(Topic ID: 129045)

Bally Sea Ray advice


By Toyguy

3 years ago



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  • 15 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Toyguy
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Stepper unit wiper assembly.JPG
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#1 3 years ago

Just starting to work on this. Most game play logic seems good - 1 and 2 player games step through balls and end the game as they should. Bonus units seems to be mostly working - few light issues to look at. Major issue is this - anything that scores non-bonus playfield points, like the pops, slings and 10 point switches seems to score 100 points and then the game just shuts down. You can immediately press the start button to start a new game.

I have docs on order but until they arrive, anyone have any ideas where to begin?

Thanks!
Dave

#2 3 years ago

I would check the score reel switches. The 10 point reel carry over switch (suppose to close only in the 9 position) might be too close and be closed all the time. Not sure about the game ending. Does it tilt? Explain what happens in more detail.

#3 3 years ago

No sign of a tilt. The game just goes dark and stops, as if powered off. Back glass lights go off, similar to when you first turn it on. Pressing the Start button lights the back glass lights and launches a ball. Hitting any of the Advance Bonus stand ups will work fine and score 100 points, the Up/Down post works as it should and also scores. Any of the thumpers or 10 point switches will shut the game down though.

I have noticed that there is a huge spark on one of the player 1 10 point reel switches but until I get the schematics I cannot really tell what that switch drives. I have looked around for general shorts and cannot see anything obvious. The only dark coil is the 100 point reel coil but that works fine. I may just have to meter every coil I suppose.

#4 3 years ago

Follow what Stashyboy suggests above. For the game over issue, my guess would be that the Match unit has a burnt step up coil. Based on the age of the game (1971), it does not have a bell chime assembly but rather a bell mounted on the match unit and another bell assembly mounted on the left side wall of the head. On many games, the match unit (00-90 unit) is stepped by 10 point switches. It may also be stepped by 100 point scores. It could also be a fried coil on the larger bell assembly. Either way, instead of blowing the fuse, a shorted coil will sometimes cause a game or hold relay to drop out thereby ending the game.

Do a visual inspection of the coil. If not sure, unsolder one wire to the coil. The larger bell assembly should have a plug you can simply pull out (selects what type of points will ring the larger bell.)

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Follow what Stashyboy suggests above. For the game over issue, my guess would be that the Match unit has a burnt step up coil. Based on the age of the game (1971), it does not have a bell chime assembly but rather a bell mounted on the match unit and another bell assembly mounted on the left side wall of the head. On many games, the match unit (00-90 unit) is stepped by 10 point switches. It may also be stepped by 100 point scores. It could also be a fried coil on the larger bell assembly. Either way, instead of blowing the fuse, a shorted coil will sometimes cause a game or hold relay to drop out thereby ending the game.
Do a visual inspection of the coil. If not sure, unsolder one wire to the coil. The larger bell assembly should have a plug you can simply pull out (selects what type of points will ring the larger bell.)

Exactly what I was thinking. On Bally pins of this era, it usually is the Anti-Cheat Relay that drops out.

#6 3 years ago

No dice there. I cut out the match unit coil and it still does the same thing. I also unplugged the main bell and the knocker, just in case. Activating the 1000 and 100 point relays by hand works fine and advances the next reel on 9. Hand activating the 10 point reel immediately shuts off the game.

#7 3 years ago

Both for Player 1 and Player 2?

If so, look for a short on the device that changes player one to player two. Not sure if Sea Ray uses a "player up" unit or a 2nd player up relay.

If only on player one, maybe the coil on the 10's score reel for player 1 is shorted.

Use standard electrical troubleshooting techniques.

#8 3 years ago

Progress update! If I insulated the switch that was sparking, the second from the top on the 10 point relay (org/white and wht/grn), the 10 point relay would cycle the 10 point reel as you'd expect. I disconnected the playfield and the game would still shut down upon any activation of the 10 point relay, so the problem had to be in the back box or the main cabinet. It sure is helpful to be able to rule out the playfield so quickly!

Anyway, I started just looking for those wire colors in the back box. The wht/green was clearly routed properly and wherever it attached it was well insulated. The org/white lead back to the cut off lead on the match unit coil. I was thus confused as to how this could be a problem. I examined the wire routing closely and, at first glance, it looked fine. On the match unit, the two coil wires were tucked behind an un-used switch mounting bracket, so I went to re-position them only to find I couldn't move them. Reaching behind with my fingernail and prying a little, they popped out and there it was - the insulation on both wires had worn through and they had slightly arc-welded themselves to the match unit frame. I pulled them out of the way and separated them and started a game. The 10 point playfield switches now worked, as did the thumpers!

