(Topic ID: 174170)

Bally Star Trek Software Rewrite - The Journey

By applejuice

7 years ago


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  • 61 posts
  • 22 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by packie1
  • Topic is favorited by 55 Pinsiders

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There are 61 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
11
#1 7 years ago

I'm starting work on a new software rewrite using the boardset that i developed for early Bally & Stern games (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mypinballs-custom-pinball-controller-for-ballystern-games). I will be posting my progress on the rewrite here as i build up the new game rules, new sounds/speech etc for my Bally Star Trek.

The idea is to recreate the original rules with new sounds, speech and music and then add some moe features such as multiball, jackpots, combos, hurry ups, modes etc I'll be using some re-created sound effects from the squawk & talk sound board era as well as some movie stuff.

First things first is to find a game to use as the basis for the development. Here is the game i've located:

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Next up is to get a new brain for it, and i'm in th process of making the first boards for batch 2 of my controller so i'll be using one of those for this to.

#2 7 years ago

Game was picked up today and is now heading over to mypinballs HQ

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#4 7 years ago

OK, so the donor game arrived last night around 6pm

Pics of me unpacking it. Typical that it starts raining as soon as a pin gets delivered on a pallet! Quickly moved in side and all fine

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#5 7 years ago

Today, i've fitted a new line filter, varistor and power cable & plug. Just not worth messing about with these old parts. Replace and upgrade the 240vac stuff for peace of mind. All parts used are the ones i sell and supply to everyone. They are universal line filters. Interestingly they aligned with the cabinet holes from the original even though the new part was originally chosen for WPC/Stern games.

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#6 7 years ago

And i replaced the Ground braid strap that runs from the cabinet to the backbox

Old

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New

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#7 7 years ago

And i cleaned out the backbox, cabinet and fitted all new pcb stand offs and screws

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#8 7 years ago

This is great!!

#9 7 years ago

Me too

#10 7 years ago

Yay! Best of luck on your conversion

#11 7 years ago

Cleaned the insert panel today along with the display loom and fitted new 7 segments displays for scoring

Before

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After

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#12 7 years ago

Super cool, Following!

#13 7 years ago

Taking a look a the transformer and rectifier assembly. I have a few units spare and decided to use this one from my old HV game.

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I wanted to upgrade the power outputs on it and may possibly use a 48vdc switched supply for coils later, but am starting with this to see how good i can get it.

I found a new rectifier board i got from some where awhile back and had a look at it. Seems pretty good with Leds for voltages but whoever made it didn't upgrade the rectifiers, so its still as original. First job is to remove those pidly ones and get some big 35A 200v era in there. I could have bought a board from great plains with this already done but i do like the leds for voltages on it.

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Also bought some new connectors to re-pin all the plugs

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#14 7 years ago

Love the idea of this project.

#15 7 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

The idea is to recreate the original rules with new sounds, speech and music

Cool project ! I always wanted to add the sounds, speech, and, eh, "music" from the Sega arcade game ... they'd fit the era of the game perfectly. Samples from the game are available via older versions of MAME (newer versions emulate the sound/speech boards). You might want to check that out .

#16 7 years ago

I honestly think this sort of thing is the future of pinball.

If you can add a heap of features to a reasonably priced game, for a reasonable deal, who wouldn't want to buy one?

I have a Star Trek with a new CPR playfield, I would certainly look at upgrading the MPU. I can use the standard MPU in another machine as well, so that's another winner.

All the best with the project ... and may it be the first of many!

rd

#17 7 years ago

I really hope this goes well and there's a certain plug-and-play ability with it. I'd love to be able to do this. Are you going to build in a feature to go back to the original sounds as an option?

Subscribed.

#18 7 years ago

Let me know how I can help!

I'd love to install your software upgrades on my Star_Trek: Mirror Universe project ... and on my restored Bally Star trek.

Looks like your in the restore phase right now; let us know when you are ready to talk about how your going to accomplish the software/audio upgrades.

