(Topic ID: 49344)

Bally Playboy Restore


By rufessor

6 years ago



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  • Latest reply 38 days ago by jj44114
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There are 200 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 4.
#51 5 years ago

CPR PF IMG_0859.JPG IMG_0860.JPG IMG_0861.JPG IMG_0862.JPG

#52 5 years ago

More CPR PF

IMG_0863.JPG IMG_0864.JPG IMG_0865.JPG

#53 5 years ago

CPR PF last set. For most of these pics, I a probably holding the camera at about a 30 degree angle.

if there are any different shots you need, let me know.

Man, I love digital photography; Instant gratification at its finest.

IMG_0866.JPG IMG_0868.JPG IMG_0869.JPG

#54 5 years ago

Your awesome- Thanks SO MUCH!

I spent last night and a little bit today working on prep to clear the top once, which means that I needed to basically clean the rollover insert which means taking out the rollover star. I was very very nervous about this, these parts I really really want to keep original because the colors just look so great after 40 years. But plastic brittles after 40 years.

I got going on that which lead to the next and what do you know, I got every insert cleaned and polished with Novus 2 from below. I used an exacto to scrape hundreds of little tiny "sap" droplets off the grey pain on the underside of the playfield and scrape up aged old goo around the edges of the through holes (actually this was minor, but present variably. I ended up basically finishing by cleaning throughly including all light sockets. I still have mechanical to do, and did not take apart and clean any assemblies, but its taped up so no through holes exist and I was AMAZED at how well the roll over start and everything else came out. I need to get some epoxy to hit the inserts with, but I will NOT be popping them out, none are remotely loose so I will rim them with the play field suspended above me so I can get a nice bead around them and the wood without it dripping into the plastics... ANyhow, next post should be a clear coated top ready for true art work restoration.

Check out how clear the rollover is and how clean that star came out (its through a zip loc bad- the picture) and the underside is not bad at all.. I may or may not touch up grey- its very minor with a few wear spots but looks great this way and its orignial so probably leave it alone.

RollOver_Insert.jpg RollOVer_STar.jpg BottomPF_readyForClear.jpg

#55 5 years ago

The sad part of this, it literally took me over 1.5 hours to clean the star roll over insert, possibly more. I was using a very fine xacto to pick out the hundreds of globbed on dirt particles in the smallest corners until I could not see any more dirt...

#56 5 years ago

Got the top completely sanded with 600 grit until the shine came off- I especially focused on every plastic insert and hit it with 600 grit until it was very smooth and dull so the clear will bond there and also so that any scratches that might have been there are now removed. This ended up working real well, I might have very very slightly degraded a few of the numbered inserts but these will be trivial to bring back to new with a hand retouch.

Finally got a bottle of plastic epoxy and will glue up inserts and then spray it. That should happen this weekend- Will post pic of this when the initial clear coat is done and then of course as the restore occurs with the paint. Until then- anxious to have this finished so I can get this thing done and move on to mechanical on the play field parts while also working on the head. There is a structural problem with the top trim piece- I have it removed and got all the staples out without further damage. Planning on using a few dowels to pin it with liberal glue. Then bondo to smooth and repaint all white.

#57 5 years ago

lot of work in front of you, take your time, pictures and make sure you don't forget anything.

your playfield is pretty ruff but you can do it.
i did a playboy myself (thread here on pinside) but was fortunate to get a cpr, what i did with the old one was an overlay for a friend, turns out pretty good.
i also have a spare decal for the middle section of the playfield and other areas.

if you clear the playfield when you are done, you gonna have to re-work that roll over star insert with a small file so you roll over star fit in it.

good luck with the resto, keep us posted.

#58 5 years ago

I am indeed going to be clear coating over the art work that I restore, likely 2 coats unless something goes wrong and I need a third but this should not occur. I indeed may need to do that, but no big deal, hoping to keep the clear really thin to avoid these types of issues. I kinda went about "widening" the insert pre clear by sticking some 600 grit folded up in between all the points of the star in the insert and sanding until smooth. This I hope will be enough else you have to be very careful not to dull the clear on the surface after its all done!!!!!

I will also remove any clear from the initial coat that gets in there... so I think I should be good.

I had seen your thread, I spent a while going through as many play boy threads as I could to see what people had been doing,. Yours came out absolutely superb. It looked like you had ended up salvaging the old lockdown bar, but it came out very nice. What did you do to polish it? I have ended up using a drill with a polishing pad and coarse, medium, and fine cut compounds for metal polishing, but its impossible (nearly so) to do this well on a part with as many contours and ins and outs as that.... would you mind telling me what you did to bring it back? Looks awesome.

My cabinet thankfully is in awfully good shape structurally, with some paint work needed but nothing major. Whew... Yours came out great, the gloss white looked great. I will be repainting the front of the head (whats behind the glass) as mine is faded with wood grain and dirt showing through... The rest I will have to match colors but thankfully my cabinet is not faded much at all...

