(Topic ID: 204347)

Bally Night Rider Not Starting a Game

By crusinsam

6 years ago


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  • 23 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Mk1Mod0
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    #1 6 years ago

    Trying to help a friend of a friend get his Bally Night Rider working again. So far I have replaced the power module board with the PinHead board from Pinball Resource. I repinned all of the connectors when I replaced the board. I just replaced all of the caps on the Solenoid board. While I had the board out I did the ground fixes and connected TP1 to TP3. I get all 7 flashes on the MPU LED. I believe it may be staying very dimly lit. I can get it to go into the self test menu. During the switch self test it displays #7 which is tilt. It looks like someone clipped all of the diodes to the tilt switches. Should I solder all of them back? Could this be what is preventing the game from starting?

    I also have voltages from test points

    Power Module
    TP1 = 5.89
    TP2 = 224
    TP3 = 14.82
    TP4 = 6.6
    TP5 = 45.2

    Solenoid
    TP1 = 4.83
    TP5 = 14.70

    MPU
    TP1 = 4.76
    TP2 = 14.61
    TP5 = 4.77
    TP6 = 12.53

    Where should I go from here?

    #2 6 years ago

    If it's stuck in Tilt it won't start. Clipping the diodes was probably part of bypassing them, but check the schematic and see.

    #3 6 years ago

    So the MPU is going through all flashes but the game is not booting, meaning no displays or start up tune?

    #4 6 years ago
    Quoted from BigAl56:

    So the MPU is going through all flashes but the game is not booting, meaning no displays or start up tune?

    I get the displays and start up tune.

    #5 6 years ago

    Here is the start up video.

    #6 6 years ago

    The next thing I would do is open switch 7.

    #7 6 years ago

    Door Switch and Clipped Tilt Diodes Video

    #8 6 years ago

    Check the tilt switch under the playfield too (between the flipper mechs).

    #9 6 years ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    The next thing I would do is open switch 7.

    Sorry for the ignorant question, how do I open switch 7?

    #10 6 years ago
    Quoted from crusinsam:

    Sorry for the ignorant question, how do I open switch 7?

    Looking at the schematics from http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=4497 there are three pages that show cabinet assembly wiring. Unfortunately, I don't see a color code. The screen shot I've attached shows the tilt bob and the tilt roll cage. Look for those and the one Quench mentioned between the flippers under the playfield (which may or may not be the roll cage, not sure).

    When you find them, try unhooking one of the wires. The switch test should then go to the next stuck switch, if there is one.

    NightRiderSchemSS (resized).pngNightRiderSchemSS (resized).png

    Edit: I apologize if I'm telling you stuff you already know. It's hard to judge someone's technical level from a few posts. Know that there are people here who can definitely help you fix your game. Quench is one of the best. There are many others.

    #11 6 years ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    I don't see a color code.

    The number in the square block is the color code. First number is the primary color, second number is the chaser. Key is at the bottom of the page.

    crusinsam try unplugging and replugging the coin door. Likely just dirty plugs.

    Shawn

    #12 6 years ago

    I had a look at your videos, it looks like your problem might be deeper than just the tilt switch. Notice the messed up displays and playfield 6k and 8k bonus lamps stuck on.

    With the machine ON and running in switch test mode, disconnect the J3 connector from the MPU board (this connector is the cabinet switch harness). Does the switch test still indicate the tilt switch is closed? If yes, then disconnect the J2 connector from the MPU board (this is the playfield switch harness). If the game still says the tilt switch is closed your problem is on the MPU board.

    #13 6 years ago

    So I'm looking like a total newbie here after reading the book again I was incorrect. I have flashing double zeros which means I don't have any stuck switches. The seven I was seeing was part of the threshold and book keeping functions.

    So if I manually flick the ball up to the shooter lane it will let me act like I'm playing a game. The displays still cycle through and flash the same numbers of the first video I posted. When the ball drains it kicks it back up to the shooter lane and I can play again. The ball # does not change on the display....after playing for a while the game then runs off cycling through the solenoid like it's in test mode. Where should I go next? I've already pulled the MPU board looking for cold solder joints and I reseated all the chips. I unplugged and replugged the connector underneath the tilt plum bob. Thanks in advance for all the help!!!

