My first attempt at EM repair. So forgive my ignorance.

When the machine is turned on, the "target made" relay energizes and the score motor turns indefinitely.

You can still start a game at which point the reels reset and the ball kicks into the shooter lane. Meanwhile the game is continuously scoring 1000 points in multiples of 3. The space ship lights in the backbox advance in 3s and the space station unit stepper coil locks on.

I looked for any stuck playfield switches and could not find any. I disconnected the playfield plugs with no change in behavior.

One other tidbit. When the game is off, hitting the saucer switch will turn both motors one time and fire the saucer kicker.

Thanks for your help!

I do have the schematics. Reading them is another story. I will try to check out these things in the morning.

Another observation. With the game off, pressing the outlane rollovers creates a spark in the switches in the pocket(saucer) relay, which activates. I'm having difficulty figuring out how these two features could be linked from the schematics.

Also, if I disconnect the middle Jones plug in the head, the score motor stops spinning.

This happens when the game is off.

I buzzed out the terminals in the head from the plug that cut power to the score motor and found continuity between power and the yellow/brown wire. My assumption is that this is related to the problem but I don't know haw to narrow it down further.

I wonder if my issue could be here. Seems like it could connect my pocket behavior, locked on space station step up solenoid, and locked on Target Made relay. Or perhaps I'm totally off base

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I cannot find a diagram of the score motor in the schematics.

Nothing on the left hand side, but I did find the indicator on the schematic at E7.

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Which switch is the run-on switch on the motor?

Thanks. The machine seemed to be working ok at TPF.

So do I take it correctly that in your opinion the wacky behavior noted above is not directly related to the problem?

Ok, I checked all the switches as best I know how but ran into an issue. Since many the switches are wired in parallel, if one is closed then they all read as closed. Basically all of these read closed, even when clearly open. I double checked the insulator tubings at the switch lugs and verified they were in position.

Please help me understand how to determine which is the faulty switch.

Also, on these "trip relays" is the resting state latched or released?

Visually, all of those suspect switches were open, yet all read closed with a meter. I did try the paper trick on a few switches that I wasn't sure about, but nothing changed the behavior. I suppose there could be something out of my sight that could be causing a short. Any tips on how to get better visualization of that crowded reset bank?

Please tell me if I am thinking correctly or not.

So, if the target made relay is always energized, then either the target made relay switch must be stuck closed, or there must be some improper path through the space ship/space station/beam unit discs path?

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So there is no continuity through the stepper array, so I'm back to finding the mysterious stuck closed switch. I can verify the run on score motor switch is open at the home position. I blocked score motor switch 12a which isolates the A,B,C,D, Pocket trip and Space station trip relays. After this they appropriately metered as closed. So this would seem to narrow my search to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd coin chute relays, the #1 reset relay and the Target made relay. Yet I cannot locate a short. With tape between all the switch blades and lugs I still get continuity across the switches.

Where to look next?

Other observations:
- closing a coin switch starts a game
- while the game is running, the space ship light in the backbox moves across the beams in 3 steps per cycle, but most of the time there are 2 space ship lights lit and moving simultaneously. This seems wrong.

Yes, the Target Made relay stays activated.

I will block 10a in the morning when I go back to CJs

Progress! Kinda.

When I went to block score motor switch 10a, I found that it was in the wrong state. So this inspired me to buck up and attack the assessments of all 33 of the score motor switches, which I must say is no easy feat when trying to work around those bloody plastic switch lifters(see pic) If anyone knows an easy way to check these switches I would love to hear it. I found 3 or 4 switches that seemed to be in the wrong state and adjusted them the best I could.

Now the score motor(most of the time) no longer runs at power on. The start button starts a game normally with the exception that I have to manually reset the ball count.(it counts up just fine)

However, any scoring switch that triggers the target made relay starts a scoring loop that can be randomly anywhere between 1 and 19 cycles before it ends. I suspect a score motor switch is slightly out of tolerance somewhere but confirming that is difficult.

Any thoughts?

