(Topic ID: 317133)

Bally/Stern SS's - Introducing "ColourClassic" Score Displays

By AlanJ

2 years ago


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  • 330 posts
  • 53 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by pindel
  • Topic is favorited by 66 Pinsiders

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There are 330 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 7.
#251 1 year ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

Holy crap that was a lot of soldering. Now I just have to wait for the remaining parts that are on the slow boat from china.
[quoted image]

Damn!

That is a crazy amount of work!

Hope you fingers are still alive!

#252 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

Be careful with the Micro SD card reader boards, some batches don't work. I had to return a batch, all faulty. Test one before you solder in the other 35!
Also the ESP32s 30-pin dev boards - there are several variants, the cheaper versions use cheaper, lower spec CH340C or CH9102X rather than the CP2102 USB to UART chip. Having said that, that chip is only used in this application when initially flashing the firmware, so any of them will be fine. You may need to install drivers for them though.

I'm waiting on the sd card readers. Hopefully they aren't junk.

#253 1 year ago

The setting button broke on one of my ESP32 boards. I ordered some buttons hoping it won't be too difficult to replace. Also ordered a spare board based on the name stamped on the metal housing. Hopefully, I ordered the right one.

#254 1 year ago

any thought of doing a set for williams system 7?

#255 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

The setting button broke on one of my ESP32 boards. I ordered some buttons hoping it won't be too difficult to replace. Also ordered a spare board based on the name stamped on the metal housing. Hopefully, I ordered the right one.

the board is a 30 pin “esp32s doit devkit v1” board. as long as the 30 pins are the same it should work. there are various versions/clones. you will need to install the firmware on a board bought elsewhere. i can provide info on how to do this (there is a utility i provided on the shared drive).

#256 1 year ago
Quoted from hockeymutt:

any thought of doing a set for williams system 7?

I’ve not got any williams games anymore, so I cannot prototype. Happy to share my knowledge if someone wants to develop a set.

#257 1 year ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

I'm waiting on the sd card readers. Hopefully they aren't junk.

I only had one faulty batch, so Chances are they will be fine.

#258 1 year ago

Someone on this thread or in a DM suggested making these into a clock too, so i started on that, quick video:

#259 1 year ago

I’m offering 15% discount for the fully built items. for a limited time.

Discount code is BUILT-DISCOUNT15

#260 1 year ago

I am interested in the fully-built solution. I have a Space Invaders, which is a 6-digit game, I would love to have one more digit. I have third party boards of some sort. Will this add a seventh digit?

Added: See avatar <<<<<<<<

#261 1 year ago
Quoted from sscharf:

I am interested in the fully-built solution. I have a Space Invaders, which is a 6-digit game, I would love to have one more digit. I have third party boards of some sort. Will this add a seventh digit?
Added: See avatar <<<<<<<<

Unfortunately, no. However, I've also thought about using 7-digit displays in a 6-digit game. Maybe Alan could code an option to fill blank digits with an image (like the splash screens). You could choose to have each blank digit be a different image or all the same. Or you could have all digits be blank except for the 7th.

My friend is in the process of restoring a Dolly Parton, which is a 6-digit game. I thought it would be cool to use the 7-digit displays and have the 7th digit be a picture of her face.

#262 1 year ago
Quoted from sscharf:

I have third party boards of some sort.

You mean third party MPU board? The current weebly MPU boards have the software and hardware to support upgrading 6-digit games to 7-digit. It uses Olivers method for the upgrade.
Not sure if Alan has tested it though. The millions digit is enabled when both the 100k and 10k digit enable signals are active.

#263 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Unfortunately, no. However, I've also thought about using 7-digit displays in a 6-digit game. Maybe Alan could code an option to fill blank digits with an image (like the splash screens). You could choose to have each blank digit be a different image or all the same. Or you could have all digits be blank except for the 7th.
My friend is in the process of restoring a Dolly Parton, which is a 6-digit game. I thought it would be cool to use the 7-digit displays and have the 7th digit be a picture of her face.

I could do that fairly easily.

I have already coded some test code which adds the 7th digit to 6 digit games, The easy bit is just lighting up the 7th digit when the current score gets to 1M and above.

