e. they all show 1,2,3,4,5 etc for the ball in play. Some games do write to it at the end of the game when it shows the random sequence of match numbers - centaur, fathom, fireball II. but that isn't an issue for me, as it only occurs for a second or two before ending then game and then dripping into "game over" mode, at which time the match number selected always ends in a zero on the ball in play digit (far rightmost digit on the display).

On the bally games I have, nothing seems to use the display for any other purpose? I wonder if it is on stern games? Regretting that I sold my stern games.......

My Medusa has an alltek board, I wonder if this is why it's switching very quickly. Checked the jumpers on the alltek - set to bally/stern mpu100 not to stern mpu200

I've also checked out centaur, fathom and fireball II and they have a much slow cycle between HSTD and last game scores, - all using original bally mpu boards.

#51 1 year ago

I tried PNG files - they are less compressed than the jpegs, but still need decoding. The total time to read from sd card, decode and then display to the screen is more or less the same as the jpeg files.

#54 1 year ago

"There are some rom mods that use it both original board and Arduino add ins.">

Aha - I see......that's a nuisance (to me!)

#55 1 year ago

So, I have got this far:
There is now a new parameter that you can set, which is called "Attract Mode Font" - this can either be 0 (zero) which means "Do not use the attract mode font feature", or it can be any of the fonts numbered 21-60 (these are the fast 'rendered' 7-segment fonts.

Currently, to detect if a game is in attract mode, the CMB display (Credit/Match/Ball-in-play), looks at the far right digit - if this is 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, then it assumes a game is in play (that is the current ball in play number), otherwise it assumes we are in game over/attract mode. I will happily look at other ways to do this, in the near future, but it must be derived from the score display data present at the score display - I don't want to have to string wires around the back box, trying to pick up lamp data signals, etc. That defeats my "Prime Directive" of "Simple Plug in Replacement" !!!

The CMB display keeps a track of the current mode, and if it changes, it sends a message to the 4 player displays to tell them the new game mode. The CMB display will switch it's own display to the "Attract Mode Font" if it is non-zero.

Each of the Player Displays P1-P4 will pick up the message, and act on it. i.e. if the game has gone into Attract Mode, and the "Attract Mode Font" (for that display) is non-zero, it will switch to using the Attract Mode Font. And if the game then comes out of attract mode, it will re-instate the last font used.

The reason I have left each P1-P4 display to decide whether to use an attract mode font at all, and if so, which one, is for total flexibility. e.g. you may want different coloured fonts on different players, when in attract mode - e.g. P1, P3 White, P2, P4 Red, CMB - Green.

#57 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

With early Ballys and Stern MPU100 games when the Match feature is disabled, the last ball in play number remains after game over. i.e. it will stay as '3' or '5' and doesn't go to zero. You can see this behavior with your Lost World if you disable Match.

Alltek board runs the display around 426Hz from memory so the HSTD speed you're seeing should be about normal for the way Medusa operates. As I said Medusa is a special case.
BTW, we love what you're doing!

Thank you for this - yes confirmed in my lost world - so that method wont work. I'm going to go back to looking for the HSTD itself, seems a better solution anyway

#58 1 year ago

Spent most of the day working on the HSTD method, and it seems to be working pretty well.

The new code does this:
1. Get a score, if its the highest score, then its the HSTD.
2. If HSTD is being displayed then switch into a faster font (optional).
3. If the HSTD stops being displayed (after a few seconds), then we have dropped into a game, switch back to the prev font.

The testing overhead for me is getting ridiculous, there are so many permutations now:
a - different games
b - different game settings on the dip switches
c - different MPU's
d - 6 or 7 digit displays, or CMBIP display
e - whether SD card present or not
f - 61 different font settings (but really only 2 types - jpeg and rendered)
g - 4 different font movement settings
h - send and receiver modes to synchronise changes of font across all games in a display.

So, rest of today - testing.............

#59 1 year ago

bingo!!! a really long day but i think i’ve cracked it all. tested in various games with various settings and swapped mpus between games as well.

I’ve also worked on a principle of “minor gains” and replaced the jpeg decoder for an ever so slightly faster one; found a new way to talk to the sd card, and speeded up the data transfer rate; pushed the tft displays up to a faster data transfer rate whilst still performing reliably. need some sleep now zzz

Tomorrow i’ll sort out the parts pricing as promised a few days ago.

#61 1 year ago

Kit Prices:
======

Hey folks, I've got the parts all priced up. Works out around £32.80 - £34.80 per display kit.
So for a complete set of 5 displays = £164 for 6 digits and £174 for 7 digit.
I've included everything in the pricing EXCEPT for the Micro SD HC card. (I'm sure you can source these yourselves, if you don't have any lying around already).

Shipping from UK to USA - International Tracked & Signed for £23 (up to 750g weight), which is enough for 1 set. +£6 a set for each additional set, up to a max of 3 sets in one package.

PLEASE NOTE PRICING IS IN £ GBP, not US$ as I am in UK.

Kit comprises, for each display:
For the Display PCB:
1 X 6 or 7 way Display PCB with SMD FPC Sockets pre-soldered on
6,7 or 4 (for CMBIP) X IPS 1.14" 8 pin SPI TFT Display 135X240 Pixels ST7789
1 X Double 16p Right Angled Male Header pins
For the Controller PCB:
1 X Base Controller Board bare PCB
1 X Double 16p Female Header Socket
2 X 10p 3.96mm / 0.156" male header
2 X 15p Female Header Socket
3 X Dil 16p IC socket
2 X SN74HC165N Shift Register IC
1 X SN74HC595N Shift Register IC
1 X 2N4403 Transistor
1 X 10k Resistor
1 X 2.2k Resistor
1 X ESP32s Devkit Doit V1.0 Processor module 30 pin, with the ColourClassics Displays firmware pre-loaded
1 X Micro SD card reader board
1 X 15cm double Sided foam tape
Note: Micro SD HC Memory Card NOT INCLUDED

A Set of 5 will include for the Credit/Match/Ball-in-Play: A 6 way display board with just 4 IPS Screens (This is to keep costs down).

Spare IPS screens £2.50 each.

Anyone wishing to source components, screens themselves, I can provide the 2 PCBs for £6 a pair. The Base controller PCB is totally unpopulated, but the 6 or 7 digit display PCB will have the SMD, FPC connector sockets already pre-soldered to the board. Unfortunately again shipping from UK to USA is not cheap £8 economy (not tracked, so at your risk) or £20 fully tracked and signed. I can ship up to 5 pairs of boards for those prices. if you just wanted a single board pair to try out, the postage will be cheaper - £5.50 is lowest untracked.

Not taking money just yet, however I'd like an idea of interest, so I can go order the parts in bulk.

#64 1 year ago

OK - I've ordered boards and parts to make up a few kit sets. Will be a few weeks before these arrive. Whilst I'm waiting I will continue to test, document and also start working on other software features for a future release.

#66 1 year ago

Today plenty of game to game testing. For safety I tried full on max current draw using a test program to switch on all displays full white (max current draw) - on some games F3 4A blows.

On quite a few if my games i have 5A fuse in F3 as using the 5v line for other add on mods.

Lm323k 5v reg on SDB rated 3A, but with current limiting built in. so far none blown. ran my fathom (with 5A fuse) overnight and no fail, no overheat even with the additional display current draw. I’ll measure actual current draw next (need to hack a display to put ammeter in the circuit).

some games have a 5A regulator instead on the SDB (not 323k) so i’ll check if any of my games have that. fathom deffo 323k

My gut feel is to add in an additional 5v from the 11.9v, which necessitates changing F3 from 4A to 5A anyway (bridge rectifier can easily handle the extra current), but now wondering if it’s just ok to update F3 ? I think the answer lies in what max current draw these displays demand.

#67 1 year ago

Each display unit is drawing a max current of 460mA. 5 Units in a std game = 2.3A.

#71 1 year ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

I’m in for a 6 digit set. This will fit in the playfield window for Medusa, right?

Yes, medusa playfield display is a std 6 digit score display.

#74 1 year ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

Cool, put me down for a 6 digit. Bonus points if you can add some spiffy Clash of the Titans looking font.

You can add your own jpeg fonts, but if you can find some images i’ll happily include them and resize them to fit the displays. pixel size is 135 wide x 240 high btw.

#76 1 year ago

attract mode - the game flicks between hstd and last game scores. So you’d have to lose those being displayed in order to show something else. maybe i could make it so it switches between all of them???

#78 1 year ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

I love the idea of little displays where the scores are. I see the discussions about update rate and wanted ask a couple of questions. On Eight Ball and Future Spa (2 games I have). The stock code will mimic the old score reels by running the score value up progressively at a rate of 10 Hz. I have written a new rule set for Eight Ball using the new BallySternOS arduino board and I flash the credit display and ball-in-play display for other uses in game play. In my bonus countdown, I update the score display as fast as every 200 Hz which gives an intended blurred display for the rapidly changing digits. Would those features all still work with these displays?

