(Topic ID: 271380)

Bally Kiss random tilts when the (A) standup is hit.

By UFO

3 years ago


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  • 14 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by BigAl56
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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#1 3 years ago

Pretty much what the title says, game plays fine , but sometimes it will tilt when the A standup is hit.
Any thought appreciated.
Thanx

#2 3 years ago

Grant is there a disc capacitor on that target?

#3 3 years ago

Nope, it has a diode, all the standup have diodes.

#4 3 years ago

Check your coin switches. Make sure no part of those switches are shorted to the coin door.

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from UFO:

game plays fine , but sometimes it will tilt when the A standup is hit.

The "A" target is #15 in the switch matrix- row 6, column 1. Using Pinwiki https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Switch_Matrix and page 17 in the manual you can see that the tilt switch is #7 which is in row six, column 0.

I'd be checking switches in that row 23 (I rollover), 31 (Left spinner), 39 (Right thumper bumper) as well as the coin switches that dothedoo mentioned (which are all in column 1).

There is a technique about troubleshooting the switch matrix involving drawing a rectangle through the problem switches but I don't understand it enough to explain it. Might be worth searching around a bit for it.

Bally_Stern_switch_matrix (resized).pngBally_Stern_switch_matrix (resized).pngKissBallySwitchNumbers (resized).pngKissBallySwitchNumbers (resized).png
#6 3 years ago

Right pop sw. 39 has a capacitor on it.... if it's never been replaced, it's time (it's 42 years old!!). A dodgy cap can affect other switches in its row.

Actually replace all of them. If the tilt bob happens to have one on it, you can probably clip it off if you don't like your tilts super sensitive.

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

There is a technique about troubleshooting the switch matrix involving drawing a rectangle through the problem switches but I don't understand it enough to explain it. Might be worth searching around a bit for it.[quoted image][quoted image]

Usually when this problem happens there is a shorted diode in the switch matrix. The rectangle technique is used to troubleshoot a diode issue.A0735457-703B-4552-ABDF-D75C6366FB3E (resized).pngA0735457-703B-4552-ABDF-D75C6366FB3E (resized).png
We know the tilt and “A” standup are two “corners” of the rectangle. Looking at the Kiss switch matrix you’ll find these two switches on the same row, in columns ST0 and ST1.

That means the other two corners of the rectangle will also be in columns ST0 and ST1. For the problem to occur, three of the switches in the rectangle have to be closed for the fourth (tilt in this case) to trigger.

Since this is a single ball game there are no balls sitting in locks or in the trough holding switches closed. The only other switches that can be held closed are the drop targets.

All four drops are in column ST0 with the tilt switch, and only one can be a corner of the rectangle.

We need to find one more switch in column ST1 that could be closed to complete the rectangle. Coincidentally, the switch with the shorted diode will be the switch on the opposite corner of the rectangle as the switch that’s malfunctioning.

Three possible rectangle switches in column ST1 are the coin switches. The fourth is the “D” standup. I suggested the coin switches because it’s easy for them to be mangled and short to the coin mech or door, which is grounded. The “D” target could have a shorted cap and cause this too.

An easy test would be to start a game, knock down drop targets one at a time, hitting the “A” standup after each one. If it tilts the problem switch is in column ST1 on the same row as the target that was dropped.

#8 3 years ago

Ok , first drop target then the A stand up causes tilt

#9 3 years ago

Is that the top drop or bottom drop?

#10 3 years ago

Bottom drop

#11 3 years ago

Check the coin switches. No diodes on these so a stuck switch would cause this problem. Also look to see if anything is shorted to the coin mechs or coin door.

#12 3 years ago

Doth has this nailed. The key to solving this is that the coin switches are not shown on the playfield switch matrix and you have to pencil them in. They also do not have diodes so a stuck coin switch is the number one suspect for problems like this.

To make the game tilt I have to travel from ST0 to I4. However tilt is closed for repairs so I have to detour. I leave ST0 travel up ST0 to a drop target that's knocked down, travel over the Iline to a stuck coin switch with no diode to stop me, to ST1, then trough the A target and arrive at I4 bringing a tilt with me.

#13 3 years ago

I think I fixed it might have been the left coin credit switch, put new diode on bottom
Drop target and seems to be working.
Thanx for all the responses.
L8r
UfO

#14 3 years ago

You can modify the wiring on your coin switches by moving the common connection wire to the unused NC lug and solder in a diode between NC and common. This will eliminate 90% of future switch matrix issues.

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