(Topic ID: 291055)
Linked Games
Night Rider EM
Bally, 1976
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Since the weather isn't cooperating for clear coating (and I've been playing my new to me Space Station) I've decided to renumber my reels this weekend.
I'm planning on stripping them clean, then applying this sticker. I used the Bally file.
My thought was to clear it first before peeling off. That way, down the road, a moist towel could shine them up again.
Any thoughts before I continue?
20210702_124453 (resized).jpg
Exton, PA
I gotta say, this is some real nice work.
I have the SS version of this game, and have no problem diving into anything electrical - either SS or EM. I've even done some stencil work on a few games, but never any playfield touchups. Your color matching and painting control are great. Looking really good!
Quoted from dhutton:I gotta say, this is some real nice work.
I have the SS version of this game, and have no problem diving into anything electrical - either SS or EM. I've even done some stencil work on a few games, but never any playfield touchups. Your color matching and painting control are great. Looking really good!
Thank you so much. This is my first real detail job. Clearly, photos are hiding more flaws. But overall I'm very satisfied for my first time effort.
Looking good, @ronss!
Funny thing...I was watching Stir Crazy on Starz today (Richard Pryor, Gene Wilder, 1980) and I must've seen this movie a dozen or so times over the years. Never noticed till today....early on in the movie, during the bar fight scene, in the background is a tech is working on an EM Night Rider with the playfield up. 
Night Rider EM in Stir Crazy (resized).jpgQuoted from Mathazar:Looking good, RonSS!
Funny thing...I was watching Stir Crazy on Starz today (Richard Pryor, Gene Wilder, 1980) and I must've seen this movie a dozen or so times over the years. Never noticed till today....early on in the movie, during the bar fight scene, in the background is a tech is working on an EM Night Rider with the playfield up.
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Hahaha! That's awesome!
Quoted from Mathazar:Looking good, RonSS!
Funny thing...I was watching Stir Crazy on Starz today (Richard Pryor, Gene Wilder, 1980) and I must've seen this movie a dozen or so times over the years. Never noticed till today....early on in the movie, during the bar fight scene, in the background is a tech is working on an EM Night Rider with the playfield up.
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Holy crap that’s crazy!! Cool find, thanks for posting this!
Quoted from Mathazar:Looking good, RonSS!
Funny thing...I was watching Stir Crazy on Starz today (Richard Pryor, Gene Wilder, 1980) and I must've seen this movie a dozen or so times over the years. Never noticed till today....early on in the movie, during the bar fight scene, in the background is a tech is working on an EM Night Rider with the playfield up. [quoted image]
That's right...that's right...we bad...uh huh.
Final prep before clear.
I found some egg crate foam for the lamps. Hopefully the clear won't eat it and leave me a sticky mess! I'll definitely test first!!!
Rather than dismantle everything I'm talking a few short cuts. Found a toothpick works nicely to keep these switch wires under the playfield. Should help come sanding time.
20210705_113243 (resized).jpg20210705_114259 (resized).jpg20210705_114308 (resized).jpgQuoted from RonSS:I found some egg crate foam for the lamps. Hopefully the clear won't eat it and leave me a sticky mess! I'll definitely test first!!!
Can you just populate the lamp sockets with old/bad bulbs and then remove after laying down the clear? Seems like it would be easier and less messy, unless you didn't want to get any clear on the outsides edges of the lamp sockets.
I don't think I have enough.
I'm actually doing it more for sanding, but good thought.
Also, I'm thinking no bulbs will offer a smoother spray pattern.
Kind of like jumping into a pool. Sometimes you just count to yourself and do it...
Today's work:
Naptha surface
Light sand 800 grit
Naptha clean
Rapid Prep
Naptha
Mist coat SprayMax 2
Medium coat Spraymax 2
Medium coat Spraymax 2
Keep in mind, I'm not entirely certain what "Medium coat" is, so we'll see what happens.
And since I don't have a rotisserie I set up some saw horses, 2x4s, and used old peg board to keep everything steady.