Hi, quick answer. No. Sorry. i wish it could

why not: it takes longer to render an image on a tft screen. even if i render a number directly i’m still switching on 100’s of transistors individually in the tft display. compared to say just one cycle in a traditional display or led 7 seg display. each screen is 135 x 240 pixels. to render a full jpeg image is a lot of data to shift. then that X 6 or 7 digits!

#80 1 year ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

The 200 Hz is something that could be changed. In normal game play I don't do anything faster than 10 Hz. What rate can these displays update at or is it variable depending on the image? If I need a blurred image I could just display one I assume.

yes it depends on image size, but the faster method is where we draw lines to the display to create the numbers - two formats currently, 7 segment style and also "dots". - I could maybe create another option which overlays one number onto another without clearing the previous - this would blur quickly......

#81 1 year ago

The bally game code on many games seems to do weird stuff when it is outputing score data.

E.g. when a players score is flashing (on some games) to indicate it is that player turn and no score yet this ball, the bally mpu puts out the digit value, latches it into the display, but then a few cycles later it overwrites with a blank, and latches that in, before dropping the blanking line to actually display.

Then, even weirder one. I have noticed on fathom that if the player 1 score is blinking, and I have P2 game up, the P2 score data gets some incorrect data being latched into its display (again blanking is high so it's never displayed), then a few cycles later the correct value is latched in. As I say this only happens with P1 score is flashing. No idea why the game code would do something like this.

The data is displayed in descending order - digits 7 down to 1. Digit 7 being left most on the display.
Another really annoying thing I have noticed is that when it does flash a players score, I would have hoped that it starts blanking on digit 7, but it appears it can start the blanking on any digit at random. This makes it tricky to get a score - e.g. score might be 7,654,320 - but sometimes it will have blanked the 7 or 7 & 6 or the 3,2,0 etc. Makes my ability to pick up the current score a bit more difficult! It also makes it tricky to get a really nice solid blinking effect.

#83 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

This is a downside of having two interrupts.... The score blinking timer is in the zero cross so isn't going to sync with the display interrupt.

Aha. that explains it. I’ve just had to suck it up and deal with it.

It’s fascinating to grab a bunch of display output data and see what the game pumps out!!!

Current version of the firmware handles all these issues across a variety of games and mpus.

I’ve tested in Fathom, Medusa, Lost World, Fireball II, 8 ball deluxe, elektra, paragon and centaur.

1 week later
#86 1 year ago

New Pcbs have arrived. and so have 100’s of Ips colour screens
0DD2E0BB-4BFD-4554-A448-36D005798B43 (resized).jpeg0DD2E0BB-4BFD-4554-A448-36D005798B43 (resized).jpeg
DD9A6E9C-0951-40B4-B7BD-43155F54DB5E (resized).jpegDD9A6E9C-0951-40B4-B7BD-43155F54DB5E (resized).jpeg
9B61C3CB-F8B8-4686-9351-561BE7C774B3 (resized).jpeg9B61C3CB-F8B8-4686-9351-561BE7C774B3 (resized).jpeg
5D88DAC5-BAA0-4129-A6E3-0DF6FD9F5742 (resized).jpeg5D88DAC5-BAA0-4129-A6E3-0DF6FD9F5742 (resized).jpeg

Still waiting for other components…….

Software still in testing and making minor improvements……..

will update once i’ve got all the parts ready to ship

#90 1 year ago

a quick demo of render speed - each number displayed is being read as a jpeg file from the sd card, decoded and then sent to the display screen.

1 week later
#92 1 year ago

Parts have eventually all arrived. Almost ready to start shipping kits.

#95 1 year ago
Quoted from jturner:

How are you going to take orders?

Via messaging on here, paypal for payment.

#97 1 year ago

Hey folks – I am ready to ship initial sets of these as kits, and I really want to spread these out far and wide, and get as many people testing in as many different games as possible, so am offering to ship a full set of 5 display kits for £150 to include USA shipping. (Usual Price will be £187-£197). Limited to one set per person initially. You can have either a 6 digit or a 7 Digit set. I have 12 sets available initially.

Kit comprises, for each display:
-----------------------------------------
For the Display PCB: 1 X 6 or 7 way Display PCB with SMD FPC Sockets pre-soldered on
6,7 or 4 (for Credit/Match/BIP) X IPS 1.14" 8 pin SPI TFT Display 135X240 Pixels ST7789 driver
1 X Double 16p Right Angled Male Header pins
For the Controller PCB:
1 X Base Controller Board bare PCB
1 X Double 16p Female Header Socket
2 X 10p 3.96mm / 0.156" male header
2 X 15p Female Header Socket
3 X Dil 16p IC socket
2 X SN74HC165N Shift Register IC
1 X SN74HC595N Shift Register IC
1 X 2N4403 Transistor
1 X 10k Resistor
1 X 2.2k Resistor
1 X ESP32s Devkit Doit V1.0 Processor module 30 pin, ColourClassics Displays firmware pre-loaded
1 X Micro SD card reader board

Note: Micro SD HC Memory Card, and double sided tape, NOT INCLUDED

A Set of 5 will include for the Credit/Match/Ball-in-Play: A 6 way display board with just 4 IPS Screens (This is to keep costs down).

Optional Extras:
---------------------
Spare IPS screens £2.50 each.
Micro SD cards £2.50 each. (I will pre-load these with the jpeg Image files).

Jpeg images
----------------
I will make available a link to download the jpeg image files, to all customers, so you can populate your own Micro SD cards.

Self-assembly
-------------------
To assemble the kit, you will need to solder on the components, headers and sockets. The IPS Screens simply plug into the pre-soldered connectors, these are small and require delicate handling, I use plastic tweezers to insert the connector into the FPC socket.

Compatibility
========
Tested on my own games: Bally: Paragon, Lost World, Elektra, 8 Ball Deluxe, Medusa, Fathom, Centaur.

Other Bally games not tested.

Stern games not tested . Note: On 7 digit Stern games, you will need to bridge pin 11 to pin 12 on the large header on the base board (The one that connects to the game).

Any issues on other games, I will do my best to provide software updates to support more games, this is on a best endeavours basis and is not guaranteed.

5v Power Supply
==========
These displays make use of the 5v power supply in the game. They draw additional current, and you may need to upgrade the fuse and/or power supply in your game.

For safety I tried full on max current draw using a test program to switch on all displays full white (max current draw) - on some games F3 4A blows.

Each display has a max current draw of 460mA. So a set of 5 requires 2.3A.

On quite a few of my games I have 5A fuse in F3 as using the 5v line for other add on mods.

I have run my Fathom and Medusa or several weeks now, including overnight power on tests, with an uprated F3, 5A fuse and have experienced no issues. My SDB boards have the 3A rated LM323K Voltage regulator.

Another option is to provide an additional 5v power supply for the new displays. I can provide details on the easiest way to do this, if you require.

Ordering
========
Please PM me with your order:
1. Your Name
2. Your email address
3. Your phone number
4. Your Shipping Address
5. Which set you require: 6 Digit set or 7 Digit Set (4 X 7 digit + 1 X 6 digit)
6. How many spare IPS Screens (optional) £2.50
7. How many SD Cards (optional) £2.50

If I have enough stock, I will acknowledge order and will provide a paypal payment request.
if I'm out of stock, then I will add you to the waiting list.
Please pay friends/family to avoid paypal fees (much appreciated).
On receipt of funds, I will ship the kits and provide tracking info. Next post is Dec 29th due to Postal Strikes and the Holiday.

Build instructions are in this thread, Post #29 (although there are some additional components now, 2 resistors and a transistor).

User guide will be published soon, and it will be emailed to all customers anyway.

Many thanks,

Alan

#101 1 year ago

Thanks everyone, all PM's responded to.

#102 1 year ago

User Guide and Build Instructions Pdf's:
ColourClassic Score Display  User Guide V1.0.pdfColourClassic Score Display User Guide V1.0.pdfColourClassic Score Display Build Instructions V1.0.pdfColourClassic Score Display Build Instructions V1.0.pdf

#104 1 year ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

Is it possible to grab just one 6 digit display? I have LED displays in Medusa but I thought this might be fun for the main playfield.

Yes, but I need to just test one in the medusa playfield. I’ll aim to do that in the next few days.

#106 1 year ago
Quoted from Geocab:

Does the splash screen only appear when first turning on the game? Or will the display cycle through in attract mode? For instance, can I configure each player's display with a different word so Player 1 "Welcome", player 2 "to my", player 3 "arcade", and player 4 "room" can combine and display a message when you turn it on, and then cycle through HSTD, last played, and splash?

you can put different images as splash screen images on each display - so yes you could create that. However, Splash is only once on startup. There is not really enough time to display hstd, last game scores and the splash screens when in attract mode.

