(Topic ID: 227806)

Bally Joust - Help at the Round Table? Repairs needed

By Colsond3

5 years ago


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  • 47 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by chas10e
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#1 5 years ago

Brought home a 1969 Bally Joust from the York show...a known project. Game will not boot/cycle or even light up. Plug it in it does nothing. Transformer looks satisfactory. Jones plugs look good with no broken connections. Do need a schematic if anybody can assist (it didn't come with one), and I don't see one on IPDB.

Anybody have an idea where to start to get some juice to this thing? Would like to get the game up and running, and perhaps a restoration in this little guy's future. Any help is always appreciated.

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#2 5 years ago

Transformer...

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#3 5 years ago

Found a few hacks (not that would prevent it from at least powering up as far as I know). Geez...looks like they used wire from a lamp or old extension cord.

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#4 5 years ago

Is power getting to the transformer? Is the transformer putting out power for relays&solenoids and for lights?

Beyond that, I'll need to see a high quality scan of the schematic from (for example) Staples ($2) or Kinkos ($6)

#5 5 years ago

Another hack? A leaf switch in the ball gate? Looks like they just ran some more extension cord behind the playfield.

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#7 5 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Is power getting to the transformer? Is the transformer putting out power for relays&solenoids and for lights?
Beyond that, I'll need to see a high quality scan of the schematic from (for example) Staples ($2) or Kinkos ($6)

Thanks for chiming in. I've never tested a transformer. Looking up something to guide me now.

#8 5 years ago

There are other possibilities, but a voltmeter will work well. Do you have one?

#9 5 years ago

Yep.

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#10 5 years ago

Steve Young @ PBR has a nice schematic / manual & score motor chart for Joust

check you have line voltage going into the transformer (120V AC) could be a bad fuse there. lights pass through the anti-cheat relay (both GI & feature lamps) & the 50V solenoid power passes through a slam tilt on the door & a "coin bounce" by the right front leg inside coin-door

if you have the bottom panel in service position you need to jumper that switch closed on the Jones plug

EDIT: some stuff here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-docs-exist-for-a-1969-bally-joust

re-Edit pics of "coin bounce"

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#11 5 years ago

Thanks Chas, I’ll check out PBR. The fuse in front of the transformer should be an 8A FA or SB?

#12 5 years ago

So if I push on the metal tab on the other side of the coil of the anti-cheat relay, the lights do go on. But I have to hold it down.

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#13 5 years ago

check all your slam-tilts & the "coin bounce" also the holding contact on the anti-cheat relay itself

also normally either the left flipper button or the credit button would turn on G.I. if you have machine plugged in

oh fuse ... standard 8A fuse ok

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from chas10e:

Steve Young @ PBR has a nice schematic / manual & score motor chart for Joust
check you have line voltage going into the transformer (120V AC) could be a bad fuse there. lights pass through the anti-cheat relay (both GI & feature lamps) & the 50V solenoid power passes through a slam tilt on the door & a "coin bounce" by the right front leg inside coin-door
if you have the bottom panel in service position you need to jumper that switch closed on the Jones plug
EDIT: some stuff here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-docs-exist-for-a-1969-bally-joust
re-Edit pics of "coin bounce"[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

In your pictures, you have the Jones plug receiver grounded correct? And you have the black COM lead from the meter on the proximal lug of the coin bounce? And I should get a reading of 1 when testing the two pins on the Jones plug that you are?

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#15 5 