(Topic ID: 254131)

Bally reset bank - clutch fix? 3D Update and Poll 12/7/19


By DCP

3 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 25 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 64 days ago by DCP
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Which part(s) do you need for your On Beam or Bowl-O clutch?”

  • Outer cam 0 votes
  • Spring 0 votes
  • Small cam on end 1 vote
    50%
  • Steel spring clutch (if original is not repairable - may only need spring) 0 votes
  • Whole enchilada 1 vote
    50%

(Multiple choice - 2 votes)

Topic Gallery

There have been 15 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

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#1 3 months ago

Fixing a nice On Beam...one of the clutches on the reset bank is falling apart. Has anyone found a replacement for those? Does anyone have a parts catalog that shows the relay reset assembly? Game is On Beam, there are a few others that use the motorized relay reset mech. There are some parts common with bingos, but not the clutches apparently. First pic is the left clutch which appears intact. The other one is electrical taped and falling apart. Maybe some kind of industrial replacement is available...any ideas?
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#2 3 months ago

The reset bank is similar in design to 70s bingos - motorized with arms that reset each relay. I don't recall what the clutch/bushing looks like on those (I've been meaning to compare to the later EM flippers), but I would suspect that 3D printing would be right for that job?

#3 3 months ago

http://bingo.cdyn.com/paper/

Pg 38-39 of the green book shows the trip bank. Item 16 appears to be the 'reset cam adapter' and might be the right part? Regardless, perhaps the exploded diagram will completely rule out bingo parts.

#4 3 months ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

http://bingo.cdyn.com/paper/
Pg 38-39 of the green book shows the trip bank. Item 16 appears to be the 'reset cam adapter' and might be the right part? Regardless, perhaps the exploded diagram will completely rule out bingo parts.

It looks like On Beam can lock part of the reset shaft so not all relays get reset every time the motor runs. The clutch allows part of the shaft to keep turning. Unless there's a bingo that does that, it's a unique pinball part. The reset cams look the same and would probably work in a pinball that needed them. I'll try to repair mine, and keep looking for a replacement!

#6 3 months ago

Hmmm, we must be blocked from seeing those documents in the US. Can you post a screen shot of it somehow?

#7 3 months ago

I was able to view it.

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#8 3 months ago

I was able to view it.

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#9 3 months ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

I was able to view it.[quoted image]

Looks close, but not quite like my photos. Is there another later catalog that shows it?

#10 3 months ago

hi
i think you can find such part on bally rocket III.
bally use this clutch to drive some "palette"(action lever ?) during start sequence. it drive shaft only one sense, then stop the shaft.
i'm not at home before two days, but i can send pics on my game when i return.
my trouble was a little pin hurt the spring and blessed it.
the shaft is in two parts, and first shaft stop rotate when it make one turn, and second shaft is always turning.
and first "palette" is different than others, as you can see it on your picture.
(sorry for bad english...)
the right axial position is important to obtain good clutching, there is a hole where spring enter to stop rotate.

#11 3 months ago

possible steve young could obtain these part (spring)
let me know if you need some pics.
i could carefully repair my spring
gilles

#12 3 months ago

I'm familiar with this mechanism on my Rocket III too, which is a clutch version separating a group of feature light relays from reset functions. On Beam differences are covered in the 1971 parts catalog, you need Flash to view in your browser (still works in Chrome), which is being generally withdrawn so hopefully other versions of these manuals are out there.

There's also some general service info in the Bally "Introduction to Flipper Games" manual.

http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/BLY_Parts_1971/index.html#/52/zoomed

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#13 3 months ago
Quoted from astyy:

I'm familiar with this mechanism on my Rocket III too, which is a clutch version separating a group of feature light relays from reset functions. On Beam differences are covered in the 1971 parts catalog, you need Flash to view in your browser (still works in Chrome), which is being generally withdrawn so hopefully other versions of these manuals are out there.
There's also some general service info in the Bally "Introduction to Flipper Games" manual.
http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/BLY_Parts_1971/index.html#/52/zoomed
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Thanks everyone, I did get Flash to work so I could see the 1971 Bally parts catalog on planetarypinball that astyy just showed. You can see that the clutch for On Beam is unique, unfortunately! It looks like the Rocket III clutch has no cams on it. Bally part number A-3379-1, Clutch Assy is the correct part with two "cam"-looking things, I think one is a cam and the other is the stop. Bowl-O uses A-3379, which the catalog says is "similar in appearance". So, it's unobtanium until someone makes one. I'll try to fix mine for now unless someone has one lying around in their parts box!