#59 5 years ago

this is what i did for the lockdown bar.

started with, 100, 180, 280, 320, 400, 600 at this point it's pretty smooth, 800, 1200 with water, 1500 with water. this is very important exactly in that order. always in the same direction!
and after that, polishing pad, high speed drill but be carefull not to over heat the area, you'll know when to stop.

so i did that for the lockdown bar.
for the Lockdown Bar Receiver Assembly i used the following but didn't went crazy with the sand paper and came out nice.

934.jpg wire-brushes-300x300.jpg circular-abrasive-nylon-brush-for-clea.jpg

#60 5 years ago

Sweet-

I have all that stuff... I admit to having forgot how well my wire brushes worked (and that I even had them!!!) on the legs of my gottlieb SuperSpin, and didn't think to pull those out for the job at hand... Thats why I start thinking about what I need to do and ask Q's before I do it... cause I don't do this all the time and forget little bits and pieces of what the heck I am supposed to do!

THANKS!

1 week later
#61 5 years ago

Some progress has been made-

I got the play field completely ready for clear took pics of how I set it up, the gun I used, and what it looks like after a single coat on top of a Magic Eraser/Isopropanol cleaned play field that was Novus-2 polished (as an additional cleaning step) and then 600 grit dry sanded (no water on wood!!!) as a prep for clear.

Here is what I did PRIOR to clear coating.

Inspect EVERY insert for dirt and remove with whatever means necessary. I do this on the top and the bottom since you cannot always tell where the dirt is so I just deal with the bottom and the top together even though the clear only (duh) hits the top. I then lightly sanded the roll over star insert in between the edges of the star cutout in the insert to remove dirt stuck there and to ensure it operates silky smooth when its done.

I went over EVERY insert with a light under it and sanded with 600 grit until I could not see any scratches deeper than the sand paper was making and ensured it looked good wet. There were two inserts with "defects" in them, I discovered they were deeper scratches (maybe even shallow cracks) that had filled with what I am guessing was wax build up. It was a white material I could pick out with a fine Xacto razor. I got one to the point that I had a now relatively deep (mm or so) scratch but one that was clean and when wet would look the same color as the rest. The other insert, of course its the ONLY one you look directly through when playing, the one right down at the center of the flippers- had a crack/scratch that was deeper and I did not feel comfortable digging much more than a few mm down to remove the wax/gunk build up for fear of cracking it. This one had two or three problem areas- so I took it as far as I felt I could then simply left it. The defects are now really minor but if I tell you they exist and back light it and you look for them you will see them.

Once I had the inserts where I wanted it, I lightly sanded with 600 grit again over the entire play field ensuring that every insert was hit well across the entire surface (so the clear has some thing to grab) as well as ensuring that every inch of the play field was dulled. I inserted old bulbs into the exposed sockets and propped the play field up on 2x6 decking stood on edge with moving blankets on top of a small table, then drapped moving blankets over the 2x6 and put the play field on that, stuffing exposed ends with additional blankets to ensure NO CLEAR could get at the underside. I lightly sanded and cleaned the edges of the play field being sure that no tape was on that and fully sealed any metal pieces (such as the hangers) with tape.

This got me to here. I used the windshield washer bottles to ensure the 2x6 decking would stand up- anything I didn't care about getting a little clear coat on would have worked well, these happen to fit tightly between the rim of the table and the 2x6 so it worked out. I then used a air gun tip to blast the surface of the play field with high pressure air to clean it off, as well as hitting the blankets just to be sure no crap came up with the HVLP gun air volume.

The HVLP gun I use is one I have been using for a number of years in furniture restoration/building and pinball work. I have sprayed a lot of different material with this including base tints, laquers, 2-part urethane clears etc...

For this coat, I wanted a really THIN layer- just thick enough to lay flat on a good surface- I was NOT trying to begin leveling much of the play field. Thats not a good idea for the first coat for a lot of reasons- you never know whats going to happen with too much solvent on top of crappy old paint...

So- I mixed up a cup of clear, set the gun to about a 4 inch fan width and a pretty low material feed rate running the gun at 80 PSI air. I sprayed it real quick single pass, inspected and hit the shooter lane again (I wanted to build a little thickness here so I could sand it a little harder to make it perfect early on) as well as areas that were down to wood as the clear was absorbing in a little bit there and any where that looked like it was so thin that it was not going to level right.

That resulted in the last pic,

Still wet- but now "dust free" about 15 mins after spraying.

I think this came out about "perfect" for what it was supposed to be, a thin working coat that I could wet sand to somewhat level and provide for a substrate for acrylic air brush work.

PF_readyforClear_PRErestore.jpg HVLP_gun.jpg CLEARPF_PRErestore.jpg

#62 5 years ago

Here are some closer shots of some of the regions after the clear coat.