I’ll add it to the future enhancements list though - there may be a way……

#108 1 year ago

All the initial ones at the discounted price have been sold.

I’m packing all orders and shipping tomorrow.

I’ll be taking further orders in the New Year.

Alan.

#109 1 year ago

Couple of little construction tips:

Use two pairs of Pliers to pull out the Keying pin on the 0.156" headers. Use one to hold the plastic and the other to pull on the pin:
IMG_4058 (resized).jpegIMG_4058 (resized).jpeg

I've found electricians insulation tape the best to use as a temporary holder for the displays. (I don't like to stick them down permanently until I have tested).
It's enough just to tape the top of the display, so I can see most of the screen for testing.
IMG_4060 (resized).jpegIMG_4060 (resized).jpeg
IMG_4061 (resized).jpegIMG_4061 (resized).jpeg

#110 1 year ago

I've created splash screens for all the games I have, Plus a Generic Bally One.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

For each Game I have created a matching Set of 6 or 7 Images for the four player Score displays.
For the Credit / Match / BIP Display, because only 4 Digits are visible, I have created a "Single" Image.

E.g. - Lost World:
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

Then a Single Image for the CMBIP:
splash1 (resized).jpgsplash1 (resized).jpg

EDIT:
Now Added Star Trek and Flash Gordon.

#111 1 year ago

Now added splash screen images for these games:

8 Ball Deluxe
8 Ball Deluxe LE
Centaur
Dolly Parton
Elektra
Fathom
Fireball II
Flash Gordon
Future Spa
Harlem Globetrotters
Kiss
Lost World
Medusa
Paragon
Skateball
Space Invaders
Spectrum
Star Trek
Xenon

I will create more in future. We need good images of either backglass, cabinet art or flyer to create these.

#113 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

I’ll test the displays in Xenon. Besides Medusa, which you already tested, that’s the only Bally I currently have set up.
I have three classic Sterns set up that I will test: Star Gazer, Quicksilver and Freefall.
I should have flyers for the entire classic Stern lineup, and I’m building a WinXP computer so I can try my HP 4760 scanner for additional art. Some of the Stern flyers aren’t as nice as the Bally flyers were.

That sounds good. I’ve no stern games anymore so have not tried in any stern games yet.

Note: Pins 11 & 12 will need bridging on the 0.156” header in order for the 7th digit to work on Stern 7 digit games. (I’ll add a jumper to a future board revision).

#114 1 year ago

Finally found a day to get a set of Colour Classics permanently into Fireball II - complete with nice splash screens.

#115 1 year ago

Bobby Orr Power Play Splash screens added.

#116 1 year ago

I had a query from a couple of UK people who have received their kits and have built them.

They were concerned that the right hand display flickers when in setup mode. This is normal. (the display is blanked and refreshed too often - i’ll stop it happening in a later release).

#118 1 year ago

Added more splash screens:

8 Ball
Evel Kneivel
Mata Hari
Night Rider
Strikes n Spares
Playboy

#121 1 year ago
Quoted from Geocab:

Where are you adding these?

I emailed you a link a few days ago - they are in the "SD Card Images/splash screens" folder from that link.

#131 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

I have best luck using a screwdriver tip, just a bit wider than a pencil tip. Somewhere between 600-700 degrees is probably best.

I use a fine tip for most of the soldering. the transistor has the 3 closest legs. best to solder the middle leg first.

for the 0.156” header, a larger tip is better

#134 1 year ago

Good luck with all the builds everyone who has received theirs. Just a quick note:

One person built theirs earlier this week and tried a single unit in several of his games, it didn't work when installed alongside the 4 original displays. But removing them, made it work. I've not experienced this on any of my games, although I have to admit that all mine had LED score displays in them, and the new displays happily work alongside those. I checked with one of the UK guys, who built and installed his in Flash Gordon with original displays, he didn't have the issue.

Just something to watch out for.

I'll test one of my games over the weekend if I can find some original displays........(Ive got a box of them stashed somewhere......)

#140 1 year ago

I do most of my soldering at 400 Centigrade = 750F - not yet destroyed anything, sometime drop to 300 for delicate stuff. I've built 30 of these displays all on the higher setting. No issues.

Just found a couple of 7 digit orange HV displays - put them in fathom and all worked ok with the new displays.

IMG_4617 (resized).jpegIMG_4617 (resized).jpeg
IMG_4618 (resized).jpegIMG_4618 (resized).jpeg

#143 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Received the kits yesterday. The package was beat up pretty badly, but it doesn’t look like anything was damaged. [quoted image][quoted image]

Can you photo the damaged package with the label showing? if you still have it? if anything IS damaged I can then put in a claim

#144 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

Good luck with all the builds everyone who has received theirs. Just a quick note:
One person built theirs earlier this week and tried a single unit in several of his games, it didn't work when installed alongside the 4 original displays. But removing them, made it work. I've not experienced this on any of my games, although I have to admit that all mine had LED score displays in them, and the new displays happily work alongside those. I checked with one of the UK guys, who built and installed his in Flash Gordon with original displays, he didn't have the issue.
Just something to watch out for.
I'll test one of my games over the weekend if I can find some original displays........(Ive got a box of them stashed somewhere......)

Did a bit more testing, it seems the C/M/BIP original 6 digit display causes some issues? Not sure why. I know these displays have pins 10,11,12 all joined together - pin 10 the blanking line and pin 12 the 7 digit line on a 7 digit display, but pretty sure the backbox wiring deals with this and sticks the 7th digit line wire into the spare "KEY" pin at 14, so it doesn't get dragged down by the 6 digit display. (This is why if you ever have put a 6 digit display in a 7 digit game in P1,2,3,4 slots you will notice it messes up the first digit on any other 7 digit displays in the game - it lights up with zero all the time).

I cant see anything else in the 6 digit schematic or on the board that would interfere with anything? Bit stumped.

I'll do some testing tomorrow and look at the data lines with and without an original 6 digit display in the CMBIP space.

This is probably a moot point because generally you're all going to be installing a full set of 5 new displays, so it's a non issue really. Although one person was talking about just putting the colourclassic display in the playfield in medusa......Hmmm......

#147 1 year ago
Quoted from jturner:

Lots of soldering - 750 is the right temp for 60/40 lead solder - be sure to use a fume fan!
I created a quick 3D printed guide to aid in aligning the displays. You can find it here:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Ql0t2pOalzC1roXklp2KkJCo9PTJiCjC?usp=sharing[quoted image]

That's really cool John, now we need someone to do a 7 digit version too.

#148 1 year ago

Another quick tip for builders:

You can test and setup your new display simply by powering it from a 5v supply. e.g. usb to micro usb cable from your laptop. It's a lot easier than plugging it into your game.

Note: The display will stay on the splash screen as it waits to get some score data before removing the splash screen, but you should be able to enter the setup menu by pressing (for about 1/3 sec or more) and then releasing the "boot" button on the esp32s board. You can then go though the setup menus and configure the display. You should also see digits displayed whilst you do this.

Note button presses:
a short press < 300ms will change the setting value
long press > 300ms < 3 secs, moves to next menu
really long press > 3 secs is useful on some settings - e.g. setting the font - the really long press will reset the value to 0 (so it saves you having to press all the way through all the 61 fonts to get back to zero! It also works on the GameID setting.

Hope this helps.

Alan

#149 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

Did a bit more testing, it seems the C/M/BIP original 6 digit display causes some issues? Not sure why. I know these displays have pins 10,11,12 all joined together - pin 10 the blanking line and pin 12 the 7 digit line on a 7 digit display, but pretty sure the backbox wiring deals with this and sticks the 7th digit line wire into the spare "KEY" pin at 14, so it doesn't get dragged down by the 6 digit display. (This is why if you ever have put a 6 digit display in a 7 digit game in P1,2,3,4 slots you will notice it messes up the first digit on any other 7 digit displays in the game - it lights up with zero all the time).
I cant see anything else in the 6 digit schematic or on the board that would interfere with anything? Bit stumped.
I'll do some testing tomorrow and look at the data lines with and without an original 6 digit display in the CMBIP space.
This is probably a moot point because generally you're all going to be installing a full set of 5 new displays, so it's a non issue really. Although one person was talking about just putting the colourclassic display in the playfield in medusa......Hmmm......

Did a lot more testing on this. In my fathom, with any 2 old HV score displays in, the CCSDisplays work fine. As soon as I add a 3rd original display, they stop working. it's nothing to do with the 6 digit CMBIP display. I had that in along with a 7 digit display - worked fine, as soon as I added another 7 digit display - stopped working - removing any one of the 3 and it works again.

