(Topic ID: 351696)

Bally Minizag

By mikiemike1

18 days ago


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#1 18 days ago

Hello,

My MiniZag was working fine. Now when I press the replay button, nothing happens.

If I press the left flipper button, the AC Relay locks on and the machine lights up. The hold unit doesn’t actuate so it doesn’t throw the game over and start relays.

Any thoughts would be appreciated and thanks.

-mikiemike

#2 18 days ago
Quoted from mikiemike1:

when I press the replay button, nothing happens

If the Replay button doesn't trip the Start relay,
Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-big-shot-repair#post-6305153
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156

#3 15 days ago

Thanks HowardR. I am having a hard time matching the path of the spider legs on the Ball Count Unit Disk. The wires back there are all sorts of grey. Also, do particular legs need to be on certain pads to complete the circuit I am jumping? If that makes sense.

Any tips?

Thanks for your help!

-mikiemike

#4 15 days ago

HowardR is awesome, so I'm sure he will help resolve your problem.

My mind went right away to (Do you have any credits on the machine?) My Fireball won't play games sometimes when my grandkids are over and it is always because it runs out of credits. My Fireball is the only machine I have set up right now to take quarters.

#5 15 days ago

Dan, The machine is credited up. No dice there, but thanks!

#6 15 days ago
Quoted from mikiemike1:

Thanks HowardR. I am having a hard time matching the path of the spider legs on the Ball Count Unit Disk

Are you sure the problem is in the Ball Count Unit? There are several other components in the circuit I highlighted.

#7 15 days ago

hmmm, when I apply power to my machine, (I use a Christmas light foot-switch) Either the left flipper button - or the replay button will light the GI ... I close the zero credit switch for "freeplay"

I wonder if your replay button is dirty or lost its connection through a Jones plug or something

I didn't look at what energizes either the "anti-cheat relay" or the "hold relay" ... looking to see if game manual is available

#8 13 days ago

Try these alligator jumper tests on the backbox Jones plugs.
Connect one jumper end to the white-black wire on the 16 pin jones plug. This jumper end will stay connected to this wire throughout the tests.
Connect the other jumper end to the white-orange wire next to the white-black on the same Jones plug.
Push replay button to start game.
Does the machine try to reset?
When the ball count unit advances, does it’s end of stroke switch pulse the hold relay?
Once the relay is pulsed, does it stay pulled in?
Move the jumper end off of the white-orange wire and connect it to the gray-white on the 20 pin jones plug. Repeat replay button test.
Move the jumper end off of the gray-white wire and connect it to the orange-white wire on the 18 pin Jones plug. Repeat replay button test.
Does the machine start and reset in all 3 jumper test positions?

#9 12 days ago

DaveH

Quoted from pinballdaveh:

Try these alligator jumper tests on the backbox Jones plugs.
Connect one jumper end to the white-black wire on the 16 pin jones plug. This jumper end will stay connected to this wire throughout the tests.
Connect the other jumper end to the white-orange wire next to the white-black on the same Jones plug.
Push replay button to start game.
Does the machine try to reset?

*** Yes, the anti cheat relay pulls in, it subtracts one credit from the replay unit, pulls in the ball count unit, pulls in and holds the ball count relay and actuates the reset coil and if I place points on the score reels it resets them to zero’s, hold relay does not pull in ***

When the ball count unit advances, does it’s end of stroke switch pulse the hold relay?
Once the relay is pulsed, does it stay pulled in?

*** The ball count unit eos does not actuate the hold relay; it doesn’t pull in or hold ***

Move the jumper end off of the white-orange wire and connect it to the gray-white on the 20 pin jones plug. Repeat replay button test.

*** Same happens as in first jump scenario,and eos does not pull in hold relay***

Move the jumper end off of the gray-white wire and connect it to the orange-white wire on the 18 pin Jones plug. Repeat replay button test.

*** Same happens as in first jump scenario,and eos does not pull in hold relay***

Does the machine start and reset in all 3 jumper test positions?

*** As described above. Could it be that the transistor on the hold relay has gone bad and is open? I have tested it in circuit and it reads 15 ohms, but I have not taken it out of circuit.

When I force the hold relay closed, the machine does come to life somewhat…

Any thoughts?

Thanks so much for the help.

