Bally Silverball Mania Help With Target/Bulb

Hey fellow Pinsiders,this is my first post. I am a union pipefitter/plumber by trade so my knowledge of electrical is very limited.I do know what a circuit is and I know how to use a multimeter and I can solder wires ok but beyond that I am somewhat challenged. I recently purchased a 1979 Bally Silverball Mania that was not working. The MPU had lots of corrosion on it so I took a chance and replaced it with an Alltek which brought it back to life. I did change all the bulbs to single SMD leds and replaced all the rubber bands.The pin plays and looks great except that there is one bulb that does not light. It is the "N" in Mania which is lit by hitting the "N" target. I did clean the contacts on the target but that did not help. No voltage at any time is getting to the bulb socket even when in the test sequence. I did notice that similar targets have a small disk capacitor (0.33uF 12V Y5F). This capacitor seems to be missing on the N target, in fact you can see where the it would have been soldered to the terminals on the switch. Would the absence of this little cap cause the issue? The pin came with all the original schematics but they are absolutely confusing to me. I am out of my element on this, could someone with more experience than me point me in the right direction. Thanks for any advice.

#2 5 years ago

???

plumber802

Inactive member

B362745D-3AD7-48D6-B12D-D010C2A62DAE (resized).jpeg

#3 5 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

^ that thing is in really good shape. Normally they are more blown out than a 1st wife.

Turn on LAMP TEST (little red button in the coin door). See if that bulb lights.

Then turn on SWITCH TEST and see if the the "N" lights the proper switch number in the manual

#4 5 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Oh yeah, welcome to Pinside

#5 5 years ago

???

plumber802

Inactive member

Thanks vid1900. I will try what you suggest.Here is a pic of the switch and one close up of the “N” which is not lit.

173210AB-6243-4767-91E5-B239417A2574 (resized).jpeg

56C33BD7-9C1F-4D00-9574-323891E47261 (resized).jpeg

#6 5 years ago

AXE

YeOldPinPlayer

Inactive member

Unknown

8y 111K 6,454 4 12

You can find helpful repair information at the Pinwiki: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern
Your manual (ipdb.org has one if you don't have a copy) has the switch matrix near the back in the schematics area. Looks like switch 56? is for the N. (not sure I'm reading it right). Try going into switch test mode and activating the N.

If the N switch works, maybe you have a dirty or bad bulb socket. Game should be off when cleaning the socket. You can get a cleaning tool at http://www.pbresource.com/tools.html (leaf adjuster tool is helpful too).

#7 5 years ago

???

plumber802

Inactive member

Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:
You can find helpful repair information at the Pinwiki: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern
Your manual (ipdb.org has one if you don't have a copy) has the switch matrix near the back in the schematics area. Looks like switch 56? is for the N. (not sure I'm reading it right). Try going into switch test mode and activating the N.
If the N switch works, maybe you have a dirty or bad bulb socket. Game should be off when cleaning the socket. You can get a cleaning tool at http://www.pbresource.com/tools.html (leaf adjuster tool is helpful too).

I don't think it's a bad socket since there is no voltage going to it when in test mode.I do have a leaf adjuster but will definitely be getting a socket cleaning tool.I tried cleaning the contacts on the N switch, still no go.

#8 5 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

OP
Quoted from plumber802:
I don't think it's a bad socket since there is no voltage going to it when in test mode.

If there is no voltage in test mode, then it's probably an open transistor (or bad contact) on the lamp board (under MPU board in backbox)

#9 5 years ago

???

plumber802

Inactive member

Quoted from vid1900:
If there is no voltage in test mode, then it's probably an open transistor (or bad contact) on the lamp board (under MPU board in backbox)

Sounds like this is getting way too complex for me.

#10 5 years ago

WTF

timab2000

Pinside member

Switch out the bad socket with one that works and see if it works. Or do the light test off the coin door and then wiggle some of the connector that are attached to the mpu and light driver board and see if it lights up maybe a bad connector

You said the old mpu had corrosion so one of the plug connectors may not be making good connection.

#11 5 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

OP
Quoted from plumber802:
Sounds like this is getting way too complex for me.

In lamp test, jiggle connectors on lamp board, if lamp lights briefly, replace contacts on connector.

