So this is a Future Spa game. When the regular MPU board is in the game, on powerup it will not startup for about a minute or two.. and after that it runs fine.

But the LED appears to be out all together.. as it never lights or blinks.. yet the game runs once we are past that delay. The game has the original SDB in as well.

Without the LED, I'm a bit blind. Any ideas on what could be causing this delay? Is the 5V maybe slow to come up to spec?

I've not seen anyone document one of these 'slow boots' before.. anyone have an experience?

No, no aftermarket stuff on the board.

Check in what way? Diode test and looking for the 0.7v?

Thanks everyone... I will check on the caps on the SDB since they are original too.. and our normal component suppliers have been OOS on them for awhile *hint* *hint*

So C23 is the cap in the 12v circuit? still need to find a C26 tho. Would be kind of wonky to do one but not both. It's the 160uF 350V one that has been OOS as well at both GPE and Bigdaddy.

I appreciate the offer. I used a substitute on the last board I updated, but I think I'll hold out unless this one is leaking AC like crazy. I'll try to get down to do some testing tomorrow night.

I was going to overhaul the SDB on this game.. but then all was playing fine.. so I wasn't... but now it looks like I might have to... I'm so lazy

yeah, last time I was hunting for these he mentioned that. I prefer ordering from you for your amazingly quick turnaround.. but he's stocking a wider range of stuff sometimes. I know the kits are work putting together, but us lazy folks really appreciate it

Testing...

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Ok so did testing tonight. 5v is there on both the sdb and mpu test points without any delay.
C23 had only .2vac across it, while c26 had 4vac across it - so c26 is nasty at least

But I replaced the led, and it still didn't work. Looking at the schematic and the board, looks like q2 needs to be good for the led to work, but it is not testing good. I can't get the .7v drop from base to the legs. So I guess it's bad. There is also a hint of corriosion in the area, probably from when they last replaced the battery. Small amounts on tp6,q2,r134,r107,cr44. But I don't see any elsewhere on the board, and not any over by the reset section around q1, q5, etc. q1 and q5 test fine

So I suppose q2 is the root of my led problem... But best I can tell that should not be related to the delayed start.

I can't get my logic probe on the cpu leg fast enough to check for the reset. But clearly it gets it since the board does boot eventually.

In testing tonight, it was pretty consistent in that after about 35 seconds after power on, you'd get the sound test, etc. that feels a bit faster than I recall, but still seems slow. Am I off?

I know I know... But it's not central to the problem so it can be addressed separate. I am focusing one one issue at a time vs stripping everything down and then trying to debug 6 different things at once.

No need to point out the battery...

So no more thoughts?

I put in a big order to BigDaddy... sorry Ed, you were OOS on just too much stuff I needed while placing a component order. I got stuff to do the typical rebuild on the SDB just to clean it up... and most of the stuff in the reset area of the board since there is a sign of past corrison. But I did not go as far as all the sockets since it doesn't look close to that area.

So, after waiting and waiting on parts.. I finally got to do some work here.

First, I worked on the SDB to take that out of the equation.. and since it was needed anyways.
- Replaced C23 and C26
- Replaced all the headers and connectors (horribly tarnished)
- Did all the standard upgrades (minus the fuse swap)

All the voltages look fine within their ranges.. same as the power reticifier (some are a bit hot.. its a rottendog board).

Then, working on the MPU.. I knew Q2 was bad.. but because there was some signs of corrosion in the area even tho it had clearly been serviced previous because the current battery wasn't corroded. So I stripped the area below U11, did the vingar bath and rinse. (Q2 actually fell apart when handling it) and rebuilt that area. No grey'ing or corrosion was seen outside that area, or under U11 that I could see. U8 looks like it's socket was redone in the previous repair.. but no other corrosion in that area I could see.

After that, the LED worked. w00p! And the behavior in the delayed boot is in fact sitting there waiting for the 7th flash. But I also have a second issue now, all the controlled lamps have a very noticeable flicker. When I put in my other MPU (an alltek) the controlled lamps are fine.

So on the 7th flash.. the incoming 43V is fine.. and it looks fine on the other side of R113 at TP3 (22V). In Clay's guides, he talks about jumping two leads together to fool the mpu into thinking the 43V is there.. and on the bench that didn't seem to have any effect. The one diode in the circuit wasn't testing good (CR49), so I replaced that, and all the Rs looked ok. That really just leaves U14 (a 4049). There was some discoloring that looked like heat damage on the side closest to the big resistor next to it.. but it cleaned up.

That seems to be the culprit.. of course another part I don't have on hand.. If its just struggling to pickup the crossing point.. think just swapping this will finish off the problem?

Anyone have any ideas on the flickering controlled lamps? Lamp Strobe #2 is tied into the repair area. I can double check the swapped parts.. (R28, R107).. but any idea on the flickering? The symptom wasn't visible before.

I'm not really familiar with the concept behind how the lights are driven from the MPU.

The battery is long gone Replaced by a remote holder. (I didn't really follow what was the nvram replacement for it..). There certainly was evidence of heat from the resistor next to U14. I don't have a way of monitoring a standing pulse, I only have a logic probe.

There is an aux board in the game, but I didn't look at what's driven from it. I did not notice any difference across the playfield in terms of some lights flickering vs others. I will see if the aux lamps differ.

All I know at this point is the flicker follows the MPU board.. Is the strobe the path to sniff along if the lights are flickering?

It looks like your classic LED flicker... but it's all incandescent

Replaced u14 and no change in symptoms

Still about 40secs or so between 6th and 7th flash and strobing controlled lamps

I'm trying to test each component in the suspect areas and toning out traces... But am stumped at this point

The only slightly off thing so far is r107 is a 3.3k resistor but tests at 2.2k while in circuit. But I popped it out and it tests fine. I thought resistors were pretty consistent at testing in circuit?