The next morning (about 14 hours after clear coat) I wet sanded the entire play field with 600 grit sand paper to begin the very first part of leveling this thing. There is a lot of work to be done in getting this to be a mirror flat surface, but after wet sanding I was surprised at how much is now looking at least closer to level. The 3-4 coats of paint I will be spraying to fill and repair will help fill yet more into the low spots but eventually this is going to take a careful hand and a few more coats.

The first coat used 1/4 cup of material MAX. I cleaned my gun material reservoir out and pulled pretty much 3/4 cup of the clear out and that does not cover what was in the lines etc, so this entire play field was coated with less than 1/4 cup of material.

Here are the close up shots of the shooter lane, I am pretty happy with this, no way a 1987 game in this shape is going to come back to new without taking out a lot of material, so to get it this good without gouging out the shooter lane made me happy. I had done more work with touching up the black on the mansion and the two small girls, you can still see areas of color I need to fill but honestly, this region is looking pretty good all ready- It will be as close to perfect as I can make it soon but here is the "best" part of the game after the first clear coat.

The bonus looks terrible! But the more I look, the more I am sure this is going to come out sweet! Now I have some serious motivation to start on the acrylics.

CLEAR_shooter_PRErestore.jpg CLEARPF_PRErestore_bonus.jpg CLEAR_PRErestore_mansion.jpg

#63 5 years ago

THANKS for the pics of the girls around the mansion, I made a few changes to my touch up of the right eyebrow on the blond and now it looks awesome. I cannot wait to get started but sadly will be delayed a few weeks with other things on the calendar. Oh well- updates in a few weeks when i can get back at this.

Those pics are odd orientation in the post but if you click on them they come up in a window and orient correctly... I hate that! Oh well

#64 5 years ago

Great work rufessor, looks like that clear came out exactly how you wanted it to, and how you got this machine is a perfect place to learn more about restoring, thanks for posting your work, it gives me more ideas and tips for when I decide to restore one of my machines. Looking forward to the next stage in the process when you get back to it.

#65 5 years ago

http://www.classicplayfields.com/photo69.html In case you didn't see this. High res photos on CPR site. I used these when restoring mine.

#66 5 years ago

Thanks- I knew about those... only issue is I am not really trying to restore a CPR play field... thats why I had asked for photos (nicely provided!!) of an original. I can see many alterations between the original and the CPR just looking at mine so I will not be using CPR photos to retouch this. I was actually surprised at some of the minor details they alter, I guess its not really supposed to be a 1 copy, their artists presumably hand draw these based upon on original but I doubt they are much interested in making it a perfect copy- one could simply scan them and be done (but for the legalities of then selling such a product).

Anyhow-

I wanted to post a photo of what it looks like after I have finished wet sanding this first coat of clear. The idea here is to nearly sand through the coat so you bring down the major part of the surface to a nearly uniform flat surface. The low regions will still look shiny since i block sanded they do not get hit by the paper so they still have the shine. Here is a typical region, its looking a LOT better than I even thought I would get after a thin first coat. The next coat (after paint is done) will be another thin one, and yet more sanding continuing to slowly fill in the low spots until I get it perfect. I bet I am looking at about 3-4 top coats to get this level--- but if each one is super thin and well sanded it should not build all that much overall in thickness, just fill and level. Anyhow, time to paint, and paint some more.

WetSand_PRErestore.jpg

3 weeks later
#67 5 years ago

Alright, some progress has been made.

First- Although I was apprehensive about the time it would take to accurately cut Frisket on the play field to do things like re paint the black 5 "Keys" playboy bunny that is over the top of the inserts along the top and right in front of the first pop bumper. Yeah, it took me a couple hours to cut it, minutes to spray it twice and heat gun it- 30 seconds to pull it and it looks perfect.

Do not hesitate, I have done an entire game painstakingly by hand once before, USE frisket.

Tip from my very early experience, if your painting black and do NOT want to erode an otherwise good line into white, just cut shy of the white that way when you pull the frisket if your line is uneven its only the new black going over the old thats shaggy, no way that shows up whereas if you bleed out into the white you now have an obvious bleb.

And, although I have pics I am going to wait cause I want to get more done and I think I am close...

I got my adobe illustrator file for the bonus graphic done, I think its probably damn close to a 1 perfect reproduction of the black stencil for that region. Here is a pic.

If ANYONE has a good ORIGINAL GAME!! NOT A CPR!!!!!

Can you look at the relative thickness of the lines real carefully and let me know if I have it right. Hard to tell from my play field and the pics I find on line are all skewed. Its within a point but if you find anything that looks even slightly off let me know.

Here is a pic of that file, laid on top of a perspective corrected and scale perfect (as near as I could get it which is less than 1/64 of an inch off over an 11 inch run, at least thats what it was comparing the scale between a ruler laid on the play field in the pic and the ruler in Illustrator and Photoshop as I corrected perspective. Every line is dead straight in the image but for the very top right and if you look carefully my outline is a tiny different on the top right as compared to top left, but my art work is ever so slightly off and I need this to match...

