(Topic ID: 317133)

Bally/Stern SS's - Introducing "ColourClassic" Score Displays

By AlanJ

1 year ago


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  • 323 posts
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  • Latest reply 30 days ago by AlanJ
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There are 323 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 7.
#151 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

Did a lot more testing on this. In my fathom, with any 2 old HV score displays in, the CCSDisplays work fine. As soon as I add a 3rd original display, they stop working. it's nothing to do with the 6 digit CMBIP display. I had that in along with a 7 digit display - worked fine, as soon as I added another 7 digit display - stopped working - removing any one of the 3 and it works again.

Yeah that's what I found - though in my case this was true with both the pinscore boards and the original display.

#152 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

That's really cool John, now we need someone to do a 7 digit version too.

Are the base boards the same and it's just a matter of 7 vs 6 digits? Or is the base board different?

#153 1 year ago

When it gets designed... Would someone print and sell me, both the 6 and 7 digit alignment tools? I will happily pay as I don't have a 3d printer yet.

#154 1 year ago
Quoted from jturner:

Lots of soldering - 750 is the right temp for 60/40 lead solder - be sure to use a fume fan!
I created a quick 3D printed guide to aid in aligning the displays. You can find it here:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Ql0t2pOalzC1roXklp2KkJCo9PTJiCjC?usp=sharing[quoted image]

man!

I wish I knew more about 3D printing...

That's a great ideal!!!

#155 1 year ago

Me three...

#156 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

Couple of little construction tips:
Use two pairs of Pliers to pull out the Keying pin on the 0.156" headers. Use one to hold the plastic and the other to pull on the pin:
[quoted image]
I've found electricians insulation tape the best to use as a temporary holder for the displays. (I don't like to stick them down permanently until I have tested).
It's enough just to tape the top of the display, so I can see most of the screen for testing.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

heat up the pin...it will slide out like butter!

#157 1 year ago
Quoted from RandyW:

When it gets designed... Would someone print and sell me, both the 6 and 7 digit alignment tools? I will happily pay as I don't have a 3d printer yet.

I asked a mate on uk forum pinballinfo.com. he’s designing the 7 digit one and printing a test for me.

#158 1 year ago
Quoted from jturner:

Are the base boards the same and it's just a matter of 7 vs 6 digits? Or is the base board different?

The base board (ie the base controller board) is exactly the same for 6 or 7 digit. Obviously the display board is different as one has 6 positions for displays and the other has 7 (which are closed together)

#159 1 year ago

success!

first one assembled working good on just game scoring.

will go into menu and check out more features tomorrow

the numbers are LARGE!

And are very bright!

Thanks AlanJ for a really cool product!

01267558-A798-46C2-BBCB-2194A961F21A (resized).jpeg01267558-A798-46C2-BBCB-2194A961F21A (resized).jpegC67F8E4C-214A-41DC-910D-E962D2731E41 (resized).jpegC67F8E4C-214A-41DC-910D-E962D2731E41 (resized).jpegCB5F7225-C83E-4891-8E37-21690EC66F9E (resized).jpegCB5F7225-C83E-4891-8E37-21690EC66F9E (resized).jpeg
#160 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

That's really cool John, now we need someone to do a 7 digit version too.

I just added a 7 digit one based on your measurements - I don't have one to test with but if someone wants to try it and send me feedback that would be great!

7 digit alignment tool (resized).png7 digit alignment tool (resized).png
#161 1 year ago

I am no graphic artist, but had a go at creating some centaur number images:

I'm hoping the more artsy folk can help create even better image sets

0 (resized).jpg0 (resized).jpg1 (resized).jpg1 (resized).jpg2 (resized).jpg2 (resized).jpg3 (resized).jpg3 (resized).jpg
#162 1 year ago

I’d make the 3 more obvious. I can see that being hard to read.

#163 1 year ago

The ramps (and offset) on my 20-pin machine harness housings to each display is backward from instructions. Verify yours before soldering them or go with non-locking headers as I did (on my next 4 displays). I have a KISS machine.