#19 7 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Let me know how I can help!
I'd love to install your software upgrades on my Star_Trek: Mirror Universe project ... and on my restored Bally Star trek.
Looks like your in the restore phase right now; let us know when you are ready to talk about how your going to accomplish the software/audio upgrades.

The software and audio rewrite will be accomplished by using my replacement controller boards - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mypinballs-custom-pinball-controller-for-ballystern-games, as mentioned earlier.

#20 7 years ago

Rectifier and transformer update. I completed the upgrades i was on about before, double checked my working and powered on

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All good. Nice to see those test leds light up. I also have an idea to add a filter cap to the coil voltage for smoothing, like on WPC and Stern Sam games. New Williams spec flipper mechs should be here soon to.

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#21 7 years ago

Re-pinned the power connector and also the playfield power connector.

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No control board in yet, but i wanted to test the playfield and cabinet GI power anyway.

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#22 7 years ago

Busy couple of days moving the project forward

Serviced and fitted a power driver board (for +5v and +190v use only)

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Fitted my new controller board and driver board set. New rev3 sound controller still to fit on controller board

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First power on and test of displays along with lamp tests (after changing to led bulbs)

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Replacements of all old standup targets with New WMS spec ones. Also fixed some more playfield GI issues

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Replacement of the old flipper assemblies with WPC spec one and Stern PWM coils

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How its looking now:

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https://www.instagram.com/p/BN2Ui3OAPsm/?taken-by=mypinballs

Now to write some new code and get a basic game going Star Trek style. Also need to test out my new PWM flipper code

#23 7 years ago

What's the advantage of PWM flippers? They just seem like a bad idea to me...

#24 7 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

What's the advantage of PWM flippers? They just seem like a bad idea to me...

Lots of reasons. They can be installed using the existing wiring and only take 1 mosfet control per flipper. Stronger, more positive control , 'snappy' feel in conjunction with the WPC flipper brackets and mechanism. No need for EOS switches, fine adjustments possible on power with the software etc.

I like to try out new ideas and upgrades for these old games whilst i'm redoing all the rules and control. I also have some Williams Orange WPC flipper coils that i may try to, but these would need EOS switches if doing a system11 approach, or extra wiring and another mosfet per flipper if doing it WPC style.

#25 7 years ago

Couple of days spent hashing out some game code based on the original rules. Have something that compiles now, so can start to test it out. Also waiting for some more LEDs to arrive along with some lamp holder faults to sort out and need to get some new stern low power flipper switches installed to

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#26 7 years ago

In terms of LEDs i'm using this super bright type for feature lamps. My driver board can control up to 96 individual feature lamps.

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They must be installed with LEDs. Regular incandescents are not compatible. Also special NG versions (non ghosting) are not needed here. Just the regular type is fine.

And i'm using regular incandescent #44 bulbs for the GI.

#27 7 years ago

I will be using a modified version of my WPC-95 GI blackout board - see here http://mypinballs.co.uk/electronics/store.jsp to enable controlled GI on Star Trek. This means i'll be able to switch it off for certain features and during attract sequences etc. I'll be getting to this after i get the game code working.

#28 7 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

Lots of reasons. They can be installed using the existing wiring and only take 1 mosfet control per flipper. Stronger, more positive control , 'snappy' feel in conjunction with the WPC flipper brackets and mechanism. No need for EOS switches, fine adjustments possible on power with the software etc.
I like to try out new ideas and upgrades for these old games whilst i'm redoing all the rules and control. I also have some Williams Orange WPC flipper coils that i may try to, but these would need EOS switches if doing a system11 approach, or extra wiring and another mosfet per flipper if doing it WPC style.

Doesn't pwm still need an eos for when the ball hits it? Or have the newest Sterns gotten rid of that? It seems that the pwm causes a lot of vibrating noises when the cool is held up that we'd gotten rid of since the EM days, and they get weaker a lot faster once they heat up

Quoted from applejuice:

They must be installed with LEDs. Regular incandescents are not compatible

Due to current draw, or something else?

