(Topic ID: 285787)

Bally old chicago score motor wont run

By metalguy

3 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 19 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by metalguy
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

Old Chicago Score Motor (resized).jpg
#1 3 years ago

Can anyone help me with this one?

Picked up a bally old chicago not working. Very clean with not many plays on it. However motor wont turn at start up.

Heres what I did so far and whats happening.

Disassembled and cleaned/ lubbed steppers,
Replaced fuse blocks and new fuses
Did a basic check on relays for loose wires, misadjusted contact gaps, and dirty contacts ( very possible I missed a some, always do)
Have correct power outputs at transformer
Cleaned jones plugs

There is no left flipper button switch

Credits are on the machine. I have schematic and start up guide.

When powered on GI lights come on, coin lockout coil locks and lock relay powers on and the game over relay is tripped
When credit button is pressed the coin, credit and reset relays lock as they should but thats it.

I can manually move the score motor all the way around back to home position.

switch 1D on score motor is the index switch correct? It does not move the motor. I tried cleaning it but nothing. I did see a small blue spark once but no movement.

I'm looking at e-10 thru e-12 on the schematic (dont know how to post it) This appears to be the right area I think (start up is complicated on these schematic as a beginner)

2b on the start up sequence says. The coin relay will energize the reset relay thru a game over relay switch, operate the score motor and then thru normally open 2 and 11...

I have read clays guide and pin wiki alot, but grasping start up is overwhelming.

Thanks

#2 3 years ago
Quoted from metalguy:

When credit button is pressed the coin, credit and reset relays lock as they should but thats it.
switch 1D on score motor is the index switch correct? It does not move the motor.

Since the Credit relay fires it's likely that the top power rail which also goes to the Score Motor is good.
Old Chicago Score Motor (resized).jpgOld Chicago Score Motor (resized).jpg
The Score Motor 1D switch is indeed the index switch, but it relies on the 2nd and 3rd Coin Chute switches on the left also being closed.

You could check whether the motor runs at all by briefly jumpering the 30/yellow wire at the bottom of the schematic to the 13/red-yellow wire on the Score Motor solder lug, or just manually closing any of the relay switches along the right side of the schematic (e.g. Targets Down relay switch, Top Hole relay switch, etc.).

/Mark

#3 3 years ago

Was readying a reply and see Mark's response, he nailed it... give those a go in that order.

#4 3 years ago

Thanks

I just tried the right hand schematic relays nothing happens. Also jumped yellow common at transformer output to red/ yellow lug on motor. Got small spark no movement. By the way the game over is still tripped. I think this is correct as it latches later.

Whats next?

#5 3 years ago

Does it have one of those little individual jones plugs to unplug the motor when working on the game? My Jolly Roger's motor wouldn't spin...someone had left it in the disconnected service plug.

#6 3 years ago

It could be a mechanical issue. An image on IPDB (https://ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1704&picno=54698&zoom=1) shows that it's an open frame motor with a sheet metal cover. You might remove the sheet metal cover and have a look underneath to see if the gears are bound up somehow. Also check that the rotor can spin freely inside the stator and that it can slide in and out easily to engage the rest of the gear train.

See also:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/score-motor-over-rotation#post-4693232
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-monte-carlo-reset-motor-doesn-t-stop#post-5081528

#7 3 years ago

OK getting somewhere now! Started poking around the motor a bit. There is a magnetic motor wheel thing that pulls in I manually pushed it in and then tried jumpering it and it is working. Must have been dust or dirt holding it in when giving it power.

Credit button now works and deducting credit from wheel. But no ball kick out yet. I will work on that before I ask for help.

Thanks guys your the best!

#8 3 years ago

Ok, Scores reset to zero, ball kicks out. All score switches are as they should be at zero. Motor continues to run. I checked all relays above associated with score motor, none are locked on. All playfield switches appear open, coin door switches are ok. The drop target bank keeps trying to reset but targets are up and switches all ok.
The weird thing is the under playfield bonus stepper keeps stepping up and down between zero position and one.