31E2B141-005D-4812-828F-B1D1C21C5DEF (resized).jpeg31E2B141-005D-4812-828F-B1D1C21C5DEF (resized).jpegDC983974-B156-411D-A237-50674584B586 (resized).jpegDC983974-B156-411D-A237-50674584B586 (resized).jpeg
#164 1 year ago

Tracking has my package in my town. I should have these tomorrow! Woohoo!

#165 1 year ago
Quoted from geeteoh:

The ramps (and offset) on my 20-pin machine harness housings to each display is backward from instructions. Verify yours before soldering them or go with non-locking headers as I did (on my next 4 displays). I have a KISS machine.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Good call. I don’t like locking ramps on connectors larger than 10 or 12 pins anyway. I’ll do what you did and save the locking headers for Williams boards.

#166 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Good call. I don’t like locking ramps on connectors larger than 10 or 12 pins anyway. I’ll do what you did and save the locking headers for Williams boards.

I've not been able to find the non-locking headers in UK (or china) for a reasonable price, hence the locking ones. Most games have non locking connectors on from factory, so it's usually not an issue, and it makes a nice tight fit. If it's too tight, you can bend back the locking plastic arm a bit.

#167 1 year ago
Quoted from Geocab:

Tracking has my package in my town. I should have these tomorrow! Woohoo!

Now officially expected tomorrow. The package arrived in my city. Went two cities down, and then came back to my city. Kinda weird way their system works, but as long as things arrive in one piece, I'm happy.

#168 1 year ago

I just got mine installed in my KISS machine. 6-digit versions. Huge set of fonts to choose from. Easy to set up. Look great on the machine.

I got the optional microSD cards. Everything was loaded with software and fonts. Just solder together and power up! Worked the first time. I did check the displays before affixing them. I used the 3D printed fixture and a tiny dab of clear Gorilla Glue. I've found this glue to be removable in the past. Used alcohol and a toothbrush to clean the rosen flux off the board after assembly.

#169 1 year ago
Quoted from geeteoh:

The ramps (and offset) on my 20-pin machine harness housings to each display is backward from instructions. Verify yours before soldering them or go with non-locking headers as I did (on my next 4 displays). I have a KISS machine.
[quoted image][quoted image]

I did the same thing..very difficult to remove

#170 1 year ago

Created a Trek font for my StarTrek - A few pointers on the creation - if you use GIMP make Sure you uncheck the JPEG options on export - thumbnail etc - see attached screenshot.

Here is the font if anyone is interested

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1JA1G_Rf4J91OQCcX3JTCv-r5xke-cqtx?usp=sharing

I will probably remove the blue background as it is a bit stark when it blinks

Alan -I wonder if its possible to have a background image or color? So if you have a font with a background color or image, the font blinks on the background vs to black?

Also I found that moving the display close to the backglass vs pushed all the way in looks best. Might think about getting a foam mask like the ones on pinscore or 3d printing a mask

GIMP Settings (resized).pngGIMP Settings (resized).pngIMG_2595 (resized).jpegIMG_2595 (resized).jpeg
#171 1 year ago
Quoted from jturner:

Created a Trek font for my StarTrek

I will probably remove the blue background as it is a bit stark when it blinks
Alan -I wonder if its possible to have a background image or color? So if you have a font with a background color or image, the font blinks on the background vs to black?

Good work - I will add your creation to font library - as long as you are ok with that?

The blinking actually switches off all the displays - so there is no colour.

#172 1 year ago
Quoted from geeteoh:

I just got mine installed in my KISS machine. 6-digit versions. Huge set of fonts to choose from. Easy to set up. Look great on the machine.
I got the optional microSD cards. Everything was loaded with software and fonts. Just solder together and power up! Worked the first time. I did check the displays before affixing them. I used the 3D printed fixture and a tiny dab of clear Gorilla Glue. I've found this glue to be removable in the past. Used alcohol and a toothbrush to clean the rosen flux off the board after assembly.

Please can you post a pic of the type of gorilla glue you used as there are a few different gorilla glues.

#173 1 year ago

Glad I stumbled on this thread. Awesome work! PM coming your way soon!