#29 7 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

In terms of LEDs i'm using this super bright type for feature lamps

LEDs are always personal preference, but try the Comet 2 SMD for colours and the Comet twin led (as used in AC/DC) for whites.

That's what I use in my machines and it makes the inserts pop nicely without burning out your retinas like the Super Brights do.

Just my 1.5c.

rd

#30 7 years ago

This is AWESOME! I have a Bally Star Trek with all the cosmetic parts to restore completely. I really hope all of this will be available somehow to add to my game. So cool!

#31 7 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

This is AWESOME! I have a Bally Star Trek with all the cosmetic parts to restore completely. I really hope all of this will be available somehow to add to my game. So cool!

Yes kits will be available That was always the plan as with my other software rewrites.

#32 7 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

Yes kits will be available That was always the plan as with my other software rewrites.

That sir, is awesome! What is your general timeframe? I may need to bump Star Trek to the front of my restore queue.

Also, do you have more information about switching to the Williams flippers? Would this work for games like Fathom and Centaur as well? I have about 10 early Bally games. I love them, but I've never liked the feel of their flippers.

1 week later
#33 7 years ago

Any update?

#34 7 years ago

Lots to update, though having a break now over Christmas after a seriously hectic time getting all the 80b cpu boards out to customers along with other boards.

Will update after christmas properly once back in the office. (5th Jan 2017)

There are some pics and videos on my instagram account - find me using @mypinballs as that's the place i usually post to first.

For example, a video showing the updated speed and power of the pops now running under new control

https://www.instagram.com/p/BONWicxApJd/?taken-by=mypinballs

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 2017 everyone

#35 7 years ago

Holy moly..... Maybe too strong. Following on instagram. Enjoy your holiday.

#36 7 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

For example, a video showing the updated speed and power of the pops now running under new control

I. love. it.

#37 7 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

Lots to update, though having a break now over Christmas after a seriously hectic time getting all the 80b cpu boards out to customers along with other boards.
Will update after christmas properly once back in the office. (5th Jan 2017)
There are some pics and videos on my instagram account - find me using @mypinballs as that's the place i usually post to first.
For example, a video showing the updated speed and power of the pops now running under new control
https://www.instagram.com/p/BONWicxApJd/?taken-by=mypinballs
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 2017 everyone

So is this just due to faster response time? You didn't up the voltage? I've never understood why all the manufacturers switched to software control when it seems like it could never be as fast as Gottlieb's approach...

#38 7 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

I've never understood why all the manufacturers switched to software control when it seems like it could never be as fast as Gottlieb's approach...

Had to be due to cost.

#39 7 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Had to be due to cost.

I doubt that. Based on my experience over the many years, the most common part that would fail on a Flipper Assembly (Besides worn or broken links) were the EOS switches. With dual coils where full power is at the mercy of the mechanical EOS switch, you had catastrophic failures (melt down of the coil) or dead flipper (no longer could earn money).

By first going to CPU controlled dual coils (WPC Fliptronic) your EOS didn't have to pass the high current like before and was therefore less likely to fail. If it did, software could take over and keep the game operating and also protect the coil from burning up.

Computer control also eliminated the need for a high current flipper switch at the cabinet button and alternates (including opto-interupters) could be used instead. Which also improved reliability.

And yes, an EOS is still an important part of a PWM flipper system to refire the coil when the flipper bat gets hit with a high velocity ball.

While many things were and still are cost driven, in the boom of pinball sales, improvements were often made due to complaints coming from operators in the field who experienced reasons for down time first hand. It was the goal to make a game that would be VERY reliable for the first few years while not breaking the bank on BOM.

PWM flipper Buzz was never a concern for the Manufacturers since the games were being built to be operated in noisy arcades, bowling centers and bars.