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#14 3 months ago

This thread has got me thinking how does the clutch work, how is the clutch state controlled when the trip relay motor starts? I can't work it out from my Rocket III schematic.

Either way, good luck with the restore, I'd love an On Beam next to Rocket III, if you have one "good" part of the clutch perhaps you can get it 3D print duplicated as somebody mentioned above.

#15 3 months ago

It looks like a clean break. Probably the thinner area gave way from spring pressure. I would remove it, clean it and epoxy it back together. If your careful, you might be able to thicken that area along the edge of that break without interfering with the switches. I've had good success doing things like this with JB Weld.

4 weeks later
#16 85 days ago

I managed to thrash my arthritic fingers into making a CAD model of the On Beam clutch assembly. Once I get the dimensions all tweaked in, I'm going to get some parts 3D printed! Right now, I only need the larger plastic cam piece (far left) to get my machine running, but I want to be able to reproduce the entire clutch assembly (both plastic cams and the steel clutch). The steel spring clutch is a neat simple design...I was able to get my seized-up one disassembled and cleaned up, but the spring is unsprung - might be able to rewind it. I'd love to repro the spring also, and have the whole assembly available.
I will post again when I get parts

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#17 85 days ago

Please keep us updated! Thanks for your effort!

2 weeks later
#18 72 days ago

Update on the On Beam clutch rebuild project: 3D printed parts are supposed to be here Monday...I'll install and test them as soon as they get here. I will post a full report showing how to disassemble/assemble the clutches, and the various problems I've encountered and tried to solve.
If you saved your 3D glasses from Pinball Life, check out this 3D view of the On Beam clutch assembly. The part in the foreground of the first picture that's sticking out of your screen is the one I am getting Monday. I will be making at least a small batch of all parts including the spring - there are actually five parts to be repro'd in the assembly, plus a snap ring which we can buy or reuse. I also added a poll to this thread to get an idea how many of each part people might be needing. Stay tuned!
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#19 72 days ago

A view of the assembly without the 3D effect in case you have no red/cyan glasses:

No3DClutchAssy (resized).png
#20 72 days ago

Following closely. I ran into this unobtanium part just a month or two ago.

#21 69 days ago

<tired> Got my 3D-printed parts today and assembled my two On Beam clutches...I think they will work. The spring is a real pain if it has been unsprung like mine was. I got it rewound close enough that the clutch works. The other spring was fine, so now I have 2 working clutches!
The spring has to be just right for the clutch action to work. I spent all day messing with the things, and really got my hands sore...friggin' arthritis is a bitch.
The 3D-printed parts did need a little razorblade scraping to fit, but overall they were damn close. They look like they will be plenty strong for the application.
I used FreeCAD to model the parts, and sent .STL files to JawsTec in Idaho for printing. Only beef I have is how long it takes to get the parts. You can get materials and processes that aren't generally available for home 3D printing. I used MJF (Multi Jet Fusion) Nylon for these. They also have ABS, which I'm trying on some other parts, and other materials including sintered metals. Pretty awesome technology. I used to use 3D printed parts in my engineering days in the 90s, but they were not useable as "real" parts, only as models...the material was too fragile.
(black parts are the new 3D-printed outer cams)

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#22 69 days ago

Played a couple games of On Beam today! Game has a few minor issues, but the reset bank clutches are working fine. Both are using the 3D printed outer cams. Fun game with a unique backglass animation that gives you points and lights the extra ball...
Here's a picture of the complete reset bank cam assembly before I installed it. I'm very familiar with the assembly and operation of this unit now if anyone has any questions - hopefully I can help others get their clutches fixed.

20191210_101335.jpg
#23 65 days ago

Received more Unobtanium in the mail today
Next step is to take the reset assembly apart again and replace the remaining original parts with these. My originals weren't broken, so I'll save those as prototypes/spares. Then I'll play a lot of On Beam to see how the new parts hold up!

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#24 65 days ago

I'm glad this worked out! It provides hope for other miscellaneous parts that are no longer available. Good work.

#25 64 days ago

The shape of things to come...On Beam Reset Cam Assembly v2.0. Cam surfaces widened for more strength. Allowances made for 3D printing fill-in of small details. Hopefully will be awesome.

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