#174 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

Please can you post a pic of the type of gorilla glue you used as there are a few different gorilla glues.

Tiny dab. The diameter of the glue nozzle.

1991764A-E718-4156-ADE7-BA7F4D11F049 (resized).jpeg1991764A-E718-4156-ADE7-BA7F4D11F049 (resized).jpeg
#175 1 year ago

I affixed some tape on the ends of the 3D printed fixture to hold it to the board. Glued the displays. Then put a piece of foam over the top and a light weight for about 6 hours. 7C6A7F7A-5A10-4713-8F3A-308FB56B13EF (resized).jpeg7C6A7F7A-5A10-4713-8F3A-308FB56B13EF (resized).jpeg

2AC2F18B-82B8-4AC1-A920-693DDBCE8CFA (resized).jpeg2AC2F18B-82B8-4AC1-A920-693DDBCE8CFA (resized).jpeg

#176 1 year ago

Nice!

Quoted from AlanJ:

Good work - I will add your creation to font library - as long as you are ok with that?
The blinking actually switches off all the displays - so there is no colour.

Happy to have them added!

Can each display have a different splash screen if we load them on the SD cards? I am thinking like STAR on P1 and TREK on P2

#177 1 year ago

Just finished up the display mask - not sure if I like it yet - though I think it dresses it up a bit in bright light.

6 digit is in my mask folder - let me know what you think they are 10mm deep now - I might do them 5 deep instead

You can see the difference from my earlier post photo

IMG_2597 (resized).jpegIMG_2597 (resized).jpegIMG_2598 (resized).jpegIMG_2598 (resized).jpegIMG_2599 (resized).jpegIMG_2599 (resized).jpeg
#178 1 year ago
Quoted from geeteoh:

Tiny dab. The diameter of the glue nozzle.
[quoted image]

How'd you use the glue again? In place of double sided tape for the top of the screen?

#179 1 year ago
Quoted from geeteoh:

I affixed some tape on the ends of the 3D printed fixture to hold it to the board. Glued the displays. Then put a piece of foam over the top and a light weight for about 6 hours. [quoted image]
[quoted image]

do you have pics or video of these in KISS? man w/ fire in the background it would be bad ass.

#180 1 year ago
Quoted from Geocab:

How'd you use the glue again? In place of double sided tape for the top of the screen?

1. Affix the fixture to the board. Easy to do as the displays are not touching the board.
2. Just a small drop on the printed circuit board in the middle of each display rectangle that is printed on the board. It replaces the double sided tape.
3. Push each display into the fixture and glue.
4. Weight down a bit for 6 hours or so.

#181 1 year ago
Quoted from geeteoh:

Just a small drop on the printed circuit board in the middle of each display rectangle that is printed on the board. It replaces the double sided tape.

#182 1 year ago
Quoted from jturner:Nice!

Happy to have them added!
Can each display have a different splash screen if we load them on the SD cards? I am thinking like STAR on P1 and TREK on P2

Yes - each display can have its own set of splash images.

#183 1 year ago

A new release of software will be released soon (next day or 2):

1. Remove the flashing of the splash screen - it seems to annoy folk more than it's useful, especially because each display boots at a different speed, and so they flash out of synch. (This flashing was really only there as a test to be honest whilst I was testing the on/off display code).

2. The setup screen doesn't refresh and flash repeatedly.

3. BSOS support (still undergoing testing, but we now have it displaying scores - it wasn't displaying anything in V4.12)

4. On startup a "Sender" should send it's starting font to the receivers, but this was happening too quickly, and some receivers hadn't yet booted - it now happens at the right time. i.e. after the Sender has booted, displayed its splash screen, and has started to receive some display data from the game. All the other displays should have booted by this time.

I'm testing this as we speak.

#184 1 year ago

Way too much time tonight making KISS score fonts sets. I’m old school. I used Microsoft Image Composer v1.5 to create the jpg images to a compression to about 2k in size each. I have been using this software since 1997. They are not avail to everyone yet. Couple of tweaks needed.

The top bubble font fades from yellow to orange (top to bottom) with a red outline. The flame font (my favorite) is white and red. Looks a little green/blue in my photo. The bottom font is just yellow font with black outline on an orange background.

