(Topic ID: 107551)

Bally Special Force solenoid expander board

By KenLayton

7 years ago


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  • 30 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by barakandl
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 7 years ago

For those of you with the Bally "Special Force" pinball (6803 hardware), I bet you noticed the Solenoid Expander Board AS-2518-66 is not shown or listed in the manual. If you need the schematic and parts list for it, I found those in the Eight Ball Deluxe manual. The board schematic is in the schematics section of the manual and the physical board layout and parts list is in the parts section.

In Special Force, Q25 (2N5060) on the control (CPU) board turns on the lamp next to the expander board which also turns on the relay on the expander board. Remember, this bulb has to work or else the expander board can't turn on the relay. So if the 555 bulb is burned out or missing, there's not going to be enough of a load for Q25 to latch on the MOC3011 optocoupler driver that energizes the relay.

#2 7 years ago

Thanks for posting this. Would it work to replace the 555 with an LED so it lasts longer and you have less to worry about?

#3 7 years ago

Needs to be a 555 bulb. Not enough load from an led.

#4 7 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Needs to be a 555 bulb. Not enough load from an led.

Yes indeed! This is one of those rare instances where an incandescent bulb absolutely positvely MUST be there. An LED bulb simply does not draw enough of a load for the Q25 to properly latch. Without a properly working solenoid expander board, the wrong coils will be firing!

#6 7 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Needs to be a 555 bulb. Not enough load from an led.

Quoted from KenLayton:

Yes indeed! This is one of those rare instances where an incandescent bulb absolutely positvely MUST be there. An LED bulb simply does not draw enough of a load for the Q25 to properly latch. Without a properly working solenoid expander board, the wrong coils will be firing!

I used an LED in my SEB on EBD and it worked fine. I guess it all depends on the LED and the tolerance of the SCR. Couldn't hurt to try.

#7 7 years ago

Thanks for the answers. I keep waiting for that bulb to go out, have strange things start happening to the pin, and have me not knowing what the heck is going on.

#8 7 years ago

Here are pictures of an original AS-2518-66 Solenoid Expander Board.

SolExpand1.JPG SolExpand2.JPG SolExpand3.JPG
#9 7 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

I used an LED in my SEB on EBD and it worked fine. I guess it all depends on the LED and the tolerance of the SCR. Couldn't hurt to try.

you must have used a "NON FLICKER" or premium type bulb with the built in resistor is my guess. It is nice that it works with the LED and you will never have to worry about a blown lamp causing you an issue.

1 month later
#10 6 years ago

So, how would I test this board to determine if its working?

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from kcpinchip:

So, how would I test this board to determine if its working?

Does the lamp signal flick the relay back and forth?

1 year later
#12 4 years ago

I want to try to see if I can get a new one of these expander boards. I noticed there are two part numbers listed on the board, the one you mention AS-2518-66 and a different one A084-91618-A000. And, in the manual, it lists it as B084-91618-A000.

Any idea why the discrepancy? I was thinking about checking Pinball Resource and want to make sure I get the part number correct.

#13 4 years ago

The "AS" part number is a Bally number.

The super long part numbers are Midway numbers.

#14 4 years ago

Got it. Thanks!

3 weeks later
#15 4 years ago

Guys, I need your help. My old solenoid expander board had intermittent misfires but still worked most of the time. I bought a new one from Great Lakes Modular. When I plug it in to the game, it doesn't seem to work at all. When I try to start a game, the knocker fires instead of kicking a ball into the shooter lane. When I put the game in lamp test mode, I don't hear any clicks of the relay. I removed it and put the old relay back in. That one still works, again with the occasional miss. I emailed the vendor, got an initial response asking for more information, I emailed back and then radio silence. It has been a while.

So, is there any way to test the relay itself out of the game? Like applying a battery to it to see if the relay clicks. If so, what type of battery and how? I would like to know if the relay is bad or if there is something wrong with the connection to this particular relay.

Thanks!

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Guys, I need your help. My old solenoid expander board had intermittent misfires but still worked most of the time. I bought a new one from Great Lakes Modular. When I plug it in to the game, it doesn't seem to work at all. When I try to start a game, the knocker fires instead of kicking a ball into the shooter lane. When I put the game in lamp test mode, I don't hear any clicks of the relay. I removed it and put the old relay back in. That one still works, again with the occasional miss. I emailed the vendor, got an initial response asking for more information, I emailed back and then radio silence. It has been a while.
So, is there any way to test the relay itself out of the game? Like applying a battery to it to see if the relay clicks. If so, what type of battery and how? I would like to know if the relay is bad or if there is something wrong with the connection to this particular relay.
Thanks!

Is the bulb good that connects too it? Did you test the wires/plug that attach to the board? Check those first.

#17 4 years ago

There is next to nothing to go wrong on this board anyway. Have you tried reflowing the solder on the original one?

#18 4 years ago

Yeh, this is a clone of the original board and there is not much to go wrong. Sure you might have a bad one out of the box. Be sure to keep trying to contact the vendor since it's under warranty.

While you are waiting, it is definitely a good suggestion to resolder the connector pins on your old board.

#19 4 years ago

Hi all. Thanks for the replies.

The bulb works fine, and I recently replaced it to make sure. As I said, the old board works 97% of the time.