#10 12 days ago

The component that you measured is a power resistor not a transistor. The resistance measurement of 15 ohms is correct.
The hold relay coil now has to be measured.
It should read as 100 ohms.
If it measures 0 ohms, then check the tilt switches for a closed switch shorting out the coil.

#11 11 days ago

DaveH

With the jumpers as described above in place:

The resistance in circuit of the resistor on the hold relay is 15 ohms.

The resistance of the selenoid on the hold relay reads 0. I proceeded to check the following tilt switches:

The door slam switch: closed and has continuity

The ball tilt assembly: open, but records continuity when the ball makes contact with the switch

The plumb tilt: open but registers continuity when the plumb touches housing

The three bounce switches on the bottom board. All closed and registers continuity when closed and none when open.

The bounce switch under the playfield is closed.

The game is still in the same state as first described but with the following changes:

The game will not reset on ball one

The game will reset on ball two-five and the tilt lite no longer comes up on these balls

I went through all the switches and wires. All seem to operate correctly. With the wires, there is no overlapping shorts or solder splash.

I checked and recleaned all the Jones Plugs.

I do have to manually advance the ball count unit three times (on the third go) to get to ball two lite.

The hold unit just doesn’t pull in.

Any ideas?

#12 11 days ago

Double check the under playfield panel tilt switch. It will have orange & yellow-brown wires connected. This switch should be normally open and if it’s closed it could be the short across the coil. If unsure about the coil reading, then unsolder one side of the coil and test.

#13 11 days ago
Quoted from mikiemike1:

DaveH

The three bounce switches on the bottom board. All closed and registers continuity when closed and none when open.

The game is still in the same state as first described but with the following changes:
The game will not reset on ball one
The game will reset on ball two-five and the tilt lite no longer comes up on these balls
I went through all the switches and wires. All seem to operate correctly. With the wires, there is no overlapping shorts or solder splash.

I do have to manually advance the ball count unit three times (on the third go) to get to ball two lite.
The hold unit just doesn’t pull in.
Any ideas?

Can you provide a pic of the Ball count showing the End of stroke switch ? I wonder if it is positioned on the wrong side of the pin. https://www.pinrepair.com/em/blystep2.jpg

One of what appears to be a slam switch on the schematic shows it to be normally open. called the "panel tilt" .... (I think if it was that though it wouldn't reset on any ball)

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#14 11 days ago

Yes, I did notice that the panel switch on the schematic needs to be open. Caught that after I posted.

Here’s the pic.

I noticed that once I move the Ball Count Unit out of the zero position, manually, the ball count relay releases from being energized.

The BCU only resets, it doesn’t advance, I would assume because the hold relay is not energized.

IMG_3624 (resized).jpegIMG_3624 (resized).jpeg

#15 11 days ago

The zero ohm reading on the coil could be that’s the coils resistance and not shorted from the tilt switches.

#16 10 days ago

DaveH,

Should I test out of circuit? It does fire when I manually energize it from another selenoid’s lug.

#17 10 days ago

Chas10e

The eos is actuated by the bottom of that pawl in the picture.

#18 10 days ago
Quoted from mikiemike1:

Chas10e
The eos is actuated by the bottom of that pawl in the picture.

Yeah you'r correct, I was thinking about the "ball count unit zero" switch .... it appears to be correct

the manual: https://www.ipdb.org/files/1606/Bally_1968_MiniZag_Installation_General_Operation_Instructions.pdf states that is actually the "sub zero position" in "order of operation step 1.(C.) then step 2.(B.)

So when you manually step it up one position the number 1 ball in play should be lit

#19 10 days ago

Here’s some more things to check;
Backbox jones plugs
20 pin jones plug gray-yellow wire ( 3 positions up from the unused pin )
16 pin jones plug blue wire
Clean pins and check connections.
Switches to check:
On the hold relay, a normally switch with a blue wire and a gray-yellow wire.
And the switch(s) that the blue wire is fed from on the reset relay a normally closed switch with a blue wire & a white-green wire connected, or the make/break switch on the start relay that feeds the reset relay switch.
Clean and inspect switches for strong switch closures. Adjust switches if needed.

#20 8 days ago

Guys, I will test asap… work has been a bit much as of late. Ttytt I would rather be doing this!

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