    #14 6 years ago

    Can you post clear pictures of the MPU board just incase we're looking at battery corrosion issues?

    Some of your book-keeping data might be corrupt so it might be an idea to go through all your book-keeping settings and clear them back to zero (to clear them press the SW33 switch top of the MPU board at each book keeping function). Of course, set the first three award and highest score to date thresholds (pressing the start button) to your desired scores.

    #15 6 years ago

    Pictures of all the boards. I'll work on clearing the book-keeping settings tomorrow and update then. I appreciate the help!

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    #16 6 years ago

    Your original boards are in very nice shape. Luckily, someone's removed the original nicad battery from the MPU board before it could leak and cause corrosion damage.
    Looks like they didn't hook up any type of replacement battery though and it's the reason your book-keeping data is probably corrupt (nothing is keeping the data valid while the machine is off). There's a few ways of dealing with this.

    In the first video you're also missing some chime sounds so aren't getting the full power-up melody.
    Might be an idea to go through the game test modes to check that all lamps are flashing, then that all displays count 000000 to 999999 and if all solenoids activate at their respective test numbers as listed in the manual (printed page 21).

    #17 6 years ago

    Gotta agree with Quench. I think the MPU is booting fine.The lamps are not working as are the coils. Only one display is showing correct data. I'm guessing there is a problem somewhere in your addressing or one of the PIA chips is bad. Carefully swap the 2 bottom large chips on the MPU, U10 and U11. See if that changes things. Also check the connections on J1 and J3. After that try disconnecting the lamp board. Something is not getting selected properly.

    #18 6 years ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    Your original boards are in very nice shape. Luckily, someone's removed the original nicad battery from the MPU board before it could leak and cause corrosion damage.
    Looks like they didn't hook up any type of replacement battery though and it's the reason your book-keeping data is probably corrupt (nothing is keeping the data valid while the machine is off). There's a few ways of dealing with this.
    In the first video you're also missing some chime sounds so aren't getting the full power-up melody.
    Might be an idea to go through the game test modes to check that all lamps are flashing, then that all displays count 000000 to 999999 and if all solenoids activate at their respective test numbers as listed in the manual (printed page 21).

    I took off the battery. Amazingly it looked like it did when it came from the factory. Pretty much all lamps are flashing and all the displays look fine cycling through 000000 to 999999. Almost all the solenoids activate. I need to resolder a broken wire to a pop bumper. Can nvram be used on older solid state machines? I'm thinking that would be the best way to address the missing battery?

    I'll do some of the other recommended items when I get home tonight and report my findings. I definitely enjoy this hobby and all the good people that are willing to help less experienced people!

    #19 6 years ago
    Quoted from crusinsam:

    Can nvram be used on older solid state machines? I'm thinking that would be the best way to address the missing battery?

    Yes it can. The 5101 socketed RAM chip at U8 is where a replacement NVRAM would go.

    http://nvram.weebly.com/

    1 week later
    #20 6 years ago

    Sorry for not updating sooner. I've been busy. I just put in the NVRAM and reset all of the book keeping entries to 0. I tried adjusting the first three Award settings and nothing happened when I pushed the start/credit button. So now I'm wondering if there is a simple problem with the start button. I made sure the contacts were clean on the switches. They look like they have been stacked for the free play option. I'm also wondering if the problem is the door switch not being hooked up. I've attached pictures and also linked a new video.

    Thanks again in advance for the help.

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    #21 6 years ago

    The red w/green wire is not required on your start button. The only wires required there are the blue w/white on one side of the switch and the red w/yellow on the other.

    The big white switch on the door is not factory. I do not know what someone was trying to accomplish there, but the red w/white and brown w/white wires are for the coin slot switches so I imagine it has something to do with adding credits.

    Should look something like this.

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    #22 6 years ago

    So it appears the added door switch had the coin switches wired to it and the return was on the third tab of the credit button. (Start switch.) The idea being when you started a game it would add a credit. Not sure it was done right but could definitely be the cause of your problem.

    Shawn

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