#150 1 year ago

If anyone wants to 3-d print a guide - here are board layouts in mm:

144 total board length (mm)
63 total board height (mm)
display rectangle is 29mm X 17.8 wide.
display rectangle start 10mm down from the top edge

6 digit display:
6 left margin
17.8 display width
5.2 gap
17.8 display width
5.2 gap
17.8 display width
5.2 gap
17.8 display width
5.2 gap
17.8 display width
5.2 gap
17.8 display width
5.2 right margin
144 TOTAL

7 digit display:
3 left margin
17.8 display width
2.2 gap
17.8 display width
2.2 gap
17.8 display width
2.2 gap
17.8 display width
2.2 gap
17.8 display width
2.2 gap
17.8 display width
2.2 gap
17.8 display width
3.2 right margin
144 TOTAL

#157 1 year ago
Quoted from RandyW:

When it gets designed... Would someone print and sell me, both the 6 and 7 digit alignment tools? I will happily pay as I don't have a 3d printer yet.

I asked a mate on uk forum pinballinfo.com. he’s designing the 7 digit one and printing a test for me.

#158 1 year ago
Quoted from jturner:

Are the base boards the same and it's just a matter of 7 vs 6 digits? Or is the base board different?

The base board (ie the base controller board) is exactly the same for 6 or 7 digit. Obviously the display board is different as one has 6 positions for displays and the other has 7 (which are closed together)

#161 1 year ago

I am no graphic artist, but had a go at creating some centaur number images:

I'm hoping the more artsy folk can help create even better image sets

0 (resized).jpg0 (resized).jpg1 (resized).jpg1 (resized).jpg2 (resized).jpg2 (resized).jpg3 (resized).jpg3 (resized).jpg
#166 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Good call. I don’t like locking ramps on connectors larger than 10 or 12 pins anyway. I’ll do what you did and save the locking headers for Williams boards.

I've not been able to find the non-locking headers in UK (or china) for a reasonable price, hence the locking ones. Most games have non locking connectors on from factory, so it's usually not an issue, and it makes a nice tight fit. If it's too tight, you can bend back the locking plastic arm a bit.

#171 1 year ago
Quoted from jturner:

Created a Trek font for my StarTrek

I will probably remove the blue background as it is a bit stark when it blinks
Alan -I wonder if its possible to have a background image or color? So if you have a font with a background color or image, the font blinks on the background vs to black?

Good work - I will add your creation to font library - as long as you are ok with that?

The blinking actually switches off all the displays - so there is no colour.

#172 1 year ago
Quoted from geeteoh:

I just got mine installed in my KISS machine. 6-digit versions. Huge set of fonts to choose from. Easy to set up. Look great on the machine.
I got the optional microSD cards. Everything was loaded with software and fonts. Just solder together and power up! Worked the first time. I did check the displays before affixing them. I used the 3D printed fixture and a tiny dab of clear Gorilla Glue. I've found this glue to be removable in the past. Used alcohol and a toothbrush to clean the rosen flux off the board after assembly.

Please can you post a pic of the type of gorilla glue you used as there are a few different gorilla glues.

#182 1 year ago
Quoted from jturner:Nice!

Happy to have them added!
Can each display have a different splash screen if we load them on the SD cards? I am thinking like STAR on P1 and TREK on P2

Yes - each display can have its own set of splash images.

Super exclusive ad from the Pinside Marketplace!
#183 1 year ago

A new release of software will be released soon (next day or 2):

1. Remove the flashing of the splash screen - it seems to annoy folk more than it's useful, especially because each display boots at a different speed, and so they flash out of synch. (This flashing was really only there as a test to be honest whilst I was testing the on/off display code).

2. The setup screen doesn't refresh and flash repeatedly.

3. BSOS support (still undergoing testing, but we now have it displaying scores - it wasn't displaying anything in V4.12)

4. On startup a "Sender" should send it's starting font to the receivers, but this was happening too quickly, and some receivers hadn't yet booted - it now happens at the right time. i.e. after the Sender has booted, displayed its splash screen, and has started to receive some display data from the game. All the other displays should have booted by this time.

I'm testing this as we speak.

#187 1 year ago
Quoted from Geocab:

AlanJ. Is there a way to display commas? Is it possible to have one set of fonts assigned to a digit placement, separate from the other digits? For instance, could we take a font and add a comma after the number and then use that set for the left most screen (on a 7 digit display), and 4th from the left, and then the other digits use the non-comma font?

The rendered fonts (the non jpeg fonts) numbered 21-60 do display commas.

I did think about having comma versions of the jpeg images, BUT - that would mean creating 20 jpeg files for each font set, rather than 10 (i.e. a version with an without a comma for each number 0-9). I felt it was too much work to do, especially given quite a lot of the existing jpegs don't lend themselves to having a comma in them anyway.

However, if people want it, lets agree the best way we could implement it. I'll add it to the enhancement list. Thank you for the suggestion.

EDIT: there is another way - I could more easily render a comma on top of the jpeg images, but I guess you'd need to choose the colour, x, y co-ordinates, maybe size, style etc.

#188 1 year ago
Quoted from geeteoh:

Way too much time tonight making KISS score fonts sets. I’m old school. I used Microsoft Image Composer v1.5 to create the jpg images to a compression to about 2k in size each. I have been using this software since 1997. They are not avail to everyone yet. Couple of tweaks needed.
The top bubble font fades from yellow to orange (top to bottom) with a red outline. The flame font (my favorite) is white and red. Looks a little green/blue in my photo. The bottom font is just yellow font with black outline on an orange background.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Fantastic work - I will happily add to the growing font library if you are happy to share them please?

This bring me onto another enhancement idea:
We currently have the ability to change fonts,(either random or cycle through all the fonts) but I guess because you have there 3 Kiss fonts, it would perhaps be useful to just change fonts between those 3? I'm part way through adding a "List Cycle" feature - where you could say, for example. Only cycle through fonts,1,3,10,12 etc.

#190 1 year ago
Quoted from Geocab:AlanJ. Is there a way to display commas? Is it possible to have one set of fonts assigned to a digit placement, separate from the other digits? For instance, could we take a font and add a comma after the number and then use that set for the left most screen (on a 7 digit display), and 4th from the left, and then the other digits use the non-comma font?

Quoted from AlanJ:

The rendered fonts (the non jpeg fonts) numbered 21-60 do display commas.
I did think about having comma versions of the jpeg images, BUT - that would mean creating 20 jpeg files for each font set, rather than 10 (i.e. a version with an without a comma for each number 0-9). I felt it was too much work to do, especially given quite a lot of the existing jpegs don't lend themselves to having a comma in them anyway.
However, if people want it, lets agree the best way we could implement it. I'll add it to the enhancement list. Thank you for the suggestion.
EDIT: there is another way - I could more easily render a comma on top of the jpeg images, but I guess you'd need to choose the colour, x, y co-ordinates, maybe size, style etc.

Having thought about this for a few more hours, this is perhaps the best thing we can do:
As you know an image font set is a set of 10 jpeg files named: n0.jpg to n9.jpg, where n is the font number 0-20.
I propose that to support commas, a font set optionally has an additional set of 10 jpeg files n0c.jpg to n9c.jpg holding the comma versions of each digit.
At boot time, the CCSD will scan the SD card and make a note of which font sets have comma files, and which don't. it will then use the comma version if it exists, when displaying a value in Digit 1 or Digit 4 positions (only for score displays, not for CMBIP display).

Anyone fancy creating a font set with and without commas please?

#192 1 year ago

Ok the new software is available. It's in the shared folder that I emailed to all customers.

Copy the "firmware.bin" file to your SD card. Remove any old "firmware.bak" file from the SD card. Your display will update the firmware next time it boots.

if you want to test out the new "comma" feature using font 0 - please copy the "0c.jpg" to "09c.jpg" files from the shared folder containing the SD card images to your SD card.

Release notes:

Release V4.15 19/1/2023
-----------------------------
A number of changes in this release, it incorporates the changes in the V4.14C test release earlier this week.

1. BSOS compatibility. Now works with BSOS operating system - however the scrolling feature whereby BSOS scrolls a 7 digit
score across a 6 digit screen may not work fully, there may be a glitch or two.
2. Remove the splash screen flash on start up - this doesn't look good especially when each display boots at a different rate,
so the flashes were not synchronised anyway. It looks better that the splash screen stays on until the display starts to get
data from the game itself.
3. The Setup screen no longer flickers (The right most display was flickering as it was constantly being cleared and redrawn).
Now it only redraws if it needs to.
4. The config json file stored on the SD card is now stored in a format that is easier to read. The File now holds some additional info that will be used in a future release.
5. Fixed an issue where the "Sender" display was sending it's initial font out too early, and receivers didn't have time to boot
and receive the message. The send now happens after the "sender" starts to receive data from the game. this is after the
splash screen has been displayed.
6. Added support for image font files that contain a comma. At startup the system looks on the SD card and if it finds comma
version of the image files, it will use these. Normal font files are 0.jpg, 1.jpeg ...9.jpg etc. the comma files are named
with a "c" appending the number - e.g. 0c.jpg -> 9c.jpg. I have made a rather crude set of comma files for the first font,
font 0. These files are available to download from the SD card images folder. (Edit: Fonts 0,1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10, 17,18,19 & 20 all now have comma versions)

LMK if any questions, feedback, issues.
0c (resized).jpg0c (resized).jpg1c (resized).jpg1c (resized).jpg2c (resized).jpg2c (resized).jpg3c (resized).jpg3c (resized).jpg4c (resized).jpg4c (resized).jpg

#193 1 year ago
Quoted from geeteoh:

I like that idea. Easy file numbering as well.