#12 5 years ago

INK

Inkochnito

Pinside member

Piershil

12y 91,650 3,167 12

Center "N" Target is switch 28.
Center "N" lamp in MANIA is driven by Q8 on the lamp driver board.
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Silverball_Mania

Try putting in a know to be good regular light bulb first before putting in a led.
The power is supplied via the bare wire at the mounting screw of the lamp socket.
If you do not have any voltage at the mounting screw, check the bare wire.
Put in a regular light bulb and measure at the small wire at the tip of the socket.
If the lamp is good, you should have 6.5V at this point.

Please report back your findings...

#13 5 years ago

WTF

timab2000

Pinside member

Was just looking at the wire diagram for your game, and on the light driver board the "N" light should be a blue and yellow wire that hooks into the J1 connector.

It looks like it's the 7th wire from the top of the connector. That's the one I would giggle a bit and see what happens. If it lights up when giggled bad connector, if not it could be what is quoted below that's bad.

Quoted from Inkochnito:
Center "N" lamp in MANIA is driven by Q8 on the lamp driver board.

Easy to check but make sure you use a light that you know works.

#14 5 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Quoted from timab2000:
That's the one I would giggle a bit and see what happens. If it lights up when giggled bad connector, if not it could be what is listed above that's bad.

That's a lot of giggling for a cenobite

#15 5 years ago

WTF

timab2000

Pinside member

That's funny but it's a quick easy way to check stuff I guess.

But now I feel like I have to change my avatar

#16 5 years ago

???

plumber802

Inactive member

Quoted from timab2000:
Switch out the bad socket with one that works and see if it works. Or do the light test off the coin door and then wiggle some of the connector that are attached to the mpu and light driver board and see if it lights up maybe a bad connector
You said the old mpu had corrosion so one of the plug connectors may not be making good connection.

YES! I re-seated the J4 connector on the Lamp Driver board and it lit up briefly for about 2 minutes. It is now off again and even when I tried unplugging and plugging the connector it won't light. I tried wiggling each wire on the J4 connector to see if I could isolate which one is the bad connection but I am unable to get it to light again. Tried some light sand paper on the connector J4 pins on the board and still no go.I do have a crimping tool and some female pins. Do I need to re-pin the entire connector?

#17 5 years ago

???

plumber802

Inactive member

Quoted from vid1900:
In lamp test, jiggle connectors on lamp board, if lamp lights briefly, replace contacts on connector.

Thanks bud. See my post above. ^^^

#18 5 years ago

WTF

timab2000

Pinside member

And they were making fun of me jiggling a lot as a cenobite.

Not very high-tech but at least he got it to light up

I'd say replace the connector to if you feel comfortable doing that

#19 5 years ago

MCD

dasvis

Pinside member

Salem, OR

12y 101K 4,796 11 16

OP
Quoted from plumber802:
YES! I re-seated the J4 connector on the Lamp Driver board and it lit up briefly for about 2 minutes. It is now off again and even when I tried unplugging and plugging the connector it won't light. I tried wiggling each wire on the J4 connector to see if I could isolate which one is the bad connection but I am unable to get it to light again. Tried some light sand paper on the connector J4 pins on the board and still no go.I do have a crimping tool and some female pins. Do I need to re-pin the entire connector?

Don't use sandpaper on the pins, you will remove any protective plating. A pencil eraser or brass brush is better.
Sounds like you will be re-pinning connectors. Not difficult, just tedious. Tools & parts to do the job are available @ Great plains electronics.

#20 5 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

OP
Quoted from plumber802:
Tried some light sand paper on the connector J4 pins on the board and still no go.I do have a crimping tool and some female pins. Do I need to re-pin the entire connector?

Now that the male pins have been sanded, you should replace both the female and male pins.

#21 5 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-quick-bally-driver-board-repair-bulletproofing

To have a reliable Classic Bally, you really need to redo the connectors.

They were rated for 25 installation cycles, and yours have probably been cycled 250 times in 40 years.

#22 5 years ago

???

plumber802

Inactive member

Quoted from vid1900:
Now that the male pins have been sanded, you should replace both the female and male pins.

See what happens when a pipefitter messes around with electrical/electronics!

#23 5 years ago

???

plumber802

Inactive member

Quoted from vid1900:
To have a reliable Classic Bally, you really need to redo the connectors.
They were rated for 25 installation cycles, and yours have probably been cycled 250 times in 40 years.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-quick-bally-driver-board-repair-bulletproofing

Thanks for this helpful link. I appreciate your help.