I did notice so.e touch up paint being lifted after the Rapid Prep. What can you do, right?
Tomorrow is light sand, clean, and a few more coats.
20210705_145633 (resized).jpg20210705_153312 (resized).jpg20210705_160146 (resized).jpg20210705_161152 (resized).jpg20210705_161208 (resized).jpg20210705_161418 (resized).jpg20210705_161421 (resized).jpgAfter a few hours, the clear has smoothed out quite a bit. I think I'll be OK regarding fish eyes, etc, but we'll see. Maybe I'm just fooling myself.
I think I went too light yesterday. Probably a good thing.
Here's today's result after a mist, 2 "medium coats",and finally I said enough already and went with another "heavier medium" pass.
Feels like I have about 20% of the can left, which is why I'm thinking I went too light previously.
Again, a little bummed my touch up work didn't hold up well, but in the end, it's going to be OK. Hopefully this clear will last decades and bring joy to many people.
20210706_100815 (resized).jpgGot around to revamping a score reel today. Here's the good, the bad, and the ugly.
I'll have to place it back in the machine to see how things line up - with the edge and the joining 4-5. I tried to split the difference.
20210708_141350 (resized).jpg20210708_141357 (resized).jpg20210708_141405 (resized).jpg
What are the stickers made of? Depending on the material you can wet set it. I did it with a large decal on an arcade and the bezel.
Quoted from Murphdom:What are the stickers made of? Depending on the material you can wet set it. I did it with a large decal on an arcade and the bezel.
Post #152 shows the paper. I'm not certain of the exact composition, but in general, they're name tag quality. It was the only thing Staples had on the shelf.
They almost feel more paper than vinyl, if that makes sense.
I did shoot them with a few coats of clear, but I'm not certain how the backing would hold up.
I like the idea though. I may have to sacrifice one and see.
So, the clear was certainly a learning experience. I definitely laid it on too thin at the start. I ended up laying heavier layers, but then mother nature screwed me. As a result, I've got clear left over I can no longer use, and some orange peel that's on pretty thin clear. So I just used some compound and called it quits. It won't be like I had dreamed, but I learned a lot, and I think the end result is better than the start.
After a week of curing I decided to put the rails back on. I know, probably too soon, but I've got life to live.
I'll work on getting all the switches and steppers running smoothly this next week. I'll try to hold back from repopulating the field and/or waxing for another 2 weeks.
I've replaced all insert lights and behind drops with warm white leds. I plan on doing all lights this way, but I'm not certain how many I have lying around at the moment.
Also, stole a page from the Mati Hari rebuild and threw down a little felt for the service position.
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Okay. This is B.S. For the last few weeks Ron's been getting all the Hype
leaving everyone else behind.
I've had it up to my neck! This is the last straw! I had to get the Night Rider
out of the barn!
Well you know actually. A few years ago I had the N.R. set up and now that I
have additional space, I figured I'd put it back on its legs and give it a quick
freshening up. I didn't do the high quality work that Ron's doing, but got her
cleaned and lubed and she's now playing fine and back in action..
IMG_0549 (resized).JPGQuoted from RonSS:So, the clear was certainly a learning experience. I definitely laid it on too thin at the start. I ended up laying heavier layers, but then mother nature screwed me. As a result, I've got clear left over I can no longer use, and some orange peel that's on pretty thin clear. So I just used some compound and called it quits. It won't be like I had dreamed, but I learned a lot, and I think the end result is better than the start.
After a week of curing I decided to put the rails back on. I know, probably too soon, but I've got life to live.
I'll work on getting all the switches and steppers running smoothly this next week. I'll try to hold back from repopulating the field and/or waxing for another 2 weeks.
I've replaced all insert lights and behind drops with warm white leds. I plan on doing all lights this way, but I'm not certain how many I have lying around at the moment.
Also, stole a page from the Mati Hari rebuild and threw down a little felt for the service position.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Looks good my friend!
Quoted from gdonovan:Looks good my friend!