I've got it in the new release of the software, so feel free to create comma versions of your splash screens and try it out!

#195 1 year ago

Quick pic of the commas i added very quickly.
C518C0A4-0ADE-44C4-AFA2-E1803551752B (resized).jpegC518C0A4-0ADE-44C4-AFA2-E1803551752B (resized).jpeg

#196 1 year ago
Quoted from DougZ3:

AlanJ -
First of al,l this absolutely fascinates me. Miniature LCD displays, to emulate digits. What a wonderful idea and execution - obviously you have a talent!
I am sure you have thought of this already (maybe even executed), but it seems like it would be a fairly small step to sell digital "clock" kits using this technology. Nixie tube clocks, digital flip clocks, etc - all in one!- and they could flash a logo or message. I own a Nixie and a Digital Flip and would buy one of your "clock kits" in a minute.
Great stuff!!!!

Another idea i had was to keep the displays powered in a game, even when it’s turned off and then use them as a clock, weather forecaster, news ticker etc.

#198 1 year ago
Quoted from Geocab:

I haven't had a chance to assemble my kit yet (hopefully the weekend) but I have to say I find it really impressive how quickly you've implemented changes and improvements. Great work, man!

I'm retired, so got 18 hours a day to fill ! Plus I've got so much great feedback on these that's I just can't stop working on them.

The only frustration at the moment is waiting for more part and new boards to arrive.

#200 1 year ago

Oops, V4.15 has a bit of a bug with the commas, "V4.15a" fixes it.

#201 1 year ago

Here are samples of fonts and splash screens we currently have:

demo set 1 (resized).jpgdemo set 1 (resized).jpgdemo set 2 (resized).jpgdemo set 2 (resized).jpgdemo set 3 (resized).jpgdemo set 3 (resized).jpgdemo set 4 (resized).jpgdemo set 4 (resized).jpgdemo set 5 (resized).jpgdemo set 5 (resized).jpg
#203 1 year ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

If anyone wants to make cheetah and Big Game splash screens I’ll love you forever and like you for always.

I can do that - BUT: We've not tested in any stern games yet (I don't have any anymore)- should work, but until someone tries.........

I may need to change the firmware to handle stern games, I'm committed to do it, but will need someone with a stern game to test for me please.

#206 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

If you can handle different display refresh frequencies you should be fine. I'd assume you're triggering off what the actual displays do (the blanking/strobe/data lines).

Yes, picking up the BCD data when the latch triggers then the Digit when the Blanking drops. Std stuff, should be fine. I'm just being totally cautious.

Quoted from chuckwurt:

That’s what I bought these for. So I’ll report back when I have a chance to build them.

Thanks, pretty sure they will work, but as I haven't been able to test in a stern game, I'm being cautious.

#210 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

I’m currently building my first display and will test it in Quicksilver, Star Gazer and Freefall.

Let us know how it goes. message me if you have any issues.

#211 1 year ago
Quoted from RandyW:

This is where I am. I am hopeful that Alan will be selling these for ages to come, as I think I want them in every Bally I do and will own!

Hey i’m here for the long run.

#213 1 year ago

Started work on the next new feature:
“List cycle” mode

This allows you to create a list of the fonts you want the display to cycle around at a given time interval.

For example you could list fonts 12,5,23,60,19,18,0 and a 30 second interval. the display will switch through each font every 30s, starting at 12, then 5 then 23 and so on. once it reaches font 0 it will then go back to font 12 and repeat the list.

This feature will allow you choose only those fonts that you feel are the best for the game. eg fireball II you’d probably choose a list of red coloured fonts. Whereas on Elektra maybe chose white and blue coloured fonts.

I’m hoping this feature will be more useful than the current cycle options. (these will remain btw)

I could maybe also do a “Random List” too, which (no surprise) would choose one of the list fonts at random each time interval.

#215 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

I like this feature. I thought I would have to delete the fonts off the SD card that I didn't want to use.
Quick update on 1st display build: I didn't have much time to work on it today, but I was able to finish it and test it in Star Gazer. I forgot to short header pins 11 and 12 so no millions digit, but the splash screens worked correctly, scoring worked correctly and the HSTD before 3rd ball worked correctly. I'll give another update once I've corrected the millions digit and tested it in the other two games.

Good news. thank you.

Hang on for the new List feature. (i’m doing the “list random” too)

Also. don’t remove fonts off the SD if you’re using the cycle all or random options. If fonts are missing and the system switches to a missing font the screens won’t show anything. Until the new feature is released, a better method is to overwrite any font files you dont like and dont want to use with a font you do want to use.

#217 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

How does the system know what fonts are on the SD card? If I add a custom font, does it get cataloged such that if I delete it later it causes problems?
Update: Built two more displays today. The pin 11-12 short works as expected for the millions digit on classic Stern, so that's fixed. I had a problem with one of the FPC socket locks. I was trying to pop it open to install the display cable and it broke off. Fortunately, I was able to install the cable and lock it with the broken piece, but just wanted people to know these are delicate and care should be taken when unlocking them.

If the sd card is present the system expects there to be 21 sets of 10 font files ie 210 files numbered 0-209. So if you want to add a custom set, choose a set you don’t want to use. eg if you don’t like font 13. and want to replace it with a different font, the files are 130 to 139.jpg

The system will work without an sd card. but then only the rendered fonts 21-60 are available. these are the 7-segment and “dot” styles.

#218 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

If the sd card is present the system expects there to be 21 sets of 10 font files ie 210 files numbered 0-209. So if you want to add a custom set, choose a set you don’t want to use. eg if you don’t like font 13. and want to replace it with a different font, the files are 130 to 139.jpg
The system will work without an sd card. but then only the rendered fonts 21-60 are available. these are the 7-segment and “dot” styles.

You can create a simple .bat file to help rename font sets:

@echo off
echo Batch Script to copy font files
echo For font set "0" leave blank DO NOT enter 0 - it wont work.
echo
set /p input= Copy From Font no.
echo Input is: %input%
set /p output= Copy To Font no.
echo output is: %output%
pause
copy %input%0.jpg %output%0.jpg
copy %input%1.jpg %output%1.jpg
copy %input%2.jpg %output%2.jpg
copy %input%3.jpg %output%3.jpg
copy %input%4.jpg %output%4.jpg
copy %input%5.jpg %output%5.jpg
copy %input%6.jpg %output%6.jpg
copy %input%7.jpg %output%7.jpg
copy %input%8.jpg %output%8.jpg
copy %input%9.jpg %output%9.jpg

put the .bat file in the same folder as your image files and double click it - a window should open and prompt you to enter the from and to.

A copy of this batch file is called renamer.bat and is on the shared folder under software/utilities/copy image font sets/

#219 1 year ago

Create your own splash screens:
For 6 Digit Display games: You need 6 jpegs. splash1.jpg to splash6.jpg
For 7 Digit Display games: You need 7 jpegs. splash0.jpg to splash6.jpg

The best way to cut up an image into 6 or 7 parts:
For 6 digit displays, resize your image to 810 pixels wide X 240 pixels high
For 7 digit displays, resize your image to 945 pixels wide X 240 pixels high

Cut into 6 or 7 parts using this very handy tool:
https://www.imgonline.com.ua/eng/cut-photo-into-pieces.php

download the zip file, unzip and rename the 6 or 7 images to splash1.jpg, splash2.jpg, etc.

For the Credit/Match/Ball-in-play display, it's best to create a single image of size 135 X 240 pixels. Make copies of it as splash1.jpg to splash6.jpg.

#221 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

I finished assembling the displays and tested them in Star Gazer, Quicksilver and Xenon.
The 7-digit displays work perfectly. The credit/match display works perfectly in Xenon, but not in the classic Sterns. In the Sterns, the splash screen would come up, but would not clear, no matter if the display was set for 6-digits, 7-digits or credit/match.
I haven't tried the new firmware yet, I'm still using the original SD card content as shipped.

Ok, if you can upgrade the CMBIP display to the latest firmware please. V4.15a. We made a change to support BSOS o/s which possibly will also help with the way the stern game code works.

#223 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Upgraded the firmware, but unfortunately, no change to the credit/match behavior.

if you start a game does it do anything?
What would it normally display - no of credits? and maybe a zero for ball in play?