#24 5 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

OP
Quoted from plumber802:
See what happens when a pipefitter messes around with electrical/electronics!

You are certainly not the first to try and sand connectors, I see it all the time.

Don't use any acid paste flux when soldering circuit boards, either.

#25 5 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

The backside of the board will often show "cracked solder joints" on the male pins .

It's another reason that "it worked when I jiggled it".

Look close at the rings around the pins, where the solder has separated:
6bdf8d3b1946b13a0fb4bc72634b870092f7568c (resized).jpg

#26 5 years ago

???

plumber802

Inactive member

I NEVER would have thought to look at the reverse side of the board for cracked pins! Thanks vid1900. I can't get to it until tomorrow but I will update this thread with what I find out when I pull the board.

#27 5 years ago

???

plumber802

Inactive member

Quoted from dasvis:
Don't use sandpaper on the pins, you will remove any protective plating. A pencil eraser or brass brush is better.
Sounds like you will be re-pinning connectors. Not difficult, just tedious. Tools & parts to do the job are available @ Great plains electronics.

Ya,I feel pretty foolish that I committed such a rookie mistake.In my trade you use sandpaper to clean any joints that need soldering.Luckily it was only that 1 connector.Is there a specific name for that connector and male/female pins?

#28 5 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=71

OP
Quoted from plumber802:
Luckily it was only that 1 connector.Is there a specific name for that connector and male/female pins?

It, looks different, but the Friction Lock part makes a better connection.

Buy enough of these for all the connectors on your boards. Trust me on this.

Get the 36 pin ones 22-28-0360 and snap them off to the lengths you need on all your boards.

How to do it:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-quick-bally-driver-board-repair-bulletproofing/page/2#post-1490990

For the Female connector, Keep the plastic housing, and just replace the contacts themselves:

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=73

How to do it:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-re-populating-playfields#post-4545041

#29 5 years ago

???

plumber802

Inactive member

Quoted from vid1900:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=71
It, looks different, but the Friction Lock part makes a better connection.
Buy enough of these for all the connectors on your boards. Trust me on this.
Get the 36 pin ones 22-28-0360 and snap them off to the lengths you need on all your boards.
How to do it:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-quick-bally-driver-board-repair-bulletproofing/page/2#post-1490990
=
For the Female connector, Keep the plastic housing, and just replace the contacts themselves:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=73
How to do it:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-re-populating-playfields#post-4545041

Again, more great info! I would have never thought that you could take a longer connector and break it off to the required size. Great knowledge on this forum. Thanks for those links. I can't get back to it until tomorrow but I will update this thread with what I find out.

#30 5 years ago

???

plumber802

Inactive member

There is no visible signs of any cracks on or around the pins.The 7 th pin from the top can be seen from counting from right to left in the pic. I checked the traces that are associated with that connector and they visually look okay. I am going to re-pin the connector and see if that helps.

1D4CBC6E-0F78-4770-82B8-CE58A5362902 (resized).jpeg

#31 5 years ago

???

plumber802

Inactive member

SUCCESS!!! I started by changing the female contact ( the 7th one from the top) on the female connector and the “N” is now lit. I have a fellow Pinsider friend that lives nearby that will help with changing the pins on the board.

372C31C4-DF20-40CE-A5A9-386DDDA4CC79 (resized).jpeg

#32 5 years ago

WTF

timab2000

Pinside member

Yeah buddy!!! Good job

#33 5 years ago

???

plumber802

Inactive member

Thanks Tim. You guys held my hand all the way. Can I put a very light coating of dielectric grease on the pins that I sanded? Or is this another bone head move.

#34 5 years ago

MCD

dasvis

Pinside member

Salem, OR

12y 101K 4,796 11 16

OP
Quoted from plumber802:
Thanks Tim. You guys held my hand all the way. Can I put a very light coating of dielectric grease on the pins that I sanded? Or is this another bone head move.

I would not, you need to replace the male pins for long term success. You should get an old junk board & practice removing & installing them, it's not too hard.

#35 5 years ago

???

plumber802

Inactive member

Quoted from dasvis:
I would not, you need to replace the male pins for long term success. You should get an old junk board & practice removing & installing them, it's not too hard.

Alright then.Thanks.

#36 5 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member