08708924-4C11-42CF-83BE-0AC72899B2F7 (resized).jpeg08708924-4C11-42CF-83BE-0AC72899B2F7 (resized).jpegD3E5FACA-482E-4EC1-849D-906D62BA5362 (resized).jpegD3E5FACA-482E-4EC1-849D-906D62BA5362 (resized).jpegD987C4C1-E7CD-4E7B-845F-582B0F02D38A (resized).jpegD987C4C1-E7CD-4E7B-845F-582B0F02D38A (resized).jpeg

#185 1 year ago

Received my kit!DSC08207 (resized).JPGDSC08207 (resized).JPG

#186 1 year ago

@AlanJ. Is there a way to display commas? Is it possible to have one set of fonts assigned to a digit placement, separate from the other digits? For instance, could we take a font and add a comma after the number and then use that set for the left most screen (on a 7 digit display), and 4th from the left, and then the other digits use the non-comma font?

#187 1 year ago
Quoted from Geocab:

AlanJ. Is there a way to display commas? Is it possible to have one set of fonts assigned to a digit placement, separate from the other digits? For instance, could we take a font and add a comma after the number and then use that set for the left most screen (on a 7 digit display), and 4th from the left, and then the other digits use the non-comma font?

The rendered fonts (the non jpeg fonts) numbered 21-60 do display commas.

I did think about having comma versions of the jpeg images, BUT - that would mean creating 20 jpeg files for each font set, rather than 10 (i.e. a version with an without a comma for each number 0-9). I felt it was too much work to do, especially given quite a lot of the existing jpegs don't lend themselves to having a comma in them anyway.

However, if people want it, lets agree the best way we could implement it. I'll add it to the enhancement list. Thank you for the suggestion.

EDIT: there is another way - I could more easily render a comma on top of the jpeg images, but I guess you'd need to choose the colour, x, y co-ordinates, maybe size, style etc.

#188 1 year ago
Quoted from geeteoh:

Way too much time tonight making KISS score fonts sets. I’m old school. I used Microsoft Image Composer v1.5 to create the jpg images to a compression to about 2k in size each. I have been using this software since 1997. They are not avail to everyone yet. Couple of tweaks needed.
The top bubble font fades from yellow to orange (top to bottom) with a red outline. The flame font (my favorite) is white and red. Looks a little green/blue in my photo. The bottom font is just yellow font with black outline on an orange background.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Fantastic work - I will happily add to the growing font library if you are happy to share them please?

This bring me onto another enhancement idea:
We currently have the ability to change fonts,(either random or cycle through all the fonts) but I guess because you have there 3 Kiss fonts, it would perhaps be useful to just change fonts between those 3? I'm part way through adding a "List Cycle" feature - where you could say, for example. Only cycle through fonts,1,3,10,12 etc.

#189 1 year ago
Quoted from jturner:

Just finished up the display mask - not sure if I like it yet - though I think it dresses it up a bit in bright light.
6 digit is in my mask folder - let me know what you think they are 10mm deep now - I might do them 5 deep instead
You can see the difference from my earlier post photo
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I'm actually looking into getting a laser cutter and making these out of Eva foam. If you have a picture of the 5mm and the 10mm taken at an angle so I can see how well they each block the light I'll order some supplies.

#190 1 year ago
Quoted from Geocab:AlanJ. Is there a way to display commas? Is it possible to have one set of fonts assigned to a digit placement, separate from the other digits? For instance, could we take a font and add a comma after the number and then use that set for the left most screen (on a 7 digit display), and 4th from the left, and then the other digits use the non-comma font?

Quoted from AlanJ:

The rendered fonts (the non jpeg fonts) numbered 21-60 do display commas.
I did think about having comma versions of the jpeg images, BUT - that would mean creating 20 jpeg files for each font set, rather than 10 (i.e. a version with an without a comma for each number 0-9). I felt it was too much work to do, especially given quite a lot of the existing jpegs don't lend themselves to having a comma in them anyway.
However, if people want it, lets agree the best way we could implement it. I'll add it to the enhancement list. Thank you for the suggestion.
EDIT: there is another way - I could more easily render a comma on top of the jpeg images, but I guess you'd need to choose the colour, x, y co-ordinates, maybe size, style etc.