Plan is to attempt cutting this, which is probably a disaster because nothing will hold together after I cut the black... so I will probably do this in 3-4 stencils, just remove stuff until I can see it holding together after cutting the frisket and then try it out.

I hope to get this stencil cut on my Silhouette Cameo cutter this weekend, I will post pics after the disaster or success regardless.

Bonus_CUT_OUTLINEjpg.jpg Bonus_CUT_file.jpg

#68 5 years ago

Holy Sweetness Batman-

I printed a copy on our printer and just ran down and put it on the play field, it looked good, so I used a scissors to cut out a few areas to reveal if its in fact matching up and near as I can tell its perfect, good enough to paint!!!!!

However, its seriously going to suck to figure out how to cut a useable stencil... trial and error I guess.

I did note that right in the middle above the SUPER BONUS wording I have a very slight protrusion of one line segment across another. Will fix before cutting, but looks good enough to at least attempt cutting frisket.

ALSO, Please note, since I am restoring I built the stencil to cover mostly only parts of my bonus area that are badly damaged or entirely gone. So, if you notice that I do not cover certain areas its because they don't need this level of repair in my game. So its not supposed to be 100% complete. Although it is 100% complete right across the top... the words "super bonus" on my game are GONE.
However, there was enough of the S and the U of SUPER to get the font size and placement perfect, and enough of the S of the BONUS to get that aligned... so the words should really really look exactly correct down to even minor details.

Again- VERY MUCH appreciate criticism and commentary on what this graphic is missing or not doing well. Again, DO NOT LOOK AT A CPR play field to compare this too, its is NOT from a CPR, they are different from the original in MANY MANY ways when you start really really looking very carefully so I am absolutely certain that this would not work on a CPR. And also, since these are stenciled, this matches what are likely misalignments from perfection that exists on my play field so if the outlines are slightly different on your play field (the black circles around the inserts) its likely they are different on almost every game at least subtly. I am concerned with the relative THICKNESS of the lines for the graphics. On my game I have very little to go with but for broken up segments here and there across the top, so if you see that I have a thick line where it should be thin or other issues I would very much appreciate knowing this before I paint it.

Oh some buried trivia for ya... The words SUPER BONUS use the following font.

Grenoble Serial Extra Bold -with a high degree of accuracy, it cannot actually be that, cause that font was not around in 1978 but its a damn near perfect match. Kinda Amazing really...

#69 5 years ago

Discovered that I may be able to actually cut this all in one pass, and using transfer paper, place the stencil onto the play field and spray.

Unsure if transfer paper will work for Frisket but its good with vinyl so guessing that it will have enough tack to hold the cut stencil in place so that I can remove all the cut areas, then I guess you peel off the backing to expose adhesive, and carefully align stencil, press in place and peel up the transfer paper and the frisket *should* remain in place!

Going to find some clear transfer paper...

anyone done this before?

#70 5 years ago

I would print that on some Laser Waterslide Decal and just do it all at once.

With such a large decal, I would cut it into sever sections to make easier to maneuver.

You may want to get your clear flat, before doing any decals, though.

#71 5 years ago

Yeah... flat would be a requirement for a decal and there is basically no way I could get this all to line up if I cut 5 different stencils and then tried to do this in 5 passes... it would look terrible...

Since I went ahead and purchased the cutter and kinda want to make this work- for now... I am going to stick with the idea of a stencil. I have been reading some forums in the art world and in the sign world and I *think* this might work. I am taking from the vinyl sign industry standard practice... which is to cut a complex design out of vinyl, apply a transfer tape to the entire design from the top, remove the cut sections then peel off adhesive backing from desired cut design and using transfer paper place the whole thing all at once, peel off transfer paper and the fancy cut vinyl is left stuck to the surface ... since I have a stencil its the same principal but instead of vinyl I will be cutting a negative outline of the design....

I have come up with this as a general work flow..

1) Gently press the frisket down onto the low tack rubber cutting sheet for the cutter, this will hold the frisket in place (adhesive backing down) during the cut. Then cut the design all at ONCE.

2) Reduce the tack on ANOTHER intact frisket sheet by lightly adhering it to a cotton T-shirt.

3) Apply the reduced tack FRISKET sheet over the TOP of the cut frisket stencil still on the rubber cutting sheet. Then pull the whole thing (still in one piece held together by the top sheet) off the cutting mat and turn it over exposing the adhesive mask of the cut stencil.

4) using a tweezers/forceps/razor REMOVE the cut out "black" sections of the design- the TOP intact frisket sheet should hold the rest in place.

5) Remove the adhesive backing exposing full strength adhesive on cut stencil sheet still being held together in precise alignment by the top sheet of frisket

6) Apply to play field carefully aligning.

7) pull off top - here is where I need to hope that the cut frisket stencil sticks to the sanded clear coated play field well, so that pulling off the top sheet will not peel up the stencil in sections... and paint...

I am doing this, maybe tonight... probably this weekend.. next post will be results.

#72 5 years ago

Take lots of pictures!