I didn't reflow the solder joints on the old board. One of the reasons I bought the new board is that I just don't have the skills to feel comfortable working on a board. I don't want to mess up and ruin my old board. So, I was willing to spend $25 rather than trying to reflow solder on a board. Soldering wires to lugs I'm ok with; working on a board makes me nervous.

Here is a clue. This is the new board attached to the connector:

IMG_1092 (resized).JPG

Notice that the connector does not go all the way down onto the new board; there is a slight gap. On the old board, the connector goes all the way down. I looked at the pins on both boards. On the old board, the pins look slightly longer and have a more pointy, tapered end. On the new board, the pins are more blunt at the end. Could I not be making decent contact, or is this slight difference not enough to matter? If it is the pins, is there a conversion kit that I can get to put more pointy pins on the new board. I've never redone a connector before, and I would hate to go through the trouble if that isn't really the problem.

Let me know your thoughts. I appreciate all the help.

#20 4 years ago

Bump for some feedback on my last post. Thanks!

1 year later
#21 3 years ago

Does anyone know a source for these boards? All of the linked sources are out of stock. I got one some time ago from Great Lakes but it was DOA, and they haven’t been responsive. I want to find another board so I can hopefully get my pin fully functioning again. Thanks.

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Does anyone know a source for these boards? All of the linked sources are out of stock. I got one some time ago from Great Lakes but it was DOA, and they haven’t been responsive. I want to find another board so I can hopefully get my pin fully functioning again. Thanks.

Contact Ksarcade or Marco and ask them if they know when they will be back in stock. It will give you a time frame of when to expect them again.

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from metalkatt:

Contact Ksarcade or Marco and ask them if they know when they will be back in stock. It will give you a time frame of when to expect them again.

Good idea. I'll try it and report back, though I believe they have been out of stock for some time.

2 months later
#24 3 years ago

Hi all. Marco now has these back in stock. I just got one, and I’m happy to say that my Special Force is back up and running. It’s been too long. This proves that the one I got way back when from Great Lakes Modular was in fact DOA for whatever reason.

Now that I have a working one, I am going to take an my old one and see if I can fix it. I really haven’t tried any type of board repair, but I feel I can try now that I have a replacement. It will be a good learning experience.

Anyway, if anyone needs this part, I just wanted to mention that you should grab one from Marco before they are gone.

1 week later
#25 3 years ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Hi all. Marco now has these back in stock. I just got one, and I’m happy to say that my Special Force is back up and running. It’s been too long. This proves that the one I got way back when from Great Lakes Modular was in fact DOA for whatever reason.
Now that I have a working one, I am going to take an my old one and see if I can fix it. I really haven’t tried any type of board repair, but I feel I can try now that I have a replacement. It will be a good learning experience.
Anyway, if anyone needs this part, I just wanted to mention that you should grab one from Marco before they are gone.

I started making the -66 solenoid expander board. They are now available in the pinside store and my website.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1055-nvramweeblycom/02014-new-as-2518-66-solenoid-expander-midway-a084-91618-a000

3 months later
#26 2 years ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Hi all. Marco now has these back in stock. I just got one, and I’m happy to say that my Special Force is back up and running. It’s been too long. This proves that the one I got way back when from Great Lakes Modular was in fact DOA for whatever reason.
Now that I have a working one, I am going to take an my old one and see if I can fix it. I really haven’t tried any type of board repair, but I feel I can try now that I have a replacement. It will be a good learning experience.
Anyway, if anyone needs this part, I just wanted to mention that you should grab one from Marco before they are gone.

Having a new board gave me the confidence to try to fix my old board. It was cold solder joints. Reflowing the solder at all the pins did the trick. I know this will seem basic to most of you, and I should have just done this a long time ago, but I've never done any board repair work before. This was my first time reflowing solder. I just bought a new Hakko so I could try my hand at things like this. Anyway, I'm feeling pretty proud.

1 year later
#27 1 year ago

What’s the general purpose of this board? My light doesn’t flash and I’ve got some solenoid issues on 11, 9, 8 that aren’t working.

#28 1 year ago
Quoted from pacman11:

What’s the general purpose of this board? My light doesn’t flash and I’ve got some solenoid issues on 11, 9, 8 that aren’t working.

It routes the solenoid bus to separate banks of solenoids so one transistor can drive two coils depending on if the relay is turned on or off. Its also sometimes used to turn on/off a motor. Like the moving target in black pyramid. A lamp driver turns on the relay.

If the light does not flash treat it like a non working lamp circuit. The lamp SCR could be bad or there is a connector / wiring problem.

#29 1 year ago
Quoted from barakandl:

It routes the solenoid bus to separate banks of solenoids so one transistor can drive two coils depending on if the relay is turned on or off. Its also sometimes used to turn on/off a motor. Like the moving target in black pyramid. A lamp driver turns on the relay.
If the light does not flash treat it like a non working lamp circuit. The lamp SCR could be bad or there is a connector / wiring problem.

Okay thanks, my light is working on it.

#30 1 year ago
Quoted from pacman11:

Okay thanks, my light is working on it.

if the light blinks then i would pull out the board and inspect it for cracked solder joints.

In special force when you fire rockets it should click the relay as it drops the targets.

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