I have a software utility which will grab the score data coming to the display and saves it to sd card, if you could please install and run that. it’s called grabber, under the software/utilities folder on the shared drive. read me file gives instructions. it will create a file called logfile.txt on the sd card. if you can email that to me please.

#224 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Upgraded the firmware, but unfortunately, no change to the credit/match behavior.

ps did you remember to change the display back to “credit match” - it won’t work if set to “6 digit” or “7 digit”

#226 1 year ago

Thanks. it appears the stern game code puts out less data than the bally game code for the CMBIP display.

I’m going to amend our software so that It’s “less fussy” with respect to the data it receives from the game for the CMBIP, and hopefully this will solve the problem.

I need a couple of days to test the changes in a variety of my different Bally games, to ensure i’ve not broken anything, and then I can put out a trial release for the stern games.

#227 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Ran the grabber utility and sent you the logfile.

A new release of the firmware is now available, with a change that I hope will fix the stern display issue.

The new release also has the new "List Cycle" and "List Random" options in it, so you can now define a list of fonts and the display will cycle (or random pick) from that subset list of fonts.

V4.16c

#229 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

That's odd, I know they set up/send the data in a different way (especially on mpu200 games) but wouldn't it/shouldn't it be a hardware thing since you can only activate displays via the bcd data and the strobe?
Incidentally, it would be interesting if you had your decoder be able to take actual alpha characters as well, as BSOS could be modified to send ascii instead of bcd (as I'm sure mpu200 games could be modified as well for the same reason). This would also open up being able to make a display panel for system 11 games like Rolpa is working on: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wip-project-drop-in-animated-color-display-for-williams-an-games#post-6930828
BSOS is coming for system 11:

It's just the way I've been dealing with the data. The flash detect code is the culprit, I think!
--------------------------------------
On the BSOS point, yes - I could easily pick up a different interpretation of the data lines. An easy way to do this (without having to re-wire any game, is to use the digit lines, there are 6 or 7 of them, depending on 6 or 7 digit game. If we use 3 and encode the digit select in binary across just 3 lines, it frees up 3 or 4 lines to send the character data down, - add this to the existing 4 BCD lines and we have 7 or 8 character data lines, so 128 characters on the 6 digit games and 256 on the 7.

Another way is to send the data wirelessly - that opens up all possibilities.

#231 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

I've run into that 3 line bcd control scheme before although it was for a different reason.... prototyped some software for it but it never went into production so I'm not sure it even ever worked.
When you say flashing you mean blinking the display? Although the capability is in the software for mpu200 to have the 'player5' (credit) display blink, I don't think they ever did it intentionally. The player score display blinking when the score timeout timer is idle. Every score resets it to #$FF and when it hits zero it runs a flip mask routine for the currently up player, along with setting another timer (much shorter I forget the period) to flip it back. They just OR the mask in with the bcd digit in the display interrupt. The actual timers and display mask update are done in the zero cross.

yes. blinking the display.

regarding the bcd coded digit display. it works. i built some led score displays using it, so i could free up a wire to use as a 7th digit. this was so i had 7 digit scoring on the older six digit games.

#233 1 year ago

Eventually I got some parts through yesterday. Unfortunately they sent me a lot of wrong parts, and also some are dud.

Anyhow, I have got enough good parts to ship a few more kit.

I have opened a Pinside shop and listed them in there. This is all new to me, and I'm just hoping it all works.

#234 1 year ago

Figured I need a test rig so I can test stern game code. Found a stern mpu board and i’ve got it booting with a multi game rom that has stern and bally games selectable.

I’ve just bought a display wiring harness, so will get it all hooked up and properly powered up, then I can test.

4C0B5623-9752-483B-9EE8-E28BCB531A28 (resized).jpeg4C0B5623-9752-483B-9EE8-E28BCB531A28 (resized).jpegA3DCAEE9-41D7-45D5-A4F4-AF0B4E19ED58 (resized).jpegA3DCAEE9-41D7-45D5-A4F4-AF0B4E19ED58 (resized).jpeg
#236 1 year ago

Ok got my test rig working, I have several MPU boards, tried a bally with medusa roms and everything is working fine.
Removed the medusa roms and tried my multi rom board, works fine for the bally games, but not the stern ones.

Then I put in one of my two stern MUP200 boards, the first one has lightning roms in it - I tested using that and all is good.
I couldn't get it to work with the multi rom board though. (Think the existing roms are confusing it - and they are so old I don't want to break a leg removing any).

Next I tried my other Stern MPU200 board - This didn't boot with its roms in, so took them out - I can get it to boot with the multi rom board, but I cant get it to attract mode for any bally or stern rom code. - It boots - 7 flashes, but then nothing on any displays (even with LED displays in). Tried lots of bally and stern games different roms.

So where am I at:
Well - I have a test rig and I have a stern 7 digit game, Lightning, so at least that is something to test with. The CCSD's are all working okay for this.

dothedoo - I have emailed you.

#237 1 year ago

Had a brainwave, realised I have a Weebly board in my Fathom, so dug that out and hooked it up to my test rig. tested Fathom all ok, then switched the board to be Quicksilver - all worked 100%. Score displays and CMBIP all working ok.

#238 1 year ago

Help! - Can anyone help shed light on this problem please:

So, dothedoo has got the CCSD's working in his Star Gazer stern game following the latest code update to fix an issue with the CMBIP display not working.

When he moves the displays to either of his other stern games, Free fall or Quicksilver, none of the displays work - they boot and show the splash screen but get stuck there. Bill, kindly installed and ran my "grabber" routine - this reads the data from the game - 10,000 lines and stores it in a log file on the SD card.

when I look at any of these logfiles, I see that the "Digit" value is always zero - so that is the problem, we are not reading any digits values. However the other values for the BCD number, latch, and blanking are all being read correctly.

Here is an example of the data we are getting:

5428 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5429 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5430 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch BCD:8
5431 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:8
5432 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:3
5433 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5434 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:3
5435 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD
5436 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD
5437 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5438 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5439 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5440 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch BCD:0
5441 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:0
5442 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5443 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:0
5444 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5445 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5446 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5447 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch BCD:15
5448 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5449 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:0
5450 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5451 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5452 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5453 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch BCD
5454 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD
5455 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:2
5456 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5457 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5458 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5459 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5460 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:8
5461 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5462 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:13
5463 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5464 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:14
5465 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5466 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:11
5467 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5468 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:14
5469 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5470 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:11
5471 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5472 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:7
5473 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5474 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5475 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5476 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:7
5477 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5478 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:11
5479 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5480 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:4
5481 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5482 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:7
5483 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5484 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD
5485 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5486 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5487 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5488 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch BCD:4
5489 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:4
5490 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:0
5491 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD
5492 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5493 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:3
5494 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:3
5495 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5496 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5497 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5498 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch BCD:8
5499 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:8
5500 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:6
5501 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5502 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:7
5503 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:7
5504 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5505 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5506 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:8
5507 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5508 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5509 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch BCD:0
5510 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:0
5511 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:8
5512 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5513 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5514 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:14
5515 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5516 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:12
5517 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5518 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:12
5519 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5520 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:7
5521 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5522 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5523 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5524 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:7
5525 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5526 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:11
5527 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5528 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:4
5529 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5530 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:7
5531 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5532 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD
5533 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5534 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5535 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5536 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch BCD:8
5537 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:8
5538 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:3
5539 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5540 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD
5541 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD
5542 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5543 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:14
5544 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5545 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5546 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch BCD:0
5547 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:0
5548 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:14
5549 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5550 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:0
5551 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5552 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5553 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5554 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch BCD:15
5555 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5556 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:0
5557 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5558 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5559 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:8
5560 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5561 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:14
5562 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5563 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:12
5564 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5565 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:12
5566 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5567 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:7
5568 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5569 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5570 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5571 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:7
5572 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5573 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:11
5574 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5575 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:8
5576 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15