#73 5 years ago

OK... I could not resist one more post even though its not yet painted.... thats in about 3 hours.

I tested the cutter last night with a mostly complete file.

This thing is AMAZING.

Using Frisket, I can set the speed and cut depth of the knife to COMPLETELY cut the frisket and leave the backing untouched. I then tested the ability to cover the top of the cut frisket with another intact sheet, removing the backing to see if it would then expose the completely cut sheet, or if it would pull out crap tons of the stencil ruining it.

It WORKS. This is going to be amazing.

I then decided that the easiest way to do this, is to paint the entire region (maybe mask off some of the good graphics) white (color matched to the rest of the game) and THEN hit it with black and the stencil.

I then decided that there was little sense in dealing with hand touchups and registration issues (there are not any, but precise alignment will be tough)- so I extended the SVG file I am making to include the entire bonus region!

Here is the file I will be cutting and stenciling tonight!

Although I am posting this here, the quality is not going to be sufficient for anyone to really reproduce this. If this works, and there is any interest I may be willing to cut stencils for people for a reasonable fee and send two sets. Since or the most part, these games wear here and in the Grotto, and the Grotto is easy to touch up and also not right in your face, this may solve 99% of the wear issues on many existing play fields.

Bonus_CUT_file.jpg

#74 5 years ago

Dude - I don't know how the Frisket works, but this stuff works great. http://www.signwarehouse.com/p-VOR813-2410-STMSKB.html The Cameo cuts it right out of the box while leaving the backing intact. Don't even need the cutting board. Then apply it with this - http://www.signwarehouse.com/p-AP-AT60-12.html

This is what I use for sign making at work and also used it to make my own stencils to repaint my 6M$M. I don't know what the price comparison is, but it seems reasonable. Just another option. Anxiously waiting to see how your hard work turns out!

#75 5 years ago

AWESOME-

I was seriously hoping someone like you would wander in. I am actually cutting my second attempt at the full stencil right now... watching it cut now. The first one I slowed the blade down thinking it would do a better job. Turns out it cuts deeper (I guess the blade "floats" a little at a higher speed) and then my cutting mat is new and so sticky that its pulling the backing off the frisket! Oh well... a few swipes on the shirt and a faster blade speed and we try again.

I will seriously look at that if this is more than an evening of screwing around. THANKS a TON>

#76 5 years ago

Just a quick pain in the ass break...

Cutting frisket is easy, pulling the cut pieces out is a PITA- without killing the rest. The transfer film makes this easier but currently the frisket is sticking WAY to hard to the stencil. I need a very very very light tack.. may baby powder frisket FIRST to use as transfer film... I may be moving to a new material... last try for the night soon.... using baby powder.

#77 5 years ago

This is as much a note to myself as it is useful to anyone but someone doing this exactly...

But my best Frisket cut by far is speed 6 depth 3 blade setting 2

Using speed 2 depth 3 blade 2 cut through the paper
Using speed 4 depth 3 blade 2 did it a little
Using speed 4 depth 2 blade 2 didn't cut through every section of the frisket

Speed 6 depth 3 seems better... now if the baby powder works I might actually paint something tonight... else it will be new material. The cutting is perfection, so its just a matter of finding something that will work- overhead transparency material comes to mind as well as what was mentioned prior...

#78 5 years ago

Weeding IS a huge pita but it's worth it when the stencil is awesome. Yup, lots of experimenting to find the settings that work. And of course, different settings for different materials. Doing some of that myself this weekend.

#79 5 years ago

Ok... so I got a perfect stencil cut, got it weeded to almost perfection (lost two tiny frags but could have re cut them alone) only to discover that I was off by 1/8 inch in height for the very top of the bonus area (which was not in the picture I had taken so I made it up knowing it needed to be checked). I also had one word too close to an edge and it cut into the edge so made two corrections, and now have a weeded 99% correct stencil and its totally completely 100% on- absolute perfection as near as I can tell in terms of where the black lines are and the cut segments on the stencil and all other features. Now, I think I need new material. There seems no hope for such a complex fine detailed piece with frisket. I need something i can almost smear around until finally aligning it and then letting it set. I wonder if I could spray the clear coated sanded play field with water and use that as a lubricant to float and align the cut stencil.... will see and fool around until I get this, but at least its going to be 100% when I finally get one on and mounted.

However, this is totally worth it, Once I figure this out I will be cutting them for everything, its so easy.... if I can just get them mounted on the play field. I can always do this in pieces but currently dont see that actually helping a lot, frisket is floppy... new material will likely make my life a lot easier so probably bail out for the weekend and sand the shooter lane... although I posted a pic and said it looked OK for a 78 game- upon further reflection it looked like crap. Taking it down to full wood grain only, I will even it out for depth manually, but it needs to look perfect or close. So... something to keep me busy.

#80 5 years ago

YES YES YES!