The bigger problem to solve being the HSTD issue. That is a bit more complex. To truly do 6 to 7 digits, the display needs to intercept the HSTD from the game (lets say it's currently at 875,000) and replace it with a new 7 digit HSTD - lets say you score 1,200,000. - of course, in the game it thinks you have scored only 200,000, so the HSTD in the game remains at 875,000. So we would need to substitute every occurrence of 875,000 with our new 7 digit HSTD of 1,200,000. That value would need to be saved away on the score display itself, so it retains when the game is switched off. Also the 4 players score displays would need to communicate with each other to let each other know if the HSTD has been beaten in a game, and then they would all need to update with the same value. I havent coded any of this....yet!

#264 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

You mean third party MPU board? The current weebly MPU boards have the software and hardware to support upgrading 6-digit games to 7-digit. It uses Olivers method for the upgrade.
Not sure if Alan has tested it though. The millions digit is enabled when both the 100k and 10k digit enable signals are active.

I am not familiar with "Olivers method" - what is it?

#265 1 year ago
Quoted from sscharf:

I am interested in the fully-built solution. I have a Space Invaders, which is a 6-digit game, I would love to have one more digit. I have third party boards of some sort. Will this add a seventh digit?
Added: See avatar <<<<<<<<

No, not at the moment, but please see my comment above

#266 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

I am not familiar with "Olivers method" - what is it?

http://www.pinball4you.ch/okaegi/pro_d7.html

#267 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

I am not familiar with "Olivers method" - what is it?

See @slochar's link.
Actually you might not need to worry about it since the changes are done with hardware mods before reaching the displays.

#268 1 year ago

BTW, you would be aware that Ballys 7-digit games ran the display interrupt generator faster (~420Hz) compared to their 6-digit games (~320Hz). Of course over the years people replaced MPU boards with the wrong display interrupt generator frequencies in their games.

Does it affect your system and if yes, is it accounted for?

#269 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

BTW, you would be aware that Ballys 7-digit games ran the display interrupt generator faster (~420Hz) compared to their 6-digit games (~320Hz). Of course over the years people replaced MPU boards with the wrong display interrupt generator frequencies in their games .
Does it affect your system and if yes, is it accounted for?

Yes i’m aware and it’s accounted for because i don’t need to get the data so often as the old displays needed to - they need constant refresh, whereas i only need to refresh the screens if a digit changes.

#270 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

Someone on this thread or in a DM suggested making these into a clock too, so i started on that, quick video:

That was me

And I love that - but the real execution would be to sell the single board clock on ETSY or something like that for $100+. You could make a good profit on that and you could sell a bunch before they get ripped off and cloned overseas

Someone else (or you) could probably make some different cases as add ons...

No reason you couldn't make some easy profit on a branch of your hobby support! Nixie Tube clocks are expensive by the time you add the tubes, so a great alternative!

#271 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

Someone on this thread or in a DM suggested making these into a clock too, so i started on that, quick video:

I spoke too soon -
Just found this on amazon - unless this is you, then I guess its already been done...

https://www.amazon.com/GUAZI-STORE-Transparent-Decoration-01/dp/B0B53FTZ5J/ref=d_pd_day0_vft_high_sccl_2_6/140-9047533-9630720

If the link doesn'ttwork - search amazon for this:
GUAZI STORE Tube Clock,Imitation Nixie Tube Clock DIY Creative Clock, IPS LCD Screen,Transparent Crystal Base,Desktop Decoration, Support 01 02

#272 1 year ago
Quoted from DougZ3:

I spoke too soon -
Just found this on amazon - unless this is you, then I guess its already been done...
amazon.com link »
If the link doesn'ttwork - search amazon for this:
GUAZI STORE Tube Clock,Imitation Nixie Tube Clock DIY Creative Clock, IPS LCD Screen,Transparent Crystal Base,Desktop Decoration, Support 01 02

Yes already been done, there are 100's of those around.

Instead I'm going to make something that merges the 2 - so a clock but also a pinball "splash screen" viewer. Main thread on UK pinball forum: https://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/coming-soon-compact-pinball-clock.55217/

#273 1 year ago

Officially joined the club!

A big thank you to Alan for helping me through all the technical issues I ran into!

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#274 1 year ago

this is very cool

#275 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

I’ve not got any williams games anymore, so I cannot prototype. Happy to share my knowledge if someone wants to develop a set.

This is what I came to ask about too.. These displays look awesome, but I have 4 Williams system6/7 games and no Bally! The biggest problem I see is that physically, the williams boards are flat, so the form factor would have to change. I'd love to work with you on this and am confident I can put them together and do some troubleshooting (familiar w/ Arduino and other microcontrollers) but not confident in my circuit board design skills. I was just about to order a full set of the 7 digit displays just to take a look at the hardware and then work "backward" to see if I could figure out how to write the software to scan the williams interface but if you're willing to share existing knowledge, I'm sure it'd go faster!