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I have the answer to my own question. The bottom panel has a prop bar. If you prop up the playfield, scrub those plastic lifters and backlight them you can see through the plastic lifters and see the switch gaps!

So, after meticulously cleaning and gapping the score motor switches, I still have the same behavior. Activating the 10, 100, or 1000 point relays starts the score motor cycling with the game scoring 3000 points per cycle. I cleaned the 1000 point relay switches and gapped them, but that made no difference. I guess I'll clean the backbox steppers next and see if that changes anything but once again I'm at a loss.

Thanks! I think I'm getting closer.

More progress. The relays do not start the cycle. It's the space ship unit being advanced that starts the cycle. If I decouple the point relays from the spaceship unit, I can trigger the relays which then merely advance the score reels without cycling. If I manually trigger the step up solenoid on the spaceship unit then it starts cycling.

So it would seem that advancing the spaceship stepper closes the circuit which activates the target made relay

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When the target made relate energizes, it closes the switch on the target made relay which activates the score motor.

With the Target made relay closed and the score motor spinning, switch 9C on the score motor closes activating the 1000 point relay.

As it turns out, the ninth cam has three bumps thus the 3000 points.

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So, the question is, what breaks the cycle? I suspect currently it just keeps running until the Space ship unit disc cycles to an open position. I wonder if the pocket trip relay is supposed to open. That is on the reset bank which does not move during this entire scenario.

I will have to dig a little deeper into the schematics.

Thanks for the replies! Looks like I need to clarify a few things:

Actually I am unfamiliar with the rules and haven't found much info online thus far. My understanding is that docking the Space Ship with the Space Station lights the center target for the add-a-ball. I do know that something is supposed to score 3000 points, (see above post) but I'm not sure what yet.

The Beam and Space Station steppers are continuous. The Space Ship stepper has a limit switch in either direction that trips a relay which changes from the step-up to step-down solenoid and vice versa. This function works properly.

Yes, the Target Made relay is not getting cycled off. If you mean 10a, I agree with you. I think it is adjusted properly, but I will block it to be sure its not staying closed.

The machine is very clean and the steppers advance easily. I still suspect some type of wiring/short issue between the Space Ship and the Space Station stepper due to the bizarre behavior when the cycle occurs.

Also, if someone could interpret the stepper interactions in the schematic(see above) and explain them to me, I would be most grateful

Mushroom bumpers

While trying to trace the strange game behavior, I discovered what appears to be misconnections between switches and expected events.

For example: the inlane switch is labeled "space ship to new beam" and outlines are "change space station"

Per the schematics, the inlane switches should trigger the pocket trip relay, but instead they activate the space station trip relay which activates the score motor and fires the space station step up solenoid 4 times.

Meanwhile, per the schematics the Outlane switches should activate the space station trip relay but instead they simultaneously activate both the pocket trip relay and either the A beam or D beam trip relays(alternates)

I've poured over the connectors and wiring to make sure I didn't plug it in wrong or perhaps identify some short but I can't find anything.

Could there be some logic error/switch problem that could create this behavior?

Thanks.

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Xerico Thank you for your generous help, as always!

rolf_martin_062 Thank you so much for agreeing to help! I do believe the issue is clearly via the path through the steppers as blocking the nc Pocket Trip relay switch eliminates the scoring loop. I am anxious to map out and understand with you the connections between the steppers, lamps, etc. I will need to go pick up the machine and schematics from CJs(hopefully tomorrow) and bring it home to facilitate timely discourse.

The Beam and Space Station stepper units are continuous advance. The Space Ship stepper unit has limit switches that reverse the direction. Please clarify what is meant specifically by "position zero". Is it whatever space ship stepper position lights the Space Ship in the first column and whatever space station stepper position lights the space station in column 2, beam C?

thanks again,
Shawn

Here are the full schematics

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Here is video of the game behavior.