#40 7 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

I doubt that. Based on my experience over the many years, the most common part that would fail on a Flipper Assembly (Besides worn or broken links) were the EOS switches. With dual coils where full power is at the mercy of the mechanical EOS switch, you had catastrophic failures (melt down of the coil) or dead flipper (no longer could earn money).
By first going to CPU controlled dual coils (WPC Fliptronic) your EOS didn't have to pass the high current like before and was therefore less likely to fail. If it did, software could take over and keep the game operating and also protect the coil from burning up.
Computer control also eliminated the need for a high current flipper switch at the cabinet button and alternates (including opto-interupters) could be used instead. Which also improved reliability.
And yes, an EOS is still an important part of a PWM flipper system to refire the coil when the flipper bat gets hit with a high velocity ball.
While many things were and still are cost driven, in the boom of pinball sales, improvements were often made due to complaints coming from operators in the field who experienced reasons for down time first hand. It was the goal to make a game that would be VERY reliable for the first few years while not breaking the bank on BOM.
PWM flipper Buzz was never a concern for the Manufacturers since the games were being built to be operated in noisy arcades, bowling centers and bars.

That explains the software flippers, but not software pops...

#41 7 years ago

This thread is really exciting me! I will up grade my machine as soon as this is available. I recently picked up a new machine in little need of repair, and have abandon a restore on a much rougher machine that I own.

So I am selling my CPR Bally Star Trek playfield:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-star-trek-crp-playfield-new-w-nacelle-lights-740

3 weeks later
#42 7 years ago

So is there going to be an option to also play the game with the original rules? Update bump!

1 month later
#43 7 years ago

Any news on the progress? The anticipation is killing me.

3 weeks later
#44 6 years ago

Well, the first 3 months of this year flew by didn't they! Super busy here with everything i'm making.

A few updates though to mention. I have the original rules pretty much coded in and am now testing through them. Some bugs to sort out. I can play a basic game and the stern pwm flippers work and are nice and strong as do all the other mechs and ejects. I haven't added the sound side of things yet and i have some lamp holder issues to sort out under the playfield. Also am adjusting the display lamp controller to use the 7th digit for scoring and high scores along with working on some updates for flashing the displays slightly more effectively that are to be rolled across to scotts (@thenotrashcougar) total annihilation score displays to.

Also thoughts on adding a spinner? RHS lane or somewhere else?

Quick video of the attract mode lamps here:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSO2pXblNDU/?taken-by=mypinballs

#45 6 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

Well, the first 3 months of this year flew by didn't they! Super busy here with everything i'm making.
A few updates though to mention. I have the original rules pretty much coded in and am now testing through them. Some bugs to sort out. I can play a basic game and the stern pwm flippers work and are nice and strong as do all the other mechs and ejects. I haven't added the sound side of things yet and i have some lamp holder issues to sort out under the playfield. Also am adjusting the display lamp controller to use the 7th digit for scoring and high scores along with working on some updates for flashing the displays slightly more effectively that are to be rolled across to scotts (thenotrashcougar) total annihilation score displays to.
Also thoughts on adding a spinner? RHS lane or somewhere else?
Quick video of the attract mode lamps here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BSO2pXblNDU/?taken-by=mypinballs

Glad to see this project is still moving forward. I think adding a spinner is a good idea. Does the playfield have to be modified to do this or can a spinner mech reside completely on the top side of the playfield?

The problem with this game, and one of the challenges going forward is that the playfield is pretty limited in shots and scoring options. Something like Strikes and Spares, although still a very simple layout, has so many more targets and obvious potential new rule directions. Because Star Trek has limited targets and shots, I think you have your work cut out for you. To this end, adding additional scoring options like the spinner would help.

Do you have an idea of what types of rule additions you're looking to add?