#276 1 year ago

I'm building a homebrew with all altek boards in it from early bally solid state time frame.
These would look incredible in my machine.
Will they work with the altek boards? , and I'm running a separate dual 5v power supply system for my GI and special lighting good for 10 amps each.

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#277 1 year ago

Super cool.

FYI...these displays have also been incorporated into a "Nixie Clock" available on Amazon.
The same display personalization can be done.
One example: https://tinyurl.com/44y2zr9v
--
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http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#278 1 year ago
Quoted from MrBigg:

I'm building a homebrew with all altek boards in it from early bally solid state time frame.
These would look incredible in my machine.
Will they work with the altek boards? , and I'm running a separate dual 5v power supply system for my GI and special lighting good for 10 amps each.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Hi, yes Alltek boards are just fine. I've tested my displays with Bally, Stern, Alltek and nvram.weebly boards. All work fine.

Your homebrew looks amazing !!!

is is using a std game code from another game?

#279 1 year ago
Quoted from PA28steve:

This is what I came to ask about too.. These displays look awesome, but I have 4 Williams system6/7 games and no Bally! The biggest problem I see is that physically, the Williams boards are flat, so the form factor would have to change. I'd love to work with you on this and am confident I can put them together and do some troubleshooting (familiar w/ Arduino and other microcontrollers) but not confident in my circuit board design skills. I was just about to order a full set of the 7 digit displays just to take a look at the hardware and then work "backward" to see if I could figure out how to write the software to scan the Williams interface but if you're willing to share existing knowledge, I'm sure it'd go faster!

The Williams games are "easier" in some respect, because they have a central display controller which outputs to the 4 player and 1 CMBIP displays. So from my point of view, only need a single Arduino, but with more data signal to input and output.
On the downside, the Williams hardware changed more often than Bally's did. I'm not a Williams expert but I recall the displays changed somewhere between sys 6 and sys 7 - one has the CMBIP on the master board and the other took it off board? So at least two different hardware designs will be needed for that. I think the control signals to the two units look very similar, if not identical.
I guess the majority of games are sys 3-6? So that's probably the place to start?
The data looks very similar to bally - with BCD data and then digit strobes. The williams ones are not latched, the ballys are. That might make things easier or harder
Bally has 7 digit select lines and 4 BCD lines, a latch and a blanking line. Williams has 16 digit strobe lines, multiplexed to make 24 players score digits and 4 CMBIP digits, then it has 2 sets of 4 BCD lines & a single blanking line.

Your first job will be to hook up an arduino to those input lines and read the data, interpret it and display the scores back onto the arduino serial monitor. That's where I started with bally. You learn a lot by just looking at what the game is pumping out by way of data signals.

If you can get to that stage then can discuss board design options. EasyEDA is a great free board designer.

#280 1 year ago

Alan, have you thought about creating an option to display an image on blank digits?

#281 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

Hi, yes Alltek boards are just fine. I've tested my displays with Bally, Stern, Alltek and nvram.weebly boards. All work fine.
Your homebrew looks amazing !!!
is is using a std game code from another game?

Yes, that was originally going to be axspace invaders retheme, but the machine was beyond repair, and rotted out with mold, and water damage.
It's using all alltek cards with the space invaders coding, I just moved everything around to fit my needs. Other than sound problems, I'm about a month or so from turning it on for testing.

#282 1 year ago
Quoted from MrBigg:

Yes, that was originally going to be axspace invaders retheme, but the machine was beyond repair, and rotted out with mold, and water damage.
It's using all alltek cards with the space invaders coding, I just moved everything around to fit my needs. Other than sound problems, I'm about a month or so from turning it on for testing.

cool. I guess you could also go down the BSOS route in future and then you could have your own sounds.

#283 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Alan, have you thought about creating an option to display an image on blank digits?

I could perhaps add that feature. i guess it’s only going to apply to first 4/5 digits as a score shows “00” min

#284 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

I could perhaps add that feature. i guess it’s only going to apply to first 4/5 digits as a score shows “00” min

I assumed he meant non-playing players' displays which are completely blank on some titles on non 4 player games.

That 00 sitting there on those early games when they aren't playing drove me crazy! Especially since the Bally OS had it built in to do it either way... show the 00 for non playing players, or don't.

