(Topic ID: 209018)

Bally KNOCKOUT - will not start

By songofsixpence

6 years ago


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IMG_20180207_173957202 (resized).jpg
CoinRelay (resized).jpg
IMG_3448[1] (resized).JPG
IMG_3449[1] (resized).JPG
IMG_3450[1] (resized).JPG
Wizard score motor (resized).jpg

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#1 6 years ago

I've been at it for hours, so hoping I can't get steered in the right direction.

Bally Knockout. I don't have the schematic, but I found one for "Amigo" which looks about the same, particularly where I am looking.

I push the credit button, and the coin, credit and reset relays will all trigger. The reset relay will lock on, but score motor will not spin up. The score motor does work - I can get it to spin through a cycle if I activate the "HOLE" relay

I have gone through all the switches, all look to be in their proper state, and cleaned with a dremel wire brush. All the solder joints seem solid, and I can't find anything shorted. I have alligator-clip wires, but I'm not exactly sure how to go about using them to test.

Going through Clay's guide, it looks that the RESET relay should start the score motor.

So, what am I missing, or what should I try next?

-d

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Here's a color coded schematic from ipdb.org for Wizard, the next Bally game:

Like yours, it shows that switches on the Coin and Reset relays should both start the score motor. One of them should close the circuit between the white wire and the red-yellow wire to get the score motor started. Since the Credit relay fires, you know the white wire is good. So the problem has to be in either the Reset relay switch or the Coin relay switch, or the wires leading to or from them.
/Mark

Yeah, that color schematic is nice.
I've looked at the Reset relay switch, and it seems right. I can squeeze an alligator clip into that one, and I get no change.
I'll look at the red-yel wires again

#7 6 years ago

OK - I get like .3-.4 ohm between the red-yellow wire on the motor, and the white lugs on the relays. No change when I push the relay closed.

#9 6 years ago

0.0 - 0.2 when touched together.

For what it's worth, I traced out that white wire. it daisy chains from the RESET to the 2nd COIN CHUTE to the COIN. From there, it doesn't actually connect to anything else. It does connect to the coin door jones plug, but that isn't actually connected to anything

#11 6 years ago

Hmmm not exactly. The blue-orange and Black-white are one off on the jones plug on mine.

My credit button wires look to be pink-black and white-blue

#12 6 years ago

For those who prefer a visual, here's a short video

I assume PBR has a schematic for this title. Can probably have it by Thursday.

#14 6 years ago

That one is close - but I don't actually have a 3rd coin chute.

I guess my question is where does the white wire connect to the yellow rail?

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Love those lift out playfields...

Actually, the control board... ? Maybe I should have had a disclaimer "Don't try this at home" but my back thanks me

Quoted from MarkG:

On the schematic from Billc479 above and on the Wizard schematic I used earlier (although not shown in the section I posted) the white wire goes through the normally closed sections of make/break switches on the 2nd and 3rd coin chute relays to the main yellow supply wire.

yes, which makes sense to me. I cannot find any way the white wire connects to the yellow rail at all.
I have thought about adding a switch, and connecting it to the 2nd coin relay, (there is no 3rd coin relay) as pictured in the Amigo and Wizard schematics, but I wonder if there is really something different in the Knockout schematics.

Quoted from MarkG:

Have you ever seen this game work? If not we have to assume that it may have been hacked at some point which makes the number of possible problems much greater.

Negative. and yes there are previous hacks / mods, including credit wheel had been removed.
Then again, there's this:
The Coin Relay has 3 silver wires tied together on one side of the bottom switch. The other side of the switch doesn't seem to have any solder residue, or any other indication it was ever used.
CoinRelay (resized).jpgCoinRelay (resized).jpg

Quoted from MarkG:

This is troubling. If you can trace from the score motor red-yellow wire through the Reset, 2nd Coin and Coin relay switches to the white wire, and the white wire goes nowhere that's a problem. You can get the score motor running by closing the relay switches tied to the yellow wire, but the white wire apparently is floating which it shouldn't be.

Yes, we are on the same page.
Also I don't mind if this machine had previous kludges, but I worry most if there were an attempted kludge, that didnt work, before this game headed for retirement in a dusty, old basement.

I am reaching the opinion that the white wire needs to be connected to the yellow through a switch.

#18 6 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Ugh. Someone else's project. Definitely order up that schematic.

Will do.

With nothing to lose, I took that silver wire bundle off that lug, and cobbled together a hack, connecting the white wire on one side, and the yellow on the other. now, it sorta-kinda works a bit more. At least the motor starts, although it doesn't complete a reset sequence.

Anyway, I'm through tinkering with it until the schematic arrives.

#19 6 years ago

Got the schematic - it doesn't look a whole lot different from the Amigo

IMG_20180207_173957202 (resized).jpgIMG_20180207_173957202 (resized).jpg

Like the Wizard schematic, it shows the credit button connected to a white-orange and blue-orange pair.

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