Thanks man,
I'll have to have you come down soon and help me fine tune this thing. Beers on me, of course.
Quoted from jrpinball:Can believe I just caught this thread now. Great work, Ron!
Thanks JR!
1 week later
Threw my pops and ball kicker back on today.
I've got a few drop target issues I'm working out right now. Both switches and smooth mechanics.
I have a few drops that I need to push firmly to completely drop and score. They also need to be pulled up. I also have a few dropping, but not scoring, although when all down the mech resets.
Is there a spring on the reset bar I'm missing?
Also, my saucer isn't switching values. I'll take a look at that later.
20210726_155154 (resized).jpg20210726_155635 (resized).jpg20210726_155644 (resized).jpgFixed my saucer issue.
Still working on drops.
As a bonus, I dropped a screw that I can't find. I guess I'll just follow the burning coil smell later.
Quoted from RonSS:Is there a spring on the reset bar I'm missing?
Flash Gordon does, side opposite coil.
Resized_16273363345747854563004997775913_806623007401624 (resized).jpegQuoted from RonSS:I dropped a screw that I can't find.
Yea, I hate dropping a screw, but sometimes I guess that's just part of the process..
On the Drops, each drop target has a spring to help it along to drop, but there isn't
any on the Reset Coils.
The contacts underneath the 2 banks run in series and when the drops are all
down, the circuit is completed to reset the Bank's coil which sounds all is good there.
On the scoring. Each drop briefly closes a contact on its way down that's on the
backside of the Bank which energizes the 50 Point Relay. When the target is all the
way down, that contact is once again open.
The Drops that don't drop without help. Those switches on the backside of the Bank.
They briefly close when the Drop is on its way down from a tongue on the lower backside
of the drops that ride on a blade on the way down. I'm thinking some of those blades
that get ridden are a little tight inward toward the Bank. You might want to compare
those blades from the ones that don't drop, to the ones that do and make adjustments
from there.
It sounds like maybe the contacts on the backside aren't making good connection when
the drops drop and ride on the blades for the ones that aren't scoring..
Much appreciated all.
I had taken the units apart for cleaning and noticed they weren't sliding perfectly but thought maybe it was a gravity or coil issue.
Once the targets are reset, does the arm just drop all the way down by gravity?
Mopar, I had noticed what you referenced with regard to the contacts. I tried cleaning a few, but same result. They "appear" to be doing the same as the working targets, meaning open, momentarily closed, then open. I'll try readjusting the leafs again as well as the tongues you had mentioned.
Quoted from RonSS:I'll try readjusting the leafs again as well as the tongues you had mentioned.
Okay. Yea, what I meant by the tongue, that white plastic piece on the bottom of the back of the
Drops that ride on the blades that closes the switches on the backside of the Bank.
Some of those blades may need to be lightened up so the Drops spring down and reset back up
on their own.
Yes, from the weight of the bar and plungers, the coils reset on their own.
Oh yes. I've lemon pledged those blades that the Drop Target's tit (tongue) ride
on. Lemon Pledge takes any possible stickiness away. I've also Pledge plungers
by damping it on a piece of paper towel..
As far as drops not staying up when the bank resets... adjust the lift bar so that instead of the drops all raising evenly they are staggered so the drop farthest from the coil raises ahead of the others (does that make sense)? I had this problem and so I took a video of the action and slowed it down and found that the force of the coil actually flexed the lift bar and raised the first drops on the coil side and the far end drops were not being lifted up enough. Since I adjusted no drop has failed to reset in 18 years.
Quoted from swillie:As far as drops not staying up when the bank resets... adjust the lift bar so that instead of the drops all raising evenly they are staggered so the drop farthest from the coil raises ahead of the others (does that make sense)? I had this problem and so I took a video of the action and slowed it down and found that the force of the coil actually flexed the lift bar and raised the first drops on the coil side and the far end drops were not being lifted up enough. Since I adjusted no drop has failed to reset in 18 years.
