(Topic ID: 265500)

Bally Playboy blow GI fuse after PF swap

By tomdrum

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 23 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by cysnake
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

IMG_1114.JPEG
IMG_1113.JPEG
IMG_1116.JPEG
IMG_1115.JPEG
DSCN6798 (resized).JPG
DSCN6797 (resized).JPG
#1 4 years ago

Just swapped a CPR PF into a Playboy. Game worked 100% beforehand. I ran a continuity check from the cabinet ground braid to the feature light and GI braid. Both showed continuity. Each feature lamp had continuity to the wire leading to the lamp board. I removed each lamp and the continuity disappeared to the lamp board. Finally pulled every GI lamp in the PF as well. Continuity still there to ground. Ideas anyone?

#2 4 years ago

Lamp socket shorted?

G.I. wires connected to the correct socket terminals?

Staple shorting a wire somewhere?

#3 4 years ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

Lamp socket shorted?
G.I. wires connected to the correct socket terminals?
Staple shorting a wire somewhere?

Every lamp socket is new. I posted here during the swap concerning GI lamp polarity and was told lamp orientation did not matter:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-playboy-gi-lamp-socket-polarity-during-pf-swap#post-5530138

#4 4 years ago

You are correct, the lamp socket orientation doesn’t matter.

But often times the AC power wires are connected at both ends of a string of lamps. Let’s say they are a red and a white wire. You have two separate wire braids running from socket to socket, correct?

If you connect the red wire to one end of one braid and the white wire to the other end of the same braid it will be a short.

With all of the bulbs removed, test continuity across the lamp sockets. You will easily identify the shorted string.

#5 4 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

You have two separate wire braids running from socket to socket, correct?

I installed new 1/4" braid for the GI and feature lamps running separately. The GI circuit in Playboy is in 4 separate quadrants. The main GI lights start at the top and run across the top under the arch plastics and then down each side. Pop bumpers are wired separately and the 2 slingshots are each powered separately.

The main GI circuit has 4 wires from the loom. I located them as wired from the donor PF. See pictures of the donor PF.

DSCN6797 (resized).JPGDSCN6797 (resized).JPGDSCN6798 (resized).JPGDSCN6798 (resized).JPG
#6 4 years ago

Measure continuity across the sockets from braid to braid. One of those strings has to be shorted.

#7 4 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Measure continuity across the sockets from braid to braid. One of those strings has to be shorted.

Having trouble wrapping my head around that. The GI circuit was ran with disregard to lamp polarity. What could it be shorted to? I did my continuity test with game off, nothing touching a switch etc.

#8 4 years ago

What about the lamp sockets in the bumpers ? Any of those touching the coil mounting bracket?

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from trilogybeer:

What about the lamp sockets in the bumpers ? Any of those touching the coil mounting bracket?

They are not hooked up. I clipped the leads to remove them from the equation.

#10 4 years ago

Do you still measure a short when you disconnect the playfield from the rectifier board?

Note: one G.I. wire is connected to ground at the rectifier board, the other G.I. wire connects to the transformer on a very very low resistance winding. The "short" you are now measuring might just be through the transformer G.I. winding which is normal.

So disconnect the playfield J1 connector off the rectifier board and remeasure for short circuits across the playfield lamp socket quadrants (presuming you've separated the quadrants from each other).

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

So disconnect the playfield J1 connector off the rectifier board and remeasure for short circuits across the playfield lamp socket quadrants (presuming you've separated the quadrants from each other).

Game is at another Pinsider WeatherbyMAG who did a pristine cabinet repaint. I did the PF for my buyer. I'll be over there tomorrow to test that.

#12 4 years ago

To add to what Quench said:

Looking at your pics above, with the playfield disconnected, put one ohmmeter lead on the orange wire and the other on the blue wire and see if you have a short.

Then put one lead on the red wire and the other on the white wire and check for a short.

Repeat for the other two quadrants.

