(Topic ID: 227770)

Bally Star Trek - Pop Bumper Weirdness

By Macca

5 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 24 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Macca
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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Star Trek Playfield (resized).jpg
#1 5 years ago

Hello, just discovered this great site and forum. Just getting back into pinball after my two machines stood quiet for years. I’m having some weirdness with my Bally Star Trek. (Also problems with my Gottlieb World Fair that I’ll post soon in EM forum)

1> Initially, no pop bumpers worked at all.
2> I resoldered the capacitor that I installed years ago on the solenoid driver board and one bumper worked, two still do not work.
3> Both non-working bumpers work during the self test, but generally not in game.

THE PROBLEM: One non-working bumper will work when I turn on the machine, but if I spell out B-A-L-L-Y from the top of the playfield the fanfare will sound and as soon as the next ball hits that bumper, it's completely dead.

I looked for any broken wires but didn’t find any.
I tested the TP5 and the F4 fuse with a multimeter and all was good.
The fuse under the play field near the flippers is good as well.

The number “39” does show up on the scoreboard…error code?

I’m considering getting the Alltek Ultimate Solenoid board in hopes of ALL bumpers working correctly.
I already replaced the MPU with an Alltek board and my score displays magically appeared (player 4 a little wavy)

Is this the result of a bad soldering job or is there something else happening that a new Ultimate Solenoid board would fix the problem?

Thank you very much for your time

Star Trek Playfield (resized).jpgStar Trek Playfield (resized).jpg
#2 5 years ago
Quoted from Macca:

The number “39” does show up on the scoreboard…error code?

Check/regap switch #39 Right Thumper Bumper

Don't jump the gun and assume solenoid problems. Most of the time these are SWITCH problems.
After that switch is cleared, either follow the procedure in the manual for stepping through switch test, or reboot for additional stuck switch errors.

#3 5 years ago

Some notes I made based on your report...

If the bumpers work in test but do not work during game play it's probably a problem with the switches and not the coils.
If you get random bumps during start and play the little .05uf disc capacitors soldered to the switches are probably bad. Over time they fail and you should replace them.
That flashing 39 is probably a stuck switch. Checking the manual which you can find on line, switch 39 is the right bumper. So you have a problem with the switch adjustment or the cap i spoke of above has failed.
Since the game is working otherwise I would hold off on replacing the boards and instead remove them and reflow the solder on the pin connections.
The capacitor you replaced probably has no affect on switch problems but it's a good idea to replace the two large capacitors on the SD board as they go bad over time.

#4 5 years ago

Thank you Wayout440 and BigAl56, I'll check switch 39. Hopefully, that'll be the fix. I'm pretty new to the technical aspects of pinball, but I'm trying my best to learn.

Would this switch also affect the other bumper that doesn't work in the game?

Heading out for the day, but I'll post the results when I can.

Thank you again for all your help.

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from Macca:

Thank you Wayout440 and BigAl56, I'll check the manual/schematics and see exactly where switch 39 is located. Hopefully, that'll be the fix. I'm pretty new to the technical aspects of pinball, but I'm trying my best to learn.
Would this switch also affect the other bumper that doesn't work in the game?
Heading out for the day, but I'll post the results when I can.
Thank you again for all your help.

Not certain that the manual shows clearly where the switch is, you'll need to look at the underside of the switch mechanism. There is a spoon switch to activate the solenoid, and a second switch, called a scoring switch, activated by a cam when the solenoid plunger moves its full travel.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-rebuilding-pop-bumpers

popb2 (resized).pngpopb2 (resized).png
#6 5 years ago

Thank you, I'll take a look at that. Also, thank you for posting that pic.
I edited my post realizing that particular pop bumper is where switch 39 is located.

The other day, I manually engaged that bumper and it seemed to work in all the games I played, then yesterday, the same problem.
I have to take a look at that other bumper that's completely dead in the game

I asked earlier, would that one bumper (39) affect the other from not working?

#7 5 years ago

Strange switch problems can also be connector issues on either the mpu or SDU. Check for cold solder and give the connectors the "wiggle test" and see if anything changes if this other switch error doesnt pan out.

#8 5 years ago

Hey Chalkey,

Sorry, I have no idea what the "wiggle test" is, can you explain?
Also, not familiar with the term "cold solder."
Just did a quick Google search, but I'd rather hear it from you please.

I have a new Alltek Ultimate MPU, that gave life to a couple of things that didn't work.
That's why I was considering getting the Ultimate Solenoid board to hopefully get everything working.
I'll try to get everything working and as a last resort order the board.

As much as would love to have all original boards in my pin, you really can't beat the new technology that's out there for us.

Btw, I'm so impressed that there are so many people of this forum willing to help so fast after posting...just great!

Thank you for the reply.

