Bally On Beam- Scoring loop mystery SOLVED!

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#101 6 years ago

RM

rolf_martin_062

Inactive member

Aarau

9y 59,550 4,150 14 8

Hi Shawn
I am at the question "how come the Target Made Relay pulls in in any combination of the three units". To take apart these units means a lot of work. Unsolder one wire after the other and test for continuity again and again --- all rivets: Means a lot of work.
So I say - before You start to do this immense work: Lets make a test (5 minutes) so we know "Shawn must take apart / unsolder wires". Maybe the test (5 minutes) tells us: "Can do without"

I am not interested in the Backbox lights --- I am interested in the connecting wires (see JPG-1): In a fully running pin (SkyKing2301 pin) with the bottom wipers in position "my rosa / pink lines": SkyKing2301 has the Test-Light clipped-on at FUSE - and the other wire of the Test-Light he tips-on at the first, then tips-on at the second, third ... rivet of the Space-Ship-Unit (the ones shown in the picture) --- ONLY the "tip-on at "my rosa / pink encircled C2, A2" makes the Bedroom-Test-Light light up --- as SkyKing2301s pin is fully running,

How about "in Your pin" ? --- it is very hard for me to accept that (brown question marks) rivets having no wire soldered-on - these rivets make faulty connection - really ? lets test again.

The second JPG is for "eventually in the future when You do the big work of taking apart / unsoldering wires" - You have located the "wiper on the Space-Station-Unit responsible for connecting towards the Space-Ship-Unit". You have made (I am talking in the future) the set-up (JPG-2) --- only the "B9" test / tip-on is allowed to make the Test-Light light up --- other "lighting ups" are faulty and need investigation.

I would not bother about JPG-2-stuff --- please do the testing shown in JPG-1 --- have the bedroom-test-light clipped-on at the fuse --- the other wire (hold on the insulation of the wire) tip-on (one by one) at all "my marked darkblue dots" --- does the testlight lights up everytime ? --- reallly ? Greetings Rolf

0On-Beam-pinside-Talk-07-Save (resized).jpg

0On-Beam-pinside-Talk-08-Save (resized).jpg

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#102 6 years ago

OP

PEA

alveolus

Pinside member

Oklahoma City, OK

12y 87,300 2,884 13 30

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:
please do the testing shown in JPG-1 --- have the bedroom-test-light clipped-on at the fuse --- the other wire (hold on the insulation of the wire) tip-on (one by one) at all "my marked darkblue dots" --- does the testlight lights up everytime ? --- reallly ? Greetings Rolf

Yes. At every position the lamp lights, except for a couple where the space ship lamps appear to be blowing (no continuity through the bulb)

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#103 6 years ago

OP

PEA

alveolus

Pinside member

Oklahoma City, OK

12y 87,300 2,884 13 30

Progress! And I feel really foolish now. After a while of staring at the Space Ship stepper I came to the conclusion that there was no way that the 50V was not going to go to the lamp "matrix". After all, the 6V lamp fingers and the 50V Target Made finger were travelling along the same rivets. While I should have done this days ago, I tracked the wires connecting the Space Ship stepper with the Space Station stepper and found that the corresponding rivets were on the left side of the disc where the 50V finger never could reach as it would hit the limit switch and reverse direction. So I flipped the "spider" 180degrees and it sort of worked properly. The problem is, the stepper still steps way outside the 50V section (36 or 37 steps) and into the lamp section in both directions. This immediately triggers the scoring loop until the 50V finger lands back in the 50V section.

Any thoughts?

On Beam (resized).jpg

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3

#104 6 years ago

OP

PEA

alveolus

Pinside member

Oklahoma City, OK

12y 87,300 2,884 13 30

Hallelujah! I figured it out!!!!!

It wasn't the spider that was on backwards, it was that the stepper was on the opposite side of the limit switches. So I flipped the spider back to the original position and advanced the stepper while pulling the limit switch out of the way so that the actuator on the plastic could move past. Guess what? The stepper now moves exactly 10 spaces before reversing with the 50V finger on the proper rivets the whole time!

Crazy!

Thanks to everyone for all their effort and sorry for giving everyone the runaround as a result of my ignorance and the misdirection it caused. It is my first EM repair, after all

image (resized).jpeg
image (resized).jpeg

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2

#105 6 years ago

AXE

YeOldPinPlayer

Inactive member

Unknown

8y 111K 6,454 4 12

Well done sir!

I learned a lot, thanks to everyone who posted.

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1

#106 6 years ago

RCP

SkyKing2301

Rocket City Pinball

8y 110K 2,661 1

Fantastic, I'm glad you got it figured out, especially since I haven't had much opportunity to contribute, lol. Wow, you had an awesome support team in Roof and Fredsmythson (who has helped me before and rocks)! Feel free to hit me up if you need any other info from my working machine. Go Pinside go!

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2

#107 6 years ago

OP

PEA

alveolus

Pinside member

Oklahoma City, OK

12y 87,300 2,884 13 30

I will summarize this thread for posterity.

Problem:
Initially, there was an issue with the score motor turning continuously. This was resolved with some adjustments of the score motor switches. The larger issue was that the machine would enter a scoring loop frequently whenever the space ship on the back glass was advanced. (See post#78 for an excellent summary of the rules) somehow the machine was behaving as if the space ship was repeatedly docked with the space station, at which point the Target Made relay would pull in and award 3000 points and then repeat a variable number of times. After some observation it became apparent that the 50V Target Made circuit was shorting through the lamp circuit.

Solution:
After many missteps, I surmised that the Space Ship stepper had somehow bypassed its limit switches and was operating an the wrong side of the stepper unit. Literally a 10 second fix to a problem that had vexed me for 3 weeks!

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#108 6 years ago

CJ

Chrisbee

Pinside member

11y 66,150 3,054 8

What is annoying about this is Post two of this thread. Marcus wrote

Quoted from Xerico:
Adding some additional information:
The game was purchased at TPF 2017. It was working for the majority of the weekend until it started having this problem.
My first thought was that a score switch was stuck. But that does not appear to be the case.
Any other thoughts are appreciated.
Marcus

So right from the start we all should have been looking for something that changed after a reset.

Post last edited 6 years ago: “spelling”

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1

#109 6 years ago

OP

PEA

alveolus

Pinside member

Oklahoma City, OK

12y 87,300 2,884 13 30

Quoted from Chrisbee:
What is annoying about this is Post two of this tread. Marcus wrote

So right from the start we all should have been looking for something that changed after a reset.

It doesn't surprise me that we all went down the rabbit hole with such an inexperienced person functioning as the translator. I don't regret any of it(mild embarrassment aside) as all the investigations and testing, dead ends or not, really was an invaluable educational experience. So, hopefully all the generous contributors aren't too terribly annoyed