I got a perfect stencil cut, pulled the backing off leaving the entire thing intact. I tested using water to float the firsket on the play field and it seems to work. Will be misting entire play field (remember its clear coated so no harm) with Reverse Osmosis/Deionized water (to avoid even any bit of residue) and floating this sucker over the top. Cross your fingers but its looking superb so far.

I was chicken little when it came to painting the entire graphic area white until I had faith that this would work, but no turning back now. I mixed up a pure white (which is to stark white compared to the faded colors I am otherwise matching) adding some orange and some sand color. Its really white compared to whats the current faded white but looks too yellow to me compared to true white, so I am going to add in another 1/3 of pure white and spray it. This way the white will be pretty stark but just aged enough looking to match the rest of the colors, which now means I will be repainting every segment of white on this game... oh well.

Black is now almost complete. I have a few more small areas to cut and will spray it all at once but once I get the white over the graphic (Bonus region- only spraying where its either white or black, not going over the colors) and then float and spray the decal I will post pics.

Excited now.

#81 5 years ago

rufessor,, I hope you are taking lots of progress pics to show us. I am getting excited for you, too.

Me? I finally got around to waxing my play field and keep busy with playing my PB and learning its nuances. I am going to have to clean and replace some light sockets, but I have some bonus lights that are not getting voltage that I need to figure out before I go father.

#82 5 years ago

I so wish I was waxing a play field...

Two things-

The stencil worked reasonably well, but for the lettering I would call it extremely good

I had to completely remove every bit of paint that I applied cause in an effort to float the stencil using water so that I could align it... I discovered that the glue on the frisket is water soluble (at least a little) and it comes off the frisket and leaves a nice thick layer of glue on the play field after I lifted the stencil- Which only came off with GOO Gone.

However, I learned a number of things and will make some subtle adjustments to the stencil in Adob Illustrator. I also learned a number of things about cutting SVG files, in particular that you get or can get strange alignment issues (where it cuts a good distance from the line) depending on which settings you use in saving the file...

So- I am done for now, not going to use Frisket. I need a semi rigid stencil material with almost a pressure sensitive adhesive. Going to a few local sign shops to speak with the pros.

Totally unsure how this is going to turn out, the lettering may have to be done with water slide decals. But I think I can get the graphics perfect with some more experimentation. Its now clear that I likely could have done this by hand at least as quickly and I even started to do so but decided I want to give this one more solid try with the right material because if I can get it to work its MUCH easier than doing it by hand. However, paying the price for "innovation" and learning new stuff now... TIME>

#83 5 years ago

Ok... got some real stencil material- Recommendation from a sign shop and a guy doing high end automotive paints (really amazing stuff) was-

Gerber 15 SM-4 GERBERMASK 1 ULTRA

This is a white 3M (I think- branded as GERBER) low tack stencil material. Its WAY stiffer than Frisket which should greatly aid in stretch distortion and I hope in the lettering details.

I could not get the blue product recommended by prior post but this should be very similar although not transparent which in this instance is fine, all I want to do is line up the existing black art work with the stencil which is to reproduce the black, so if I can see it through the cut out I know I am good everywhere else. Since I want to go over the top (I don't think I want to re do the entire thing) and preserve the existing color this should be well more than good enough.

Then I got the RTape Clear Transfer tape (as recommended by above and confirmed to be product that indeed the shop and the auto guy both also use with the GERBER stencil material I puchrased)

And a 32 oz bottle with a spray applicator that is designed to float the stencil over the surface (while not dissolving the glue DOH) enabling my aligning it before it sticks down (which failed miserably with Frisket)...

This should go much smoother.

All in all- a giant PITA but there is no way I see to do this other than totally bail out and just throw on a decal which would not match the rest of the play field colors... This may yet happen but obviously I am willing to learn and try (or try to learn) new things... so we shall see. For sure not going to be purchasing more stuff to try this... its now getting relatively expensive although aside from the purchase of the cutter I am not really that much into it, maybe 70 in materials and if I get this to work I can use them all over the place (especially on the cabinet).

#84 5 years ago

OK, the new material is a completely different story, it cuts better, it weeds like a dream, and I am regaining some confidence.

After spraying through the words as a test I noted that although the font I mentioned is the best match for whats on the play field, and it looks OK if you just see it on the screen, its no good on the play field.

So, I spent literally a few hours taking close up pics of the lettering and re-creating pixel by pixel (literally from shots from a Nikon D300) the lettering.... its 99 % done, I discovered I didn't get a shot of lettering with a "R" in it, so will do that and cut. Here is the difference, I think if you compare to prior, its much more obviously correct if you also look at a play field shot.

This- aside from the missing "R" is as perfect as I can make it, and will be cut.