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Not certain that the manual shows clearly where the switch is, you'll need to look at the underside of the switch mechanism. There is a spoon switch to activate the solenoid, and a second switch, called a scoring switch, activated by a cam when the solenoid plunger moves its full travel.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-rebuilding-pop-bumpers
[quoted image]

This diagram is for a different manufacturer even though the coil is labeled Bally, or maybe it's an EM drawing.

The Bally solid state mech only uses one switch, which would be considered a scoring switch (gold plated, low voltage, low current contacts). When the MPU sees a valid closure on the switch the software energizes the solenoid for a predetermined period of time. This is why your solenoids work in test mode, the software drives the coil independently from the switch on the mech.

The solenoid switch on the mech in the diagram completes a physical connection to ground to energize the solenoid as long as the bumper skirt is held down. There is no software control in this configuration.

#10 5 years ago

Thank you Dothedoo for the clarification on the diagram. Great information all around.
It's great drawing from all the knowledge on these forums.

I'm learning and I'm sure all newbies are learning thanks to the support from members.

I'll post any results...

#11 5 years ago

IT’S ALIVE, ALIVE!!!

I just took a look at my dead, dormant, Frankenstein like bumper and noticed the leaf was closed.
As a test, I took a bit of a business card and inserted it to create a gap.

The bumper worked perfect with every game played.
I took out the card and will order a leaf switch adjusting tool.

Hopefully that problem after spelling B-A-L-L-Y is corrected, but I’ll check after getting the tool.

Now, I think my pin may not be angled correctly because I’ve had some balls that got stuck in the game.
Is there a specific level/tool I need to get or just any level in general?

Can I get any recommendations for essential pinball tools?

Thank you…

#12 5 years ago

An ordinary bubble level is fine for side to side leveling, put it on the playfield, not the glass.
I use a clinometer app on my phone to ballpark the 6.5 standard degree angle and then tweak for less or more desired speed.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-is-in-your-tool-kit

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-tools-parts-kit

#13 5 years ago

Thank you for that information and those links.

I'm looking for which vendor to purchase that leaf switch adjusting tool.
The best would be the 45 and 90 degree angle.

I'm reading some of the tools from certain vendors aren't very strong and are susceptible to breaking.
I think some of those posts were from 4-5 years ago.

Any suggestions?

#14 5 years ago

Call Steve @ Pinball resource. He loves to help newbies

#15 5 years ago

Thank you for the info...

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

Call Steve @ Pinball resource. He loves to help newbies

yea, like that's great advice for a newbe (sarcasm)
what do you want him to do quit.

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from wdennie:

yea, like that's great advice for a newbe (sarcasm)
what do you want him to do quit.

His cherry needs to be broken.

#18 5 years ago

POP, OOP THERE IT IS

#19 5 years ago

Wow, this thread took a fast 180 turn.

Update: I’m currently waiting for a delivery of switch adjusting tools.
I’ll adjust those bumpers and the sling shots which I think are gapped too far.

I’ll have a complete working pin after that adjustment...fingers crossed.

Also, I previously ordered a schematic and flexstone files for my Gottlieb World Fair.

The schematic was in the package, but no flexstone files.
So disappointed. I’m still waiting for the company to respond to my email and send my flexstone files.

Really excited to try and get that machine working.
I plan on posting in the EM section, when the time is right.

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from Macca:

I plan on posting in the EM section, when the time is right.

Good heavens no, that's not an EM...that is an early solid state. They'll nail you to the wall!

#21 5 years ago

Is this some sort of pinball humor I'm not familiar with?

The first part of my post was referring to My Bally solid-state Star Trek machine and the last section of the post I was referring to my 1964 Gottlieb World Fair EM machine

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from Macca:

Is this some sort of pinball humor I'm not familiar with?
e

Just my poor attempt at it.
just whack me upside the head with a flexstone

#23 5 years ago

No problem, if my order of flexstone files ever gets sent out to me I'll be sure to look you up.

#24 5 years ago

Just an update:

I received my switch adjusting tools today and worked on the bumpers.
The one bumper that was dead was adjusted and now works.
The other bumper was working then suddenly stopped working.

I noticed the stationary blade wasn’t making contact with the smaller blade.
I did a bit of bending and that seems to have done the trick.
I adjusted it and now have three working bumpers.

I attempted working on the slingshots because they appear too floppy for lack of a better word
when the ball hits. I think the gap is too big, but working under the playfield with slingshots was more difficult than working on the bumpers. I’ll get to it eventually.

I also took off the connections to the “Player 4” score that was wavy and reconnected it and it looks great with no wave. An occasional number will flutter, but it’s player 4 so I can live with that.

There are a couple of bulbs that don’t work under the playfield. I changed a couple bulbs but some still didn’t work.
I really didn’t want to disconnect the holder and just bent it back to get access to the bulb.
In time, I guess it makes sense to first get a lamp cleaner and hope that solves some of the bulb problems.

That’s enough for one night. I stopped and just enjoyed playing my game.

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