#13 4 years ago

I pulled the J1 off the rectifier board and still had shorts. I clipped the power braid to isolate the left and right sides. Left side still had shorts. Found a bit of solder on one socket under the main loom. Removed that socket and figured that was it. Still had a short, down to just 5 sockets. Pulled the red GI wire out of the braid. Short gone. Plugged in the J1 and powered it up. Went to take a volt reading off the red wire to ground and the fuse blew. I assume now I have a dead short between that wire and the rectifier.

#14 4 years ago

Follow these instructions and you will be able to narrow it down. I had the same problem with my Fireball II swap and this helped me figure it out.

I had 2 of the braided ground wires stapled together that were supposed to be separate from each other, so maybe look for that. Hope this helps

Copied from fliperwinkle

Fuse F5 - General Illumination (G.I.) Fuse Woes.
There isn't much to this circuit, so if fuse F5 blows, this usually means there is a shorted general illumination bulb or socket. This is never a quick or easy fix - you'll have to do quite a bit of looking and eliminating to find the problem.

First, a good idea is to purchase a clip-on circuit breaker. Instead of replacing the F5 fuse for each test "power on", the circuit breaker can be reset and reused. This is great for G.I. problems and saves lots of money on fuses. Just clip the breaker onto the rectifier board's fuse clips with alligator test leads. A mini circuit breaker can be purchased from any lighting store.

To issolate the G.I. problems:

Remove connector J1 (playfield) and J3 (backbox) from the rectifier board, leaving J2 (cabinet wiring) connected. Power up. If fuse blows, there is a short in the main cabinet G.I. wiring (probably the coin door lamps).
If fuse doesn't blow, remove connector J1 (playfield) from rectifier board, leaving J2 (cabinet) and J3 (backbox) connected. Power up. If fuse blows, there is a short in the backbox GI wiring.
If fuse doesn't blow, remove connector J3 (backbox) from rectifier board, leaving J2 (cabinet) and J1 (playfield) connected. Power up. If fuse blows, there is a short in the playfield GI wiring.
Each time plug J1/J2/J3 is removed, that part of the G.I. circuit is removed. What ever plugs are left connected are the wiring sections being tested. If the short is in the cabinet wiring, this is easy to fix. Just examine the coin door lamps. If the backbox wiring is the problem, this too is fairly easy to examine. A very common problem here is the ground braid that connects the head to the backbox. This can bunch up and touch one of the lamp sockets on the back side of the insert (display) panel (when the insert panel is closed). Unfortunately the playfield G.I. is the most troublesome section.

Now that the offending section (playfield!) has been isolated, it is time to further isolate which strand of lamps has the problem. There are two G.I. lines in the game- red/white wires, and orange/green wires. Now find a strand (either one), and de-solder one of the lead wires to the strand (thus taking the strand out of circuit). If there is a double wire (double green, orange, red, white) on the strand, be sure to keep the double wire connected together once it's removed from the strand. This lets other strands "downstream" continue to have power. The basic idea is to disconnect a strand, power up, watch the fuse (or breaker), and repeat until you find the offending strand.

It's never easy or quick to find a problem like this, but this is about the only way to systematically find the short without pulling out every bulb or looking at every socket/wire.

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from timab2000:

It's never easy or quick to find a problem like this, but this is about the only way to systematically find the short without pulling out every bulb or looking at every socket/wire.

Thanks. Pretty much did that to locate the problem. I have a dead short in the red GI power supply wire to PF. I'll have to study the wire routing to find the issue.

#16 4 years ago

Looking a post 5. The GI wire is green not Blue. Blue is the switched illumination bus wire. If you have blue soldered to the GI bus then you would have problems for sure.

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

Looking a post 5. The GI wire is green not Blue. Blue is the switched illumination bus wire. If you have blue soldered to the GI bus then you would have problems for sure.

You are correct it is green. I was only looking at remaining nub on the donor PF.