I'm hopeful the rest of the issues are simple adjustments and repairs now. One of the fuse holders is broken apart, a well known issue it seems. I am hopeful this is what's causing the lack of playfield and GI lighting except for the back box. The Bonus Unit steps up, but does not reset on game start. I need to check if it's resetting on bonus collect. And my now-functional 10s reel doesn't reset on startup but the game thinks it has. That should be easy.

Thanks for all the suggestions - the clue on the match unit was spot on - I just didn't see it right away.

#9 3 years ago

New problem all of a sudden. Power on and hit new game. Credit unit set to free play. The coin relay does not pull in thus neither does the lock relay. Powering on and hitting the left flipper button also no longer enables GI but manually hitting the lock relay works. In the absence of a schematic yet, what paths should I check for getting the coin relay energized?

On a related note, manually activating the coin relay does latch it in, so the issue appears to be with whatever initially pulls it in.

#10 3 years ago

A bit more progress, and more questions of course. I now have a schematic in hand. With it, I was able to resolve the issue with the Lock Relay. Hitting the left flipper now powers up the GI. Hitting the start button, however, does absolutely nothing. I'm not having much luck tracing that out on the schematic. Anyone able to suggest anything specific I should look at?

Also, while cleaning up the playfield, I noticed what looks like rubber rings on the little mushroom bumpers. Anyone know what size they are and how you change them? Do I need to pull the mushroom caps for that?

Thanks!

Dave

#11 3 years ago

Go to IPDB (or just google)and find the book titled "An introduction to Bally Flipper Games". Print it out/read it. The credit/start circuit is explained very well in it.

Probably just a dirty with corrosion (white corrosion) or loose Jones Plug based on it was working and then quit. Assuming fuses are good & tight in their holders etc.

#12 3 years ago

Thanks. I have those docs and while I think I understand what should be happening, what they don't say is how it happens. So maybe the coin relay will energize when a coin is dropped in, but what makes that happen? That's a bad example, because it's easy to see on the schematic but what's eluding me is what happens when you just hit the Credit Button? How are the coin and/or reset relays being energized then?

On an unrelated note, looking into why my various feature and bonus lights aren't coming on, I have started by removing the spider from the bonus unit. I've polished up the rivets and contacts as well as the wiper on the disc. What is the short copper bit sticking up from the spider hub? It doesn't seem to contact anything else but the frame. I'd be curious to know what it does and what it's supposed to look like? Is it correct as is, or is there supposed to be a contact on that also?

Thanks!

Spider.JPG

#13 3 years ago

That is missing a small crescent shaped protrusion at the end of the inner edge. You can actually form a contact by bending up the area noted below with a good pair of needle-nose pliers. Look on the circuit board for the circular contact face area for a thin line where the part broke off from to see where contact needs to be made. Take off another stepper unit's contact finger assembly to see how it used to look.

Stepper unit wiper assembly.JPG
#14 3 years ago

I sure can't say I understand why, but I may have fixed the startup issue. It occurred to me after mulling it over a few days that it would seem to work once I had reset everything by hand, playing one game and then fail. It hit me that I knew the Ball Count unit was sluggish and had it on the list of things to do, but maybe that was related. So I played my one game, it failed to start game two as usual. I reset only the Ball Count unit, which had moved back to a spot between Balls 1 and 2 and it worked! Started game two with no other fiddling needed.

No, this is not yet a sure fix until it survives some more testing today but it looked promising last night. Just the Match Unit to rehab now - still not getting some Feature lights on the play field that the schematic shows being driven by that stepper.

#15 3 years ago

Final update - she's up and running! The Ball Count unit was indeed the source of the startup issues and the game has flawlessly started every time since I cleaned that up.

Cleaning up the Match unit got 2 of the waterfall lights to come on, but very dimly and the other 2 didn't work at all. The Match lights were also very dim. While going over the Match unit again with my flashlight I caught a glimmer of light off bare copper - what do you know, a severed wire on the back of the bakelite disk. It came apart again, a new wire was soldered into place, and upon reassembly the game was fully operational.

Fun little game, with an interesting playfield. Now I just have to decide whether to buy a new backglass from Steve at BGresto!

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