Having thought about this for a few more hours, this is perhaps the best thing we can do:
As you know an image font set is a set of 10 jpeg files named: n0.jpg to n9.jpg, where n is the font number 0-20.
I propose that to support commas, a font set optionally has an additional set of 10 jpeg files n0c.jpg to n9c.jpg holding the comma versions of each digit.
At boot time, the CCSD will scan the SD card and make a note of which font sets have comma files, and which don't. it will then use the comma version if it exists, when displaying a value in Digit 1 or Digit 4 positions (only for score displays, not for CMBIP display).

Anyone fancy creating a font set with and without commas please?

#191 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

Having thought about this for a few more hours, this is perhaps the best thing we can do:
As you know an image font set is a set of 10 jpeg files named: n0.jpg to n9.jpg, where n is the font number 0-20.
I propose that to support commas, a font set optionally has an additional set of 10 jpeg files n0c.jpg to n9c.jpg holding the comma versions of each digit.
At boot time, the CCSD will scan the SD card and make a note of which font sets have comma files, and which don't. it will then use the comma version if it exists, when displaying a value in Digit 1 or Digit 4 positions (only for score displays, not for CMBIP display).
Anyone fancy creating a font set with and without commas please?

I like that idea. Easy file numbering as well.

#192 1 year ago

Ok the new software is available. It's in the shared folder that I emailed to all customers.

Copy the "firmware.bin" file to your SD card. Remove any old "firmware.bak" file from the SD card. Your display will update the firmware next time it boots.

if you want to test out the new "comma" feature using font 0 - please copy the "0c.jpg" to "09c.jpg" files from the shared folder containing the SD card images to your SD card.

Release notes:

Release V4.15 19/1/2023
-----------------------------
A number of changes in this release, it incorporates the changes in the V4.14C test release earlier this week.

1. BSOS compatibility. Now works with BSOS operating system - however the scrolling feature whereby BSOS scrolls a 7 digit
score across a 6 digit screen may not work fully, there may be a glitch or two.
2. Remove the splash screen flash on start up - this doesn't look good especially when each display boots at a different rate,
so the flashes were not synchronised anyway. It looks better that the splash screen stays on until the display starts to get
data from the game itself.
3. The Setup screen no longer flickers (The right most display was flickering as it was constantly being cleared and redrawn).
Now it only redraws if it needs to.
4. The config json file stored on the SD card is now stored in a format that is easier to read. The File now holds some additional info that will be used in a future release.
5. Fixed an issue where the "Sender" display was sending it's initial font out too early, and receivers didn't have time to boot
and receive the message. The send now happens after the "sender" starts to receive data from the game. this is after the
splash screen has been displayed.
6. Added support for image font files that contain a comma. At startup the system looks on the SD card and if it finds comma
version of the image files, it will use these. Normal font files are 0.jpg, 1.jpeg ...9.jpg etc. the comma files are named
with a "c" appending the number - e.g. 0c.jpg -> 9c.jpg. I have made a rather crude set of comma files for the first font,
font 0. These files are available to download from the SD card images folder. (Edit: Fonts 0,1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10, 17,18,19 & 20 all now have comma versions)

LMK if any questions, feedback, issues.
0c (resized).jpg0c (resized).jpg1c (resized).jpg1c (resized).jpg2c (resized).jpg2c (resized).jpg3c (resized).jpg3c (resized).jpg4c (resized).jpg4c (resized).jpg

#193 1 year ago
Quoted from geeteoh:

I like that idea. Easy file numbering as well.

I've got it in the new release of the software, so feel free to create comma versions of your splash screens and try it out!

#194 1 year ago

AlanJ -
First of al,l this absolutely fascinates me. Miniature LCD displays, to emulate digits. What a wonderful idea and execution - obviously you have a talent!