#18 4 years ago

Here's where I'm at. I swapped in another transformer/rectifier to make sure it wasn't the board. It isn't. With the red GI wire removed from the PF the short is removed from the PF. I'm checking the PF red GI wire to the lower cabinet ground braid. It's showing continuity. The short doesn't show up until the J3 is plugged into the rectifier. I have since pulled the PF out of the cabinet to check the wiring loom. Without cutting 50 wire ties nothing looks damaged. I do have continuity from the red GI wire to the J1 connector red wire. I checked resistance thru that circuit and it matched the other wires that feed the feature lamps. I'm at wits end on this and would prefer not to cut the complete loom open.

11 months later
#19 3 years ago
Quoted from tomdrum:

Here's where I'm at. I swapped in another transformer/rectifier to make sure it wasn't the board. It isn't. With the red GI wire removed from the PF the short is removed from the PF. I'm checking the PF red GI wire to the lower cabinet ground braid. It's showing continuity. The short doesn't show up until the J3 is plugged into the rectifier. I have since pulled the PF out of the cabinet to check the wiring loom. Without cutting 50 wire ties nothing looks damaged. I do have continuity from the red GI wire to the J1 connector red wire. I checked resistance thru that circuit and it matched the other wires that feed the feature lamps. I'm at wits end on this and would prefer not to cut the complete loom open.

I had the identical issue when I did a playfield swap on a Playboy machine. If I plugged in J1 or J3 the fuse would blow. The resistance between TP4 and ground was 0 ohms even with the blown fuse (only when J1 or J3 were connected). What I found was that I had incorrectly connected (crossed) the GI Bus and GI Return lines on both the backbox and the playfield. Once I modified the connections so the Green wire was on the same line as the White wire, and the Red wire was on the same line as the Orange wire, everything worked fine. The reading was about 3 ohms between the lines with no bulbs installed, and the fuse didn't blow.

IMG_1113.JPEGIMG_1113.JPEGIMG_1114.JPEGIMG_1114.JPEGIMG_1115.JPEGIMG_1115.JPEGIMG_1116.JPEGIMG_1116.JPEG
#20 3 years ago

off topic, but where did you get those staples for the braid?

what brand gun is it if you don't mind me asking?

i like the narrow head as opposed to the original ones.

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from Rikoshay:

off topic, but where did you get those staples for the braid?
what brand gun is it if you don't mind me asking?
i like the narrow head as opposed to the original ones.

It's a DeWalt DWFP1838 pneumatic stapler using 1/2" 18 gauge narrow crown staples.

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from SMVTI:

It's a DeWalt DWFP1838 pneumatic stapler using 1/2" 18 gauge narrow crown staples.

Thanks

11 months later
#23 2 years ago
Quoted from SMVTI:

I had the identical issue when I did a playfield swap on a Playboy machine. If I plugged in J1 or J3 the fuse would blow. The resistance between TP4 and ground was 0 ohms even with the blown fuse (only when J1 or J3 were connected). What I found was that I had incorrectly connected (crossed) the GI Bus and GI Return lines on both the backbox and the playfield. Once I modified the connections so the Green wire was on the same line as the White wire, and the Red wire was on the same line as the Orange wire, everything worked fine. The reading was about 3 ohms between the lines with no bulbs installed, and the fuse didn't blow.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

You Sir are a lifesaver! Thats exactly what was killing my F5. I had the red and white wires reversed. Switched them and all is well

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 18.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
$ 10.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 22.50
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Coffs Harbour, NS
From: $ 10.00
Electronics
Third Coast Pinball
 
From: £ 22.00
Electronics
Retro Electro Designs
 
$ 12.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
San Diego, CA
2,900 (Firm)
Machine - For Sale
Macomb, MI
2,500
Machine - For Sale
Corbin, KY
From: $ 2.99
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-playboy-blow-gi-fuse-after-pf-swap?hl=bigal56 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.