I also made block stencils for all color, one for White, one for Blue, and one for Orange, these are also shown. I will spray the block colors (I masked off the good lettering that exists- as you can see), then the white and finally the black. Should have pics of everything by Sunday, regardless if I end up looking for another play field and bailing out or find success. Seriously considering the wisdom of bondo filling the cracks and wood regions so the stencils do not bleed... unsure how touchy that aspect is but would greatly suck to peel it up and find bleeds all over through the holes in the paint surface.
Pics order-

Black stencil with lettering - the "R"
Blue MASK for re painting blue regions (but not going over good lettering)
Orange Mask for re painting Orange regions (but not going over good lettering)

Bonus_FINAL_CUTfile.jpg BLUE_STENCIL.jpg ORANGE_Mask.jpg

#85 5 years ago

And the mask for the White regions

WHITE_Mask.jpg

#86 5 years ago

Getting there! Stay with it, dude, you have too much time invested to even think about quitting now! Glad the other products are working better for you.

#87 5 years ago

Ok... I think I am there-

Here is a photo of a full resolution full scale (play field 1) of the wording (the most difficult part) for
"SUPER BONUS" and two of the otherwise identical words "THOUSANDS". This is the wording in correct orientation and spacing for the top of the Bonus region. These have been cut on the Silhouette Cameo- settings were S5, T5, K3 (speed, thickness, knife)- then weeded and this is what it looks like.

For those ever interested, the post above is NOT a quality stencil, I made adjustments to everything one last time to get it all perfect. In particular weeding the lettering was problematic so I altered spacing a bit to get better cut resolution and here it is...

Word_Test_CUT_FINAL.jpg

#88 5 years ago

Here we go...
Stencils cut and weeded... maybe paint tomorrow...

How worried should I be about the chips and grain from the play field being in such poor condition. I was going to level with clear since its not deep.. but does anyone know about what happens here? Do I fill with bondo and sand level and just start over (avoiding text areas I am not stenciling)... or should I simply use the squeege and this material will hold fine????

I think its designed for smooth surfaces.. I will look it up and see if I can see what smooth means.

Here are the final products.

Black
Orange
White

Black_Weed_Stencil.jpg Orange_Weed_Stencil.jpg White_Weed_Stencil.jpg

#89 5 years ago

and Blue

Blue_Weed_Stencil.jpg

#90 5 years ago

They all look as good as the close up of the lettering. I had to change a few settings to stop it from tracing the inside and outside of the lettering which was 0.25 pt thick so it was kinda hosing them. I need it to cut the inside and outside edge of all the other black lines because I matched their thickness to the graphic... but for the letters I need it to trace ONLY... finally figure it out and got it right on the second stencil... that I had a small cut on I didn't realize would hit so I had to re-do it again... so after about 4 I had it dialed in and now can cut as many as I want... the solid color stencils are easy.. got those all on first try.

Weeding is PITA but doable- absolutely no missing pieces or rips or alignment issues or stretches... this is looking up...

#91 5 years ago
Quoted from rufessor:

How worried should I be about the chips and grain from the play field being in such poor condition. I was going to level with clear since its not deep.. but does anyone know about what happens here?

Once you have all the inserts glued and leveled, you spray the entire playfield with clear to lock down any loose paint/wood fibers and fill in any scratches.

This gives a surface that is ready to paint on.

#92 5 years ago

It will always cut both sides of a line. The trick I use is to fill any areas to be outlined in black.

#93 5 years ago

First

play field has been clear coated, I was speaking to the still existing grain and divots from the clear over the paint chips. it's probably so minor as to be not a concern.... Just want this to work out.

as for cutting. I actually figured out that in my software I can take elements from the SVG grouped as I left them in illustrator and individually select them and specify to cut only the outer edge! So I got it to work as well as it possibly could and the stencils look good. I bribed my wife with a glass of wine and she is helping me color match so depending on how it goes... May have pics soon

#94 5 years ago
Quoted from rufessor:

First

play field has been clear coated, I was speaking to the still existing grain and divots from the clear over the paint chips. it's probably so minor as to be not a concern.... Just want this to work out.

With all the effort you are putting into this playfield, I'd get rid of any planking, grain or divots before starting.

#95 5 years ago

I have a question... with a pic.

I got a pretty decent blue color match and sprayed the blue regions using the stencil shown above- and it worked out awesome. The stencil is exactly on, I did not move anything aside from simply floating and aligning the stencil and the bonus lights were perfectly aligned etc. The paint came out great and the stencil peeled off great. Then I did the yellow and the orange and reproduced something I have noticed before which leads me to the question.

If I spray and then dry with a heat gun, when I peel off the stencil I get the paint peeling up a bit and kinda stretching until it breaks along a lot of the edge, so I used a razor to cut the edges but this is not ideal. So from now on I probably will let it dry using a cool setting (not that I was getting it real hot) and really just blow air on it.

Is this indicating I am doing something wrong or going too hot or is it just what happens when you let the paint dry and then try to peel a stencil off. I think its this... cause most recommendations are that you let it dry until its just barely tack free then peel... and using a heat gun is probably taking it to far.

Second, color matching using the transparent colors is much harder to get right.

You HAVE to spray the EXACT shade of white your using as a base first, then spray your color mix, then let dry, THEN compare. Its totally useless to look at the match by painting over the top of the color you want to match...