I am sure you have thought of this already (maybe even executed), but it seems like it would be a fairly small step to sell digital "clock" kits using this technology. Nixie tube clocks, digital flip clocks, etc - all in one!- and they could flash a logo or message. I own a Nixie and a Digital Flip and would buy one of your "clock kits" in a minute.

Great stuff!!!!

#195 1 year ago

Quick pic of the commas i added very quickly.
C518C0A4-0ADE-44C4-AFA2-E1803551752B (resized).jpegC518C0A4-0ADE-44C4-AFA2-E1803551752B (resized).jpeg

#196 1 year ago
Quoted from DougZ3:

AlanJ -
First of al,l this absolutely fascinates me. Miniature LCD displays, to emulate digits. What a wonderful idea and execution - obviously you have a talent!
I am sure you have thought of this already (maybe even executed), but it seems like it would be a fairly small step to sell digital "clock" kits using this technology. Nixie tube clocks, digital flip clocks, etc - all in one!- and they could flash a logo or message. I own a Nixie and a Digital Flip and would buy one of your "clock kits" in a minute.
Great stuff!!!!

Another idea i had was to keep the displays powered in a game, even when it’s turned off and then use them as a clock, weather forecaster, news ticker etc.

#197 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

Ok the new software is available. It's in the shared folder that I emailed to all customers.
Copy the "firmware.bin" file to your SD card. Remove any old "firmware.bak" file from the SD card. Your display will update the firmware next time it boots.
if you want to test out the new "comma" feature using font 0 - please copy the "0c.jpg" to "09c.jpg" files from the shared folder containing the SD card images to your SD card.
Release notes:
Release V4.15 19/1/2023
-----------------------------
A number of changes in this release, it incorporates the changes in the V4.14C test release earlier this week.
1. BSOS compatibility. Now works with BSOS operating system - however the scrolling feature whereby BSOS scrolls a 7 digit
score across a 6 digit screen may not work fully, there may be a glitch or two.
2. Remove the splash screen flash on start up - this doesn't look good especially when each display boots at a different rate,
so the flashes were not synchronised anyway. It looks better that the splash screen stays on until the display starts to get
data from the game itself.
3. The Setup screen no longer flickers (The right most display was flickering as it was constantly being cleared and redrawn).
Now it only redraws if it needs to.
4. The config json file stored on the SD card is now stored in a format that is easier to read. The File now holds some additional info that will be used in a future release.
5. Fixed an issue where the "Sender" display was sending it's initial font out too early, and receivers didn't have time to boot
and receive the message. The send now happens after the "sender" starts to receive data from the game. this is after the
splash screen has been displayed.
6. Added support for image font files that contain a comma. At startup the system looks on the SD card and if it finds comma
version of the image files, it will use these. Normal font files are 0.jpg, 1.jpeg ...9.jpg etc. the comma files are named
with a "c" appending the number - e.g. 0c.jpg -> 9c.jpg. I have made a rather crude set of comma files for the first font,
font 0. These files are available to download from the SD card images folder. (Edit: Fonts 0,1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10, 17,18,19 & 20 all now have comma versions)
LMK if any questions, feedback, issues.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I haven't had a chance to assemble my kit yet (hopefully the weekend) but I have to say I find it really impressive how quickly you've implemented changes and improvements. Great work, man!

#198 1 year ago
Quoted from Geocab:

I haven't had a chance to assemble my kit yet (hopefully the weekend) but I have to say I find it really impressive how quickly you've implemented changes and improvements. Great work, man!

I'm retired, so got 18 hours a day to fill ! Plus I've got so much great feedback on these that's I just can't stop working on them.

The only frustration at the moment is waiting for more part and new boards to arrive.

#199 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

I'm retired, so got 18 hours a day to fill ! Plus I've got so much great feedback on these that's I just can't stop working on them.
The only frustration at the moment is waiting for more part and new boards to arrive.

Yes, I'm really looking forward to getting these in every early bally machine I own. These are exactly the displays I was looking for my collection. I really think it's what's the early machines have been missing all along to really customize them while not having to physically change the machine.

#200 1 year ago

Oops, V4.15 has a bit of a bug with the commas, "V4.15a" fixes it.

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