For comparison: Here is a log file from a working game (you can see the digit value is usually 1-6 only occasionally 0):
5158 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch BCD:15
5159 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch BCD:0
5160 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:0
5161 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5162 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5163 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:11
5164 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5165 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:11
5166 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5167 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:11
5168 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5169 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:11
5170 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5171 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:11
5172 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5173 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:7
5174 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5175 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD
5176 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5177 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5178 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5179 Digit:6 Blanking1 latch BCD:15
5180 Digit:6 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5181 Digit:6 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5182 Digit:6 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5183 Digit:6 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5184 Digit:6 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5185 Digit:6 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:2
5186 Digit:6 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:5
5187 Digit:6 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5188 Digit:4 Blanking1 latch BCD:15
5189 Digit:4 Blanking1 latch BCD:4
5190 Digit:4 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:4
5191 Digit:4 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:4
5192 Digit:4 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5193 Digit:4 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5194 Digit:4 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5195 Digit:4 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD
5196 Digit:4 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:3
5197 Digit:4 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5198 Digit:3 Blanking1 latch BCD:15
5199 Digit:3 Blanking1 latch BCD:0
5200 Digit:3 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:0
5201 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5202 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5203 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:11
5204 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5205 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:11
5206 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5207 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:11
5208 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5209 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:11
5210 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5211 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:11
5212 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5213 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:11
5214 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5215 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:11
5216 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5217 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:7
5218 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5219 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD
5220 Digit:3 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5221 Digit:3 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5222 Digit:3 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:0
5223 Digit:3 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:2
5224 Digit:3 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5225 Digit:5 Blanking1 latch BCD:15
5226 Digit:5 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5227 Digit:5 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5228 Digit:5 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD
5229 Digit:5 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5230 Digit:5 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5231 Digit:5 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5232 Digit:5 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD
5233 Digit:5 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5234 Digit:2 Blanking1 latch BCD:15
5235 Digit:2 Blanking1 latch BCD:0
5236 Digit:2 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:0
5237 Digit:2 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5238 Digit:2 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:14
5239 Digit:2 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5240 Digit:2 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5241 Digit:2 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:0
5242 Digit:2 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5243 Digit Blanking1 latch BCD:15
5244 Digit Blanking1 latch BCD:5
5245 Digit Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:5
5246 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:5
5247 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5248 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5249 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:7
5250 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5251 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:7
5252 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5253 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:7
5254 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5255 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:7
5256 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5257 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:7
5258 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5259 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:7
5260 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5261 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:11
5262 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5263 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:7
5264 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5265 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD
5266 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5267 Digit Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5268 Digit Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5269 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch BCD:15
5270 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch BCD:0
5271 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:0
5272 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5273 Digit:0 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5274 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5275 Digit:0 Blanking1 latch BCD:15
5276 Digit:6 Blanking1 latch BCD:15
5277 Digit:6 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5278 Digit:6 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5279 Digit:6 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0
5280 Digit:6 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:15
5281 Digit:6 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5282 Digit:6 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:2
5283 Digit:6 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:5
5284 Digit:6 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:15
5285 Digit:4 Blanking1 latch BCD:15
5286 Digit:4 Blanking1 latch BCD:4
5287 Digit:4 Blanking1 latch:0 BCD:4
5288 Digit:4 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:4
5289 Digit:4 Blanking0 latch:0 BCD:0

I just cannot understand why we are not getting the Digit value? I know the hardware is working as it's picking up the blanking signal just fine and this
is a bit off the same shift register we are using to get the 7 Digit lines. e.g. bits 1-7 are the digits and bit 8 is the blanking.

I am reading the shift register in a loop and getting the 8 inputs, if any of them change, I write a record to the log file. It all works fine in my test rig and in other games, including stern games - I've setup a test rig with a Weebly board, set to stern game settings for quicksilver (same as Bill is using).

This then took me to looking at the MPU schematics to see if I can spot and differences: The digit data comes off U11 PIA and the other data (BCD, latch, blanking) comes off U10 PIA. So that's appears to be a clue: i.e. we are getting all the U10 PIA data but not the U11 PIA data? I noticed that the U11 PIA is connected to the Display Interrupt Circuit. Is that a clue too?

I wondered if we have a slight voltage difference somewhere? Could that cause this?

Any suggestions gratefully received. Thanks, Alan

#240 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

Wiring/triggering is the same as Bally or the software wouldn't be cross compatible. I think if you're duplicating what the decoder chip on the display is doing it should be able to grab the info.
How long are you waiting before grabbing the digit info? Propagation delay should be really low here; when I was fooling around with making a wav trigger type sound board 12-13 years ago, I had a really hard time getting an arduino to grab the byte correctly and ended up using the same logic latches the sb-100 sound board used, and reading the data off the latch instead of the data bus directly.
I guess you are doing similar, populating the shift register directly and reading it from the microcontroller? I wonder if the shift register's logic threshold is affecting this if dothedoo 's levels happen to be too low to indicate logical 1? (I forget exactly the details, but don't different parts cmos vs. ttl have differing logic levels?)

Thanks that's helpful. it's gotta be something like that. I'll dig out the PIA specs and the Shift Reg specs and have a good look through.

#242 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

False alarm everyone. I was a dumbass and forgot leaving original displays in the game causes them to malfunction. I unplugged the remaining displays and the color displays work perfectly in both Quicksilver and Freefall.

Aha! That's fantastic news, thank you for the update.

#243 1 year ago

I received more stock today of boards, so a few more kits available to ship - see pinside shop.

#245 1 year ago

I've been asked to supply bare PCBs - so have created a Pinside shop listing for these too.

Price is £5 per pair of board to create 1 display, so £25 for a full game with 5 displays. Shipping tracked from UK is £13.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1464-retro-electro-designs/07803-colour-classic-score-display-pcb-s-full-set-for-5-displays

If anyone wants to order more than 1 set please message me and I will put up a listing as can save on shipping costs:
1 Set £13
2 Sets £16
3 Sets £22
4 Sets £25

1 week later
#246 1 year ago

I made up some better looking Credit/match display boards. With just the required 4 digits instead of 6.

5D19B163-DCC3-4CEB-9290-389273ABE60F (resized).jpeg5D19B163-DCC3-4CEB-9290-389273ABE60F (resized).jpegAB6D3EC3-D123-4EC1-A32A-9E5030A70751 (resized).jpegAB6D3EC3-D123-4EC1-A32A-9E5030A70751 (resized).jpegEEF09D3F-58A7-4278-8BEB-75176ABD45E2 (resized).jpegEEF09D3F-58A7-4278-8BEB-75176ABD45E2 (resized).jpeg
#248 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

Some of the games use the other digits (orbitor 1, dragonfist, possibly a couple others)

That's fine - I can ship either the 4 digit or 6 digit board (or 7 digit for Orbitor 1). I only made these as I was running out of 6 digit boards, and I thought they looked "cleaner"

#250 1 year ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

Holy crap that was a lot of soldering. Now I just have to wait for the remaining parts that are on the slow boat from china.
[quoted image]

Be careful with the Micro SD card reader boards, some batches don't work. I had to return a batch, all faulty. Test one before you solder in the other 35!

Also the ESP32s 30-pin dev boards - there are several variants, the cheaper versions use cheaper, lower spec CH340C or CH9102X rather than the CP2102 USB to UART chip. Having said that, that chip is only used in this application when initially flashing the firmware, so any of them will be fine. You may need to install drivers for them though.

#255 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

The setting button broke on one of my ESP32 boards. I ordered some buttons hoping it won't be too difficult to replace. Also ordered a spare board based on the name stamped on the metal housing. Hopefully, I ordered the right one.

the board is a 30 pin “esp32s doit devkit v1” board. as long as the 30 pins are the same it should work. there are various versions/clones. you will need to install the firmware on a board bought elsewhere. i can provide info on how to do this (there is a utility i provided on the shared drive).

#256 1 year ago
Quoted from hockeymutt:

any thought of doing a set for williams system 7?

I’ve not got any williams games anymore, so I cannot prototype. Happy to share my knowledge if someone wants to develop a set.

#257 1 year ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

I'm waiting on the sd card readers. Hopefully they aren't junk.

I only had one faulty batch, so Chances are they will be fine.

#258 1 year ago

Someone on this thread or in a DM suggested making these into a clock too, so i started on that, quick video:

#259 1 year ago

I’m offering 15% discount for the fully built items. for a limited time.

Discount code is BUILT-DISCOUNT15

#263 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Unfortunately, no. However, I've also thought about using 7-digit displays in a 6-digit game. Maybe Alan could code an option to fill blank digits with an image (like the splash screens). You could choose to have each blank digit be a different image or all the same. Or you could have all digits be blank except for the 7th.
My friend is in the process of restoring a Dolly Parton, which is a 6-digit game. I thought it would be cool to use the 7-digit displays and have the 7th digit be a picture of her face.

I could do that fairly easily.

I have already coded some test code which adds the 7th digit to 6 digit games, The easy bit is just lighting up the 7th digit when the current score gets to 1M and above.

The bigger problem to solve being the HSTD issue. That is a bit more complex. To truly do 6 to 7 digits, the display needs to intercept the HSTD from the game (lets say it's currently at 875,000) and replace it with a new 7 digit HSTD - lets say you score 1,200,000. - of course, in the game it thinks you have scored only 200,000, so the HSTD in the game remains at 875,000. So we would need to substitute every occurrence of 875,000 with our new 7 digit HSTD of 1,200,000. That value would need to be saved away on the score display itself, so it retains when the game is switched off. Also the 4 players score displays would need to communicate with each other to let each other know if the HSTD has been beaten in a game, and then they would all need to update with the same value. I havent coded any of this....yet!