#285 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

I assumed he meant non-playing players' displays which are completely blank on some titles on non 4 player games.
That 00 sitting there on those early games when they aren't playing drove me crazy! Especially since the Bally OS had it built in to do it either way... show the 00 for non playing players, or don't.

aha yes i misunderstood. yes i’ve got that on the enhancement list. to show the splash screen

#286 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

cool. I guess you could also go down the BSOS route in future and then you could have your own sounds.

I'm working on a wav trigger robertsounds board now, just trying to make switch mounts to attach them to existing devices. I'll get it soon, just more work. Looking forward to seeing what these scoring will look like in my BDC machine.

#287 1 year ago

Williams display hardware is identical from sys 3 to 6. It changed at system 6a/7 to allow 7 digit scoring. But the hardware used for 6 digit scoring was all the same as was the later hardware 7 digit scoring. So it's basically just 2 systems.

Quoted from AlanJ:

The Williams games are "easier" in some respect, because they have a central display controller which outputs to the 4 player and 1 CMBIP displays. So from my point of view, only need a single Arduino, but with more data signal to input and output.
On the downside, the Williams hardware changed more often than Bally's did. I'm not a Williams expert but I recall the displays changed somewhere between sys 6 and sys 7 - one has the CMBIP on the master board and the other took it off board? So at least two different hardware designs will be needed for that. I think the control signals to the two units look very similar, if not identical.
I guess the majority of games are sys 3-6? So that's probably the place to start?
The data looks very similar to bally - with BCD data and then digit strobes. The williams ones are not latched, the ballys are. That might make things easier or harder
Bally has 7 digit select lines and 4 BCD lines, a latch and a blanking line. Williams has 16 digit strobe lines, multiplexed to make 24 players score digits and 4 CMBIP digits, then it has 2 sets of 4 BCD lines & a single blanking line.
Your first job will be to hook up an arduino to those input lines and read the data, interpret it and display the scores back onto the arduino serial monitor. That's where I started with bally. You learn a lot by just looking at what the game is pumping out by way of data signals.
If you can get to that stage then can discuss board design options. EasyEDA is a great free board designer.

#288 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

aha yes i misunderstood. yes i’ve got that on the enhancement list. to show the splash screen

Actually, you understood me correctly - add a feature that allows you to put an image in place of blank digits. But both features would be good.

#289 1 year ago

Running out of stock, only 1 7 digit kit and 1 6 digit kit left.

#290 1 year ago

Working on the image enhancements........watch this space........

14
#291 1 year ago

Just finished up my xenon, love these so much!

20230308_233618 (resized).jpg20230308_233618 (resized).jpg
#292 1 year ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

Just finished up my xenon, love these so much!
[quoted image]

Wow, that looks really, really cool!!

#293 1 year ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

Just finished up my xenon, love these so much!
[quoted image]

You nailed it with that font choice, looks great.

1 week later
#294 1 year ago

The clocks based on the same concept as the Colour Classic Score display are now available,
see thread over on pinballinfo.com - UK forum: https://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/compact-pinball-clock.55217/page-4

#295 1 year ago

Any idea when you will be getting more kits in stock?
I've been following this thread with interest, but initially thought I wouldn't need them, but in the last week 4 of my 5 displays have had individual segments start failing, so it looks like I will be replacing them after all.

#296 1 year ago
Quoted from tmuir:

Any idea when you will be getting more kits in stock?
I've been following this thread with interest, but initially thought I wouldn't need them, but in the last week 4 of my 5 displays have had individual segments start failing, so it looks like I will be replacing them after all.

Hi, do you need 6 or 7 digit?

#297 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

Hi, do you need 6 or 7 digit?

6 Digit for Bally Star Trek

#298 1 year ago
Quoted from tmuir:

6 Digit for Bally Star Trek

Hi yes I have stock - pinside shop updated.

#299 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

Hi yes I have stock - pinside shop updated.

Order placed,
Thanks
Something else to send me cross eyed soldering up, but will enjoy doing.

#300 1 year ago

much deleted info....

Quoted from AlanJ:

Prototype boards:
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

deleted pics...

Uses off the shelf components - ESP32s development board, SD card reader board and 3 IC's. Plus the 6 or 7 Colour screen score display units. The production board will end up with more components on it - caps and resistors.

sorry for this late start, but i recently saw your post in a FB group that i can no longer find... i am very interested in the design side fo things... would love to get more info on the tech side of there ... thanx, keith

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