(Topic ID: 280408)

Bally Speak Easy - Flippers always have power

By bonsoo

1 year ago


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  • 17 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by BigAl56
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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measurements (resized).png
SDB_Coil_Drive_Voltages.gif

#1 1 year ago

. . . as soon as it powers on. Even before it enters attract mode. And even after game over.

MPU led flashes appropriately (flicker/flash + 6 flashes). In solenoid test, K1 relay does not click. But I wouldn't expect it to, because it has already enabled the flippers.

Everything I've seen about troubleshooting the K1 flipper enable circuit is based on determining why flippers are not energized. So the quick jumpering and continuity tests don't help me because current is already flowing. I did them anyway. I've compared the readings of components in the circuit with other components on the board that are the same and all readings are consistent.

So I've got three questions: Is there an easy way to test the functionality of the K1 relay itself? Could the problem not be on the SDB and if so, what/where should I check next? And, is there anything else you can suggest based on your experience/knowledge?

FYI -- I mention this in case it's related -- In the switch test, all the roulette wheel switches are giving me errors (any of #2 to #5 shows every time I run a switch test), even though the wheel is not giving me any problems in play.

Game plays just fine, except that the flippers are always energized. Guess it's better to an issue that doesn't affect game play, but I'd kinda like to get this fixed.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

#2 1 year ago

Sounds like k1 is stuck closed. I'd take the board out and check for a closed switch or a short on the board that closes it on power up.

#3 1 year ago

Below are voltage measurements on the solenoid driver board drive circuit for the flipper enable relay.
Take some measurements and see where you find discrepancies.

SDB_Coil_Drive_Voltages.gif

#4 1 year ago

Thanks for the direction! Here are my measurements.
For 'Off', game was in attract mode. For 'On', a game was initialized.

As the flippers are always energized, I am not surprised that most measurements are consistent with your 'Flippers On' voltages. However, U4 pin 3 reads correct in the off position.

Interestingly, when testing U4, my probe contacted both pin 3 and pin 4 and the relay responded, so I know it's not seized.

Is this telling me my issue is not with the relay, diode or transistor, but rather with U4?

measurements (resized).png
#5 1 year ago
Quoted from bonsoo:

Is this telling me my issue is not with the relay, diode or transistor, but rather with U4?

The relay is being told to engage. The fault is not the relay, Q15 transistor or CR15 diode. It could possibly be U4 or upstream from the MPU board. The "on" voltage at U4 pin 3 might be a touch high.
Can you disconnect the J4 connector off the solenoid driver board, power up the game and see if the flippers are still enabled?

#6 1 year ago

I disconnected J4 from the SDB and the flippers are still enabled.

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from bonsoo:

I disconnected J4 from the SDB and the flippers are still enabled.

So it's not the MPU board erroneously enabling the flippers.
With J4 still disconnected, can you measure the voltage at U4 pin 3 and report back?

#8 1 year ago

With J4 disconnected, U4 pin 3 reads 0.8V.

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from bonsoo:

With J4 disconnected, U4 pin 3 reads 0.8V.

If pin 2 of U4 reads 2.03 volts when U4 pin 3 has 0.8 volts, then U4 is suspect bad.

With the machine off, you can do resistance/diode mode checks on U4 pin 2 and compare to pin 2 readings at U1 and U3. Readings should be the same.

#10 1 year ago

Yeah, readings are the same: 0.125V.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from bonsoo:

Yeah, readings are the same: 0.125V.

Is that a diode mode reading? or voltage reading with the power on?

#12 1 year ago

Sorry. It is a diode reading and is consistent across U1, U2 and U4. Voltage reading with power on was 2.03V on U2 and readings on U1 and U3 are 0.43V and 0.41V respectively.

#13 1 year ago

It looks like pin 2 of U4 has internally gone open circuit. The diode reading you got was due to external circuitry.
U4 is a "CA3081" transistor array. Time to replace it.

#14 1 year ago

By following along with the schematic, I was able to understand your step-by-step diagnosis. I've already sourced a replacement IC. Thank you for taking the time to help. Much appreciated!

3 weeks later
#15 1 year ago

Sorry for the delay. Part only arrived this week. I am pleased to report that all is good again. Thank you for your assistance.

3 months later
#16 1 year ago

I have the same issue with a ‘78 Strikes and Spares with brand new Alltek Solenoid and MPU boards and new power board installed. Game plays great otherwise...any suggestions?

#17 1 year ago

The flipper relay sends grounds to the flippers if the buttons are pressed. If the flippers are enabled even with a good relay and mpu then look for a hack that bypasses the relay to power the flippers.

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