#264 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

You mean third party MPU board? The current weebly MPU boards have the software and hardware to support upgrading 6-digit games to 7-digit. It uses Olivers method for the upgrade.
Not sure if Alan has tested it though. The millions digit is enabled when both the 100k and 10k digit enable signals are active.

I am not familiar with "Olivers method" - what is it?

#265 1 year ago
Quoted from sscharf:

I am interested in the fully-built solution. I have a Space Invaders, which is a 6-digit game, I would love to have one more digit. I have third party boards of some sort. Will this add a seventh digit?
Added: See avatar <<<<<<<<

No, not at the moment, but please see my comment above

#269 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

BTW, you would be aware that Ballys 7-digit games ran the display interrupt generator faster (~420Hz) compared to their 6-digit games (~320Hz). Of course over the years people replaced MPU boards with the wrong display interrupt generator frequencies in their games .
Does it affect your system and if yes, is it accounted for?

Yes i’m aware and it’s accounted for because i don’t need to get the data so often as the old displays needed to - they need constant refresh, whereas i only need to refresh the screens if a digit changes.

#272 1 year ago
Quoted from DougZ3:

I spoke too soon -
Just found this on amazon - unless this is you, then I guess its already been done...
amazon.com link »
If the link doesn'ttwork - search amazon for this:
GUAZI STORE Tube Clock,Imitation Nixie Tube Clock DIY Creative Clock, IPS LCD Screen,Transparent Crystal Base,Desktop Decoration, Support 01 02

Yes already been done, there are 100's of those around.

Instead I'm going to make something that merges the 2 - so a clock but also a pinball "splash screen" viewer. Main thread on UK pinball forum: https://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/coming-soon-compact-pinball-clock.55217/

#278 1 year ago
Quoted from MrBigg:

I'm building a homebrew with all altek boards in it from early bally solid state time frame.
These would look incredible in my machine.
Will they work with the altek boards? , and I'm running a separate dual 5v power supply system for my GI and special lighting good for 10 amps each.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Hi, yes Alltek boards are just fine. I've tested my displays with Bally, Stern, Alltek and nvram.weebly boards. All work fine.

Your homebrew looks amazing !!!

is is using a std game code from another game?

#279 1 year ago
Quoted from PA28steve:

This is what I came to ask about too.. These displays look awesome, but I have 4 Williams system6/7 games and no Bally! The biggest problem I see is that physically, the Williams boards are flat, so the form factor would have to change. I'd love to work with you on this and am confident I can put them together and do some troubleshooting (familiar w/ Arduino and other microcontrollers) but not confident in my circuit board design skills. I was just about to order a full set of the 7 digit displays just to take a look at the hardware and then work "backward" to see if I could figure out how to write the software to scan the Williams interface but if you're willing to share existing knowledge, I'm sure it'd go faster!

The Williams games are "easier" in some respect, because they have a central display controller which outputs to the 4 player and 1 CMBIP displays. So from my point of view, only need a single Arduino, but with more data signal to input and output.
On the downside, the Williams hardware changed more often than Bally's did. I'm not a Williams expert but I recall the displays changed somewhere between sys 6 and sys 7 - one has the CMBIP on the master board and the other took it off board? So at least two different hardware designs will be needed for that. I think the control signals to the two units look very similar, if not identical.
I guess the majority of games are sys 3-6? So that's probably the place to start?
The data looks very similar to bally - with BCD data and then digit strobes. The williams ones are not latched, the ballys are. That might make things easier or harder
Bally has 7 digit select lines and 4 BCD lines, a latch and a blanking line. Williams has 16 digit strobe lines, multiplexed to make 24 players score digits and 4 CMBIP digits, then it has 2 sets of 4 BCD lines & a single blanking line.

Your first job will be to hook up an arduino to those input lines and read the data, interpret it and display the scores back onto the arduino serial monitor. That's where I started with bally. You learn a lot by just looking at what the game is pumping out by way of data signals.

If you can get to that stage then can discuss board design options. EasyEDA is a great free board designer.

#282 1 year ago
Quoted from MrBigg:

Yes, that was originally going to be axspace invaders retheme, but the machine was beyond repair, and rotted out with mold, and water damage.
It's using all alltek cards with the space invaders coding, I just moved everything around to fit my needs. Other than sound problems, I'm about a month or so from turning it on for testing.

cool. I guess you could also go down the BSOS route in future and then you could have your own sounds.

#283 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Alan, have you thought about creating an option to display an image on blank digits?

I could perhaps add that feature. i guess it’s only going to apply to first 4/5 digits as a score shows “00” min

#285 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

I assumed he meant non-playing players' displays which are completely blank on some titles on non 4 player games.
That 00 sitting there on those early games when they aren't playing drove me crazy! Especially since the Bally OS had it built in to do it either way... show the 00 for non playing players, or don't.

aha yes i misunderstood. yes i’ve got that on the enhancement list. to show the splash screen

#289 1 year ago

Running out of stock, only 1 7 digit kit and 1 6 digit kit left.

#290 1 year ago

Working on the image enhancements........watch this space........

2 weeks later
#294 1 year ago

The clocks based on the same concept as the Colour Classic Score display are now available,
see thread over on pinballinfo.com - UK forum: https://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/compact-pinball-clock.55217/page-4

#296 1 year ago
Quoted from tmuir:

Any idea when you will be getting more kits in stock?
I've been following this thread with interest, but initially thought I wouldn't need them, but in the last week 4 of my 5 displays have had individual segments start failing, so it looks like I will be replacing them after all.

Hi, do you need 6 or 7 digit?

#298 1 year ago
Quoted from tmuir:

6 Digit for Bally Star Trek

Hi yes I have stock - pinside shop updated.

#301 1 year ago
Quoted from SLK_Groups:

much deleted info....

sorry for this late start, but i recently saw your post in a FB group that i can no longer find... i am very interested in the design side fo things... would love to get more info on the tech side of there ... thanx, keith

What do you need to know?

#302 1 year ago

Hey folks,

the spin off project - Colour Classic Clock has been a big sucess here in UK, I now have a few kits left, which I am offering here on pinside in my shop:

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1464-retro-electro-designs/08177-colour-classic-clock

Also a kit that includes a brilliant acrylic case made by one of my pinball buddies (Colywobbles) here in UK:
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1464-retro-electro-designs/08178-colour-classic-clock-kit-with-acrylic-case

Quick video of prototype here:

The case build video is here:

(From my friend Colywobbles).

1 week later
#303 1 year ago

Offer price with a £10 reduction on kits for a limited time period. See the shop. Select the discounted item.

1 week later
#314 1 year ago

Hey folks, life just got whole lot easier!!!!

I have had some of the base controller boards fully made up, with all the components and headers pre-soldered in the factory! :

IMG_5989 (resized).jpegIMG_5989 (resized).jpeg

This makes the self-build very easy now - just the display board to construct, and literally plug it into the controller board.

The only slight "downside" is the use of SMD rather than though-hole components. I still have some of the through hole boards, so can supply either type of kit, if that's an issue for you.

#316 12 months ago

To celebrate the Forthcoming coronation of King Charles III here in UK, Use this coupon code for 10% discount on Score display kits and fully built.
Valid until End of May 2023

18JA-9G69-Q4EG-DZVN

3 months later
#317 8 months ago

Last set of kits now in my pinside shop:

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1464-retro-electro-designs

Once these are gone, that's it folks! Get em whilst you can!

2 months later
#319 5 months ago

6X8 Switch matrix simulator board now available :
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1464-retro-electro-designs/09702-bally-stern-ss-switch-matrix-tester-board

IMG_7324 (resized).JPGIMG_7324 (resized).JPGIMG_7325 (resized).JPGIMG_7325 (resized).JPGIMG_7326 (resized).JPGIMG_7326 (resized).JPG
1 month later
#320 4 months ago

For anyone, wanting cheaper, single colour LED 7-segmeent replacements, instead of the full colour - I now have red, amber and blue in my pinside shop.
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1464-retro-electro-designs

2 weeks later
#321 3 months ago

Happy New Year Folks. Discounted prices in my pinside shop on these displays for the New Year.

1 month later
#323 57 days ago

Last year I converted the design of the Color Classic Score display into a clock. It worked well, but the 7 separate screens probably wasn't the best idea for displaying images!

So......... I created a new version:
IMG_7982 (resized).JPGIMG_7982 (resized).JPG
IMG_7988 (resized).JPGIMG_7988 (resized).JPG
IMG_6173 (resized).JPEGIMG_6173 (resized).JPEG

more details here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1464-retro-electro-designs/10424-compact-pinball-art-clock

IMG_6175 (resized).JPEGIMG_6175 (resized).JPEGIMG_6179 (resized).JPEGIMG_6179 (resized).JPEGIMG_7983 (resized).JPGIMG_7983 (resized).JPGIMG_7984 (resized).JPGIMG_7984 (resized).JPG
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