#9 3 years ago

Also although non are staying locked on, outhole relay and out bonus score relay are toggling with score motor

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from metalguy:

Motor continues to run. I checked all relays above associated with score motor, none are locked on.

You'll need to check the individual switches and possibly their solder lugs and wires to make sure that one of the switches isn't stuck closed. You can divide the problem in two by blocking the 2nd or 3rd Coin Chute switch. If that stops the Score Motor the problem is likely in one of the five switches that rely on the 2nd Coin Chute switch. Otherwise the problem is likely in the other eight switches.

I'd start by having a close look at the Reset relay switch.

#11 3 years ago

Ok, Checked coin door switches they are not mangled and both add credits and not stuck closed. There is no 3rd coin switch relay only 2nd.
I checked all associated switches on the relays, no solder bombs or shorts, everyting appears to be making and breaking as they should.
The reset relay triggers at start up then lets go, the motor continues running. The outhole relay and out bonus score relay are switching on and off with the motor rotation. As this happens the outhole solenoid and drop target reset solenoid fire as they are connected to outhole relay and score motor.
The bonus stepper continuisly steps up to position one (O in old chicago) and then reset solenoid fires back down to zero. I'm looking at f21 -f23 on the schematic. I cleaned and gapped the contacts on the bonus unit switches. I cleaned the outhole playfield switch and tried it open or closed same thing.

Thanks again for helping,

#12 3 years ago

If I put a strip of paper between the make break switch on the bonus stepper with the green/yellow and red/black wire everything seems ok. Score motor stops and I can play.

Side question is the alternatiing relay a hold relay.
thanks

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from metalguy:

If I put a strip of paper between the make break switch on the bonus stepper with the green/yellow and red/black wire everything seems ok.

Sounds like you found your problem. That switch doesn't open when it should which fires the Out Bonus Score relay (bottom right of the schematic above) which in turn keeps the Score Motor running.

#14 3 years ago

Thanks Mark, That paper is stopping it from making contact when it the stepper goes to position 1 from zero. So I can trigger scores and bonuses but need to pull the paper out for it to countdown bonus which it does. But then the motor continues running until I put paper back in. AHHHHH!

I think I am way over thinking it and staring at the schematics to much. Need to take a break and look tomorrow

#15 3 years ago

Got it. I must have bent the stiffening blade in the out hole on playfield creating short. Very easy to do when removing playfield from cab. I have to keep reminding myself to check the obvious stuff first before getting crazy.

So how about this one? My 100 point chime will not fire. It is scoring.

Super simple circuit, I have continuity when circuit is closed from switch on 100 pt relay all the way to coil. Reistance at lugs is right on compairing to other 2 chimes which work. Plunger mechanically moves perfect. I tried triggering 100 pts from under playfield to watch and see if plunger moves. Nothing at all. HUH?
Also does the same for 500 pts and 100 single

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from metalguy:

My 100 point chime will not fire. It is scoring.
Super simple circuit, I have continuity when circuit is closed from switch on 100 pt relay all the way to coil.

Continuity doesn't tell you much. You're probably seeing continuity not through the switch but through the coil and transformer. (see https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fan-tas-tic-spinner-won-t-stop#post-5531247 for an example).

What's the resistance across the switch when it's closed? Unless it's about an ohm or less the switch is probably dirty.

#17 3 years ago

All three 10, 100 and 1000 pt switches measure .2 when closed. I cleaned them as well. I did notice the schematic calls for cg-29-1600 solenoids. Mine have cc 31-2000

#18 3 years ago

All three chimes have one solder lug wired in common to a black wire. What happens if you jumper the other solder lug on the 100 point chime to the 10 (or 1000) point chime solder lug? If the 100 point chime fires when you score 10 (or 1000) points the problem is in the wiring and not in the solenoid.

#19 3 years ago

Thanks Mark, I jumped like you said and the solenoid worked . Then I made a 7 foot jumper went to hook it direct to 100 pt relay but tried it first as is and it worked on its own. Like it just needed to be woken up.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
From: $ 1.00
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 12.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
UpKick Pinball
 
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-old-chicago-score-motor-wont-run?hl=emspence and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.