#46 6 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Glad to see this project is still moving forward. I think adding a spinner is a good idea. Does the playfield have to be modified to do this or can a spinner mech reside completely on the top side of the playfield?
The problem with this game, and one of the challenges going forward is that the playfield is pretty limited in shots and scoring options. Something like Strikes and Spares, although still a very simple layout, has so many more targets and obvious potential new rule directions. Because Star Trek has limited targets and shots, I think you have your work cut out for you. To this end, adding additional scoring options like the spinner would help.
Do you have an idea of what types of rule additions you're looking to add?

There's plenty that can be done rules wise with the mechs and targets. There's a saucer so multiball is possible. A spinner is something that people ask me to put in all the time so interested to hear if theres a specific place people want it, or if its a known upgrade. Something else hardware wise that i'm look at is controlled drop target upgrades, so they can get be setup and down individually and also moved about during game play.

#47 6 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

I can play a basic game and the stern pwm flippers work and are nice and strong

Are you using Bally-style flipper bats or Stern?

As for a spinner location, I think the most fun would be the warp shot on the left up to the two rollovers. There's not enough incentive to shoot it as it is now. A spinner could add a lot there even if it's a tough shot!

#48 6 years ago
Quoted from Law:

Are you using Bally-style flipper bats or Stern?
As for a spinner location, I think the most fun would be the warp shot on the left up to the two rollovers. There's not enough incentive to shoot it as it is now. A spinner could add a lot there even if it's a tough shot!

You can't really speak to the incentive to shoot any of the existing shots once the rules have been re-written, so I think the location should be based more on physical placement vs. anything to do with current rules. The fun of a spinner is really ripping it for big points. I think the left lane provides this better than the right one. Not sure about everyone else, but at least on my game, I can hit the left lane much easier than the right one. Plus, I would hope the right lane to the shooter is minimize in importance compared to now because it's so imbalanced currently and really interrupts the flow of the game by dead-ending into the shooter lane. I'd prefer not having to hit that shot 50 times per game. Just my thoughts.

#49 6 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

You can't really speak to the incentive to shoot any of the existing shots once the rules have been re-written, so I think the location should be based more on physical placement vs. anything to do with current rules. The fun of a spinner is really ripping it for big points. I think the left lane provides this better than the right one. Not sure about everyone else, but at least on my game, I can hit the left lane much easier than the right one. Plus, I would hope the right lane to the shooter is minimize in importance compared to now because it's so imbalanced currently and really interrupts the flow of the game by dead-ending into the shooter lane. I'd prefer not having to hit that shot 50 times per game. Just my thoughts.

I actually meant the lower-down left shot, the one you (probably) never shoot intentionally. Not the upper left rollover shot.

#50 6 years ago

The left shot up to the archway (Extra Ball) would be the best results as far as flipper power goes. And it also has a set of lights that could be used to increase the value. Either per spin, or based on speed of spin. However, there is no real right hand post to anchor it to and a floating spinner (like Stern 9 Ball) would still get smacked by a pop bumper and bend it out of shape. Unless you are willing to add post and perhaps a small island for it. It could be mounted up high near the mini-post guarding the spot target to the right but you will probably find it doesn't perform as well as if it were down closer to the 2 thousand lamp.

Using the lower left pathway will result in very small spins. Think how little energy there is on a ball for the lower left saucer on a game like T2. If you did place it here, you would probably want to add an arched flat ball rail to the side stick to move the ball smoothly into the bumper area. However, adding this piece of hardware will result in balls that enter that 2 lane 5000 area simply getting dead hits to the metal (the wood sticks rebound balls pretty nicely) and get most balls going down the left pathway.

Time Warp Ball shooter return lane would make for the easiest add but you would probably have to use one of the more contemporary narrow spinners to fit the alley. And there is no lighting there to incorporate into spinner rules and it would be rather anti-climactic to rip the ball in there and then wait for the spinner to stop and then plunge your ball again.

Of course, you could also add more than just 1 spinner just need to find different purposes for each in the new rule set.

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