That's a great suggestion, but if that doesn't cut it, it's because your lock collars are worn badly and need replacing. PBR doesn't carry these, you've got to get replacements from MARCO...they call them "reset spacer blocks"... see post 361 on this thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mata-hari-club-em-and-ss-all-are-welcome
I typically replace the collar on the opposite side of the coil, but sometimes there's so much wear on them you may need to replace both.
Unfortunately you'll still encounter the Bally brick issue where hitting a DT with force might not drop it... there's not enough downward spring pressure on each DT, so the target actually bounces off the rubber ring right back onto the ledge... Bally sucked for not fixing this issue by adding a secondary spring... they had to have known about it.
Quoted from Dono:That's a great suggestion, but if that doesn't cut it, it's because your lock collars are worn badly and need replacing. PBR doesn't carry these, you've got to get replacements from MARCO...they call them "reset spacer blocks"... see post 361 on this thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mata-hari-club-em-and-ss-all-are-welcome
I typically replace the collar on the opposite side of the coil, but sometimes there's so much wear on them you may need to replace both.
Unfortunately you'll still encounter the Bally brick issue where hitting a DT with force might not drop it... there's not enough downward spring pressure on each DT, so the target actually bounces off the rubber ring right back onto the ledge... Bally sucked for not fixing this issue by adding a secondary spring... they had to have known about it.
Making progress.
These 2 collars were slightly too close, preventing free movement due to friction.
I still have a few drops doing there own thing (not always resetting), and I've got some play in the reset bar, so more digging in store, but the major issue (in my opinion) has been resolved.
20210726_155635 (resized).jpgQuoted from swillie:As far as drops not staying up when the bank resets... adjust the lift bar so that instead of the drops all raising evenly they are staggered so the drop farthest from the coil raises ahead of the others (does that make sense)? I had this problem and so I took a video of the action and slowed it down and found that the force of the coil actually flexed the lift bar and raised the first drops on the coil side and the far end drops were not being lifted up enough. Since I adjusted no drop has failed to reset in 18 years.
Looking into this now.
Found a reset bar end "inside" instead of "outside" the plunger side. All drops resetting nicely!
Edit: spoke too soon. Intermittent targets not resetting. Time to go back to work.
Next up, ball count not advancing.
The coil tests out at 10 ohms, so that seems OK.
The count resets just fine, and will advance freely by hand. Contacts are clean.
I tried a dmm with clips on the coil lugs, but I get jumpy numbers and values when nearly any switch is triggered.
My guess at this point, is that there's a break in signal between the trough switch and the ball count advance, as when I drain other things spin and make noise and such.
I'll read the schematic tonight, probably a Jones plug issue.
Here's what's going on, I just don't understand what's actually happening.
My ball count stepper isn't advancing. I can easily move it manually, and the coil checks out at 10 ohms, which seems to be in spec.
I'm trying to check for continuity, but I'm not solid on that process yet. More on that in a minute.
Here's an oddity (I think). When I go through a "game", I start the game and just use the middle drain switch.
Ball 1 - drain - machine claps as relays do their things. Still shows Ball 1. I then manually step to Ball 2.
Ball 2 - drain - same result, Ball 2 still showing.
Ball 3 identical
Ball 4 identical
Ball 5 (showing on backglass)- here's the odd thing. I drain, click clack, move the stepper. "Game Over" is displayed. Yet, if I drain here, the machine does all the movement still. Then it's really game over and nothing else produces movement, etc.
-------------------
For continuity I've got my dmm on ohms. Game off.
I'm matching the orange wire on the Ball count stepper in the cab "floor" with backbox right Jones top right connection (orange/white). I'm reading 60.
Same orange stepper lug with middle Jones in cab 3rd down on left (yellow). I get 50.
Same orange lug with backbox left Jones 7th down on left (yellow). 50 again.
Clearly continuity is not my thing, so I'll go ahead and raise my hand here for some help.
Here's the schematic if it helps.
https://www.ipdb.org/files/1677/Bally_Night_Rider_Schematic.pdf
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