(Topic ID: 239636)

Bally KISS sound board problem

By igo4rams

5 years ago


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  • Latest reply 10 months ago by B-low99
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#1 5 years ago

I was hoping someone could help me locate the problem with my 1979 Bally Kiss sound board. I will buy a new board if I can't fix it but would like to try and fix it first. I do not have a scope. But if someone could tell me what area the problem could be, I will replace that/those parts and see if it works.

The board works for the most part. I replaced all the large caps and re soldered the connector pins. The sounds seem to run a little fast and at the start of ball play and at the end of the game the last note of the tune never shuts off. The last note just plays on and on and on. That is until another tone is played by hitting the start button or a switch or the game is turned off.

Thanks for you time

#3 5 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Sounds like the sustain circuitry on the sound board isn't working properly.
Check that the sustain pot isn't dirty - rotate it full swing either way a few times then put it back where it was.
The 555 timer chip at U7 creates the sustain timing. It's output (pin 3) should pulse to 11 volts for 5 milliseconds when tones are played then go to zero volts. So measure the voltage at pin 3 of U7 to make sure its around zero volts when no sounds should be playing.
This 555 output then goes to the sustain mute circuitry so tones smoothly and quickly decay - the sustain pot is in this circuit if you're looking at the schematics.

I did move the sustain pot and it acts like a volume pot. The sound moves up and down when I turn it up and down. I will check the pin 3 of U7 as you say. If I get voltage there should I replace the U7 chip?

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Sounds like the problem is U7 and/or the circuitry controlling it.

Not yet, you need to determine if the U7 chip is just doing what its told. So if you measure around 11 volts on its pin 3 output then you'll need to measure its input trigger pin which is pin 2.
A high to low to high pulse on pin 2 will trigger the U7 timer chip output to go high for 5ms. If pin 2 is stuck low, the timer will never time out.
If you measure close to 12 volts on pin 2, then closely inspect resistor R21 and capacitor C16 and their soldering. If ok, then replace U7.
If you measure close to zero volts on pin 2 of U7 then the problem may be around transistor Q2. The transistor is being switched on for some reason and you need to find out why.
BTW, what voltage do you measure on test point TP3 of the sound board?

Good info, Thanks. What I found:

TP3 12.8 volts DC
U7 pin 2 12.9 volts DC
U7 pin 3 .0 to .34 volts DC
R-21 115k good
C16 could not test can't find my cap tester at this time

all solder look good U7 legs look like they have been hot?

Looks like replacing U7 is my best option? Next, order one and a socket. I will post update later.

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Your voltages around U7 look normal, 11 volts on pin 3 of U7 would have pointed to a problem around U7 but you measured near zero volts which is ok. Your issue looks further downstream. Do diodes CR1 and CR2 test ok?
Post some clear pictures of this sound board front and back.
Was this sound board ever working in your possession or did you purchase the machine with it malfunctioning?

CR-1 .755 and 0 the other way
CR-2 .954 and 0 the other way

Hope these pics help.

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#9 5 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

These diode readings are with your meter set to diode mode and the machine is off right? When you say "0" does that mean no change in meter reading or is the meter telling you it's a short circuit?
Typical forward voltage drop across diodes is around 0.6 measured one way (black meter lead on the banded side of the diodes). Your readings look high especially CR2. If you have spare 1N4148 diodes replace them, if not you can try 1N4004 diodes for test.

I should have said, no reading the other way. Yes meter on diode. I know I have some 1N4004s not sure if I have any 1N4148s

#10 5 years ago

Replaced both CR1 and CR2 with 1n4148s and no change. I have .71 and .72 readings now. The last note/tone on just ball start and end of last ball just keeps playing on and on.

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from jj44114:

If I remember right , U8 causes the sustain forever issue.

I know I will have to order a U8 chip. Thanks for the info

#14 5 years ago

No sockets yet, so I can't change U1 with U8.
Got 50k on R10 not 150k
Got .35 volts on R7 bottom with no sound and up to 6.3 with sounds

Do I have a bad R10?

#16 5 years ago

Just removed R10 from board and it is good 150k?

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from whizz:

I am no expert but I had the same problem and a friend linked it to my aftermarket driver board.Put in original Bally board problem fixed.

I have the original driver board. So that must not be it.

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from whizz:

Just a thought.Mine drove me crazy.I had to get expert help.

Thanks for the thoughts. I will work on it a while, if I can't win I will buy a new board.

#23 5 years ago

Update; changed U8 and no change, still plays last note on and on. Not sure if this means anything but it doesn’t play the last note on and on when the game is turned on just first ball and last ball drain? I am using a after market mpu.

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#24 5 years ago

I switch the mpu out and no change. Also changed dip switch 8 and 32 and no real change. Did notice most tunes play last note on and on.

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

There are two ways the sound board goes silent.
One, certain sounds/patterns finish up by selecting a high frequency 'tone' way beyond what humans can hear. You can see this with an oscilloscope.
Two, the sustain (really it's a decay function, not sustain) gently mutes the current audible tone being played.
So the reason the start game and end game tunes play forever is those tune patterns don't finish with the inaudible high frequency tone. And your decay circuit is malfunctioning meaning the last tone of those patterns is never muted.
What happens to normal sounds and the start/end game tunes if you disconnect one leg of resistor R11 from the circuit?

I removed one leg on R11, checked R11 and it was good at 1M. Powered up game and no change to sounds, still plays last note on and on. Are you thinking change U7 the 555?

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

With R11 disconnected, you've isolated U7 off the sustain circuit so U7 is not your problem.
It sounds like the RT2 sustain pot has lost connection to ground which results in the sustain circuit being unable to mute.
Reconnect resistor R11.
With the game powered on and the last note of the start or end game tune playing, measure the voltage on the lower leg of resistor R12 which is to the left of the RT2 pot. With the RT2 pot adjusted fully clockwise you should measure 12 volts on the lower leg of R12. As you adjust the pot anticlockwise it should end up at zero volts on R12. Is this what you are seeing?
BTW the picture above of your sound board has RT2 set fully clockwise which will play notes on and on. The sweet spot is generally around 11pm to 12pm on the dial.

Thanks so much. I was sure I moved that pot a few times and did not notice any change. The sound works like it should now. Just wish it could be a little louder. I moved the volume pot and it is working but not as loud as you would think it should be. I did replace the speaker, here is a pic. Could that be the problem? I matched it up with the old one.

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#32 5 years ago

Hooked up another 8 ohm speaker and sound was lower. Back to the one in the pic. Sound is ok just not high as I would like. Maybe that is normal? You can hear the sound ok but if there were music or other games playing, well.

#37 5 years ago

Earlier in the thread you said the following, so maybe changing U8 fixed the issue but you didn't know it:

I think your right.

So are you with barakandI and I should change the LM741 ? Is there a way to test it?

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

I haven't had to change any LM741 on these boards, but I would first do what barakandl mentions in the below post. Ballys original design of connecting the + input of the LM741 to ground was a bad idea. The input used as a reference (pin 3 in this design) should be connected to half the power-supply voltage which Bally corrected on later boards and what the mod does. This should give a better amplification range.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/playboy-as-2518-32-sound-probs#post-3159929

[Edit] I just noticed your sound board already implements the mod. Change the LM741 and see how you go.

LM741 is in the mail, I will post what happens after I change it. Thanks everyone for your help

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