So... I need to either remove the yellow, or go over the top again, cause its not right. The orange was worse and I peeled it as soon as the stencil came up.

Plan is- Stencils appear to be awesome, color match just needs to be run through correct work flow which I now have established (probably cause I read Vids guide and then didn't exactly read it just prior to doing... and screwed up but I learn better this way anyhow...)

As for planking etc. I agree and decided that I will be hitting it with bondo skim and then sanding to level, then hitting it with clear and then doing final stencil work. So yeah, this is taking forever, but I didn't know how to do much of this (never air brushed, never used frisket, never cut a stencil, never color matched with transparent colors) so its all adding up to a lot of learning but no damage has been done and I think its actually going to come together.

Only other Question-=

Seems like me transfer tape is holding onto the stencils a bit tight, but probably cause I am floating them and trying to pull transfer tape when its still wet so I guess I will just wait longer. Common?

Here is a pic of what happened to the blue paint after I pulled back the stencil for the yellow... ugh... I think I will hit it with a THICK coat of clear and sand using 200 Grit so the paint has something with some BITE to hold onto.

FirstTry_blockStencilsBONUS.jpg

#96 5 years ago

I've never had to float a stencil, so don't know what to tell you there. Looks like you're on a high learning curve and kicking its ass. The trick in my mind is getting it placed by peeling back two sides just enough to get them aligned with the existing work and then plant the rest. You are giving me ideas for the work I have coming up so thanks for that. (Gonna do the words and numbers as separate stencils and hit them individually. That way I only need one good sample of each "phrase.") Looks like all your work is close to paying off. Also, I would advise not setting the paint with heat until AFTER you have peeled the stencil off.

#97 5 years ago

Yeah.... I for sure learned NOT to set the paint with heat until AFTER you pull the stencil.

Thank god I clear coated this POS before I started all this painting. It makes starting over pretty painless.

I am going to pick up another quart of clear coat today, will very lightly bondo the real bad areas and hit the entire thing with a fairly heavy coat, then sand with 220 grit and try to finish this part off...

Its 50/50 at this point as to if it will look 100% when I am done, but its totally trashed now and came that way so I guess I can deal with whatever happens. I feel like I am for sure making progress- for now this is fun and I am enjoying learning. If it turns out well it will have all been worth it 10 fold.

#98 5 years ago

I have 4 old beat P/Fs I bought at TPF two years ago($100) for just this purpose. That way I'll never cry over spilt milk. I was going to say that it is possible that enough of a valley in the paint might let paint escape a stencil. I'll be facing just that problem with my Black Pyramid after I finish the current project. I did learn when I stenciled my 6M$M cab that the particular brand I use HAS to be shot in one piece. One of my earlier attempts was sized incorrectly so I cut it into 3 pieces and aligned them to the first stencil lines. I then used extra material to cover the "cracks." Bled like a stuck cow. Sandpaper! Stat!!

#99 5 years ago

HAHA- Stuck cow I have yet to experience but "Sandpaper! Stat!" is right in line with my experience.

I just read an interesting tidbit of knowledge... on a sign forum I found that people really suggest you use a paper transfer tape when floating a stencil with Rapid Tac (the floating solvent I am using) because it allows the rapid tac to dry, and even acts to suck up the extra into the paper. Thinking that although the Car graphics guy I got this suggestion from clearly can do this, at a very high level, using the material I have... for me, I am going to go buy a few feet of a semi sheer light tack paper transfer material. They even say that once its mostly dry you should hit the paper with the RapidTac material to throughly wet it, and then it peels off very easily- which is exactly what I need.

So-
I still need to get more clear coat-
I need to get paper transfer tape-

I need to get more than 1.5 hours at a time to work on this... I know it seems like a crap load of time- but in reality, although I did spend hours creating the stencil design and a few hours playing with and ruining a few stencils and removing paint, I really have yet to spend a decent chunk of time working, never can seem to get free anytime before about 9 pm....

Will report back on itteration 4 of this process- hopefully over the weekend. Really want this done- I am now looking forward to simple BRUSH work and fine details... wowo... I now consider that the easy part of this whole thing!

If I am lucky I can level, paint the block colors over the bondo and let it dry... probably unwise to shoot clear over acrylic for at least a day.

#100 5 years ago

Yeah, I understand about that time thing. A 1/2 hour here and a 1/2 hour there don't get it done. I was just able to repair the power board on my Earthshaker that fried a varistor two weeks ago. Meanwhile I have two restored Ballys that just need attention to minor problems and my main project, building an acrylic machine from the remnants of a water damaged Sonic Super Straight. March and the TPF seem to come faster every year...

MOST of the time on my 6M$M was cleaning up and detailing the image on the computer. The sides were really tore up and I wanted to get it right the first time. Untold hours getting carpal tunnel between a mouse and a draw pad!

IMG_4017.JPG leftwhite.jpg

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