Please forgive the quality of the filming.

i removed the back glass and discovered LEDs in the space ship positions, many of which were bad. I replaced all of them with incandescent bulbs. Next I blocked all the switches in the Target Made relay so that I could start a game and manipulate the steppers without triggering other game state changes. I found that if all the bulbs were working, every position of the space ship stepper would pull in the Target Made relay. Strangely, most rows of space ships would have a second space ship lit in the same column, but one bulb would light slowly and dimly relative to the other. If this bulb were removed the relay would then de-energize until the bulb was replaced or the stepper advanced to a position with a pair of intact bulbs. I hastily made a video to demonstrate the behavior.

Any suggestions on what is causing this would be most appreciated!

Yes, that is what the game thinks is happening. I can confirm at this point that every position on the spaceship unit has continuity with every other position essentially. Thus every position of the spaceship docs with the space station and awards for 3000 points.

Thanks Rolf!
I will shoot and upload another video when I get time this afternoon. In the meantime, can you comment after looking at the schematics what would cause the strange spaceship light behavior?

I suspect that now all the bulbs are good that the scoring loop will never stop.

Rolf. This situation that I have is that every single spaceship stepper position is electrically connected to every other position. Therefore the brown or blue or any other positions always complete the path to pull in the target made relay, UNLESS I remove the improperly lit bub, which effectively breaks the circuit.

Yes. The first video shows it steps.

The stepper positions change, but the electrical connection doesn't, therefore the "initial current feeding" is never interrupted unless I remove a lamp.

Updated "gameplay" video

Thanks Rolf.

I placed a strip of tape in the nc Pocket Trip relay switch shown in the attached photo. I started a game and manually engaged the Target Made relay. The game scored the 3000 points and the score motor turned one cycle and stopped as score motor switch 10a opened which cut power to the Target Made relay and the relay disengaged. Interestingly, blocking the Pocket Trip relay switch also cut the power to the improperly lit space ship lamp. Im not sure what that means yet but it's late here and I'm tired.

I appreciate your help in the effort to solve this issue

Shawn

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No, but they use the same steppers. I'm hoping someone can give me some insight on where the paths could cross.

Thanks Rolf. But the space ship has 40 positions(1 on each beam) Do you need me to check all 40?

My prediction is all 40 will energize the Target Made.

As I suspected, jumpering the Pocket Trip relay switch activates the target made relay in all space ship positions.

Some more observations.

In the video in post #51, you can see that the lit spaceship is always on the beam(A, B, C, or D) that is currently lit. This is not the case on my machine. You can advance the Beam unit and it will change the lit Beam and moves the space ship to a new beam but not to the beam that is lit.

Also, perhaps another convoluted clue. If the Space Station is on the lit Beam, moving the space ship to the same column(any Beam)as the lit space station will light an additional Beam.

One example:
If Beam D is lit in the space station occupies position D4 then-
- space ship at pos A4 lights Beam B
- space ship at pos B4 lights Beam A
- space ship at pos C4 lights Beam C

This stuff makes my head hurt.

Rolf, I think it would be helpful if we focus not just on the portion of the spaceship stepper that is involved with the target made pathway, but also the portion of the stepper that is involved in the lamps. There is clearly some interconnection here which is driving the abnormal behavior.

Some photos and some observations here.

Here is a closeup of the Space Ship stepper showing where the wires enter the stepper and are then directed to the spider fingers
Top to bottom:
56 (white/brown)
57 (white/orange)
75 (orange/white)
63 (brown/yellow)
65 (brown/white)

75 is from the Pocket Trip relay in the Target Made circuit.

The other wires are the Beam wires from the Beam unit, presumably from the beam unit.

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This photo shows these wires in the lamp circuit.

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Thanks, score motor is fixed. The score motor is only turning during my gameplay video because the Target Made relay never disengages.

It is the Target Made relay that pulls in. When I remove the lamp that is improperly lit the target made relay disengages. Somehow power is getting from the Target made circuit into the matrix of space ship lamps. If I block the 75(orange/white) wire either in the Pocket trip relay or by lifting the associated spider finger from the stepper rivets, the bulb turns off.

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The following picture shows the space ship stepper fingers after I isolated them from the rivet board.

4 of the fingers are for the 4 beams and the fifth(yellow wire) is from the Target Made circuit.

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Now if I check all the numerous lugs relative to each other they are almost all electrically connected. Maybe this is expected as they are all wired in parallel but it makes troubleshooting confusing.

I have checked and rechecked those plugs numerous times.

Space ship bulbs. All of them.

Please see the video in post#54

I looked at the Beam unit where those wires attach but I was unable to appreciate any obvious problem.(see photos)

For fun I did check continuity between the 2 sets of wires and found that one of the 50v wires was always in continuity with the 4 6 volt wires, depending on the position of the stepper.

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Please specify which wire or wires I am supposed to be measuring relative to. If I measure relative to the 50 V wire (Orange) I do measure 56 V at one of the lugs on the 50 V part of the Beam unit. The other lugs measure either 15 V or 35 V. These numbers rotate as you advance the beam unit.

Here is the sequence:

9 8 7 6 5 4 .3 2 1 7 3 0
B C D C B A B C D C B A

Then repeat. So, 12 steps

Yes

So the stack of fingers on the Beam unit have no bakelite insulation between them, thus they are all electrically connected. Can this be right? I do not see any obvious issue with the wiring otherwise.

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Yes. See video.

I removed all the wipers from the Space Station unit and am still getting continuity all over the place. Too much to map out without taking up the rest of the day.

Are you wanting me to measure current during gameplay somehow? I'm not sure I understand exactly what you want me to do.

Yes. At every position the lamp lights, except for a couple where the space ship lamps appear to be blowing (no continuity through the bulb)

Progress! And I feel really foolish now. After a while of staring at the Space Ship stepper I came to the conclusion that there was no way that the 50V was not going to go to the lamp "matrix". After all, the 6V lamp fingers and the 50V Target Made finger were travelling along the same rivets. While I should have done this days ago, I tracked the wires connecting the Space Ship stepper with the Space Station stepper and found that the corresponding rivets were on the left side of the disc where the 50V finger never could reach as it would hit the limit switch and reverse direction. So I flipped the "spider" 180degrees and it sort of worked properly. The problem is, the stepper still steps way outside the 50V section (36 or 37 steps) and into the lamp section in both directions. This immediately triggers the scoring loop until the 50V finger lands back in the 50V section.

Any thoughts?

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Hallelujah! I figured it out!!!!!

It wasn't the spider that was on backwards, it was that the stepper was on the opposite side of the limit switches. So I flipped the spider back to the original position and advanced the stepper while pulling the limit switch out of the way so that the actuator on the plastic could move past. Guess what? The stepper now moves exactly 10 spaces before reversing with the 50V finger on the proper rivets the whole time!

Crazy!

Thanks to everyone for all their effort and sorry for giving everyone the runaround as a result of my ignorance and the misdirection it caused. It is my first EM repair, after all

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I will summarize this thread for posterity.

Problem:
Initially, there was an issue with the score motor turning continuously. This was resolved with some adjustments of the score motor switches. The larger issue was that the machine would enter a scoring loop frequently whenever the space ship on the back glass was advanced. (See post#78 for an excellent summary of the rules) somehow the machine was behaving as if the space ship was repeatedly docked with the space station, at which point the Target Made relay would pull in and award 3000 points and then repeat a variable number of times. After some observation it became apparent that the 50V Target Made circuit was shorting through the lamp circuit.

Solution:
After many missteps, I surmised that the Space Ship stepper had somehow bypassed its limit switches and was operating an the wrong side of the stepper unit. Literally a 10 second fix to a problem that had vexed me for 3 weeks!

It doesn't surprise me that we all went down the rabbit hole with such an inexperienced person functioning as the translator. I don't regret any of it(mild embarrassment aside) as all the investigations and testing, dead ends or not, really was an invaluable educational experience. So, hopefully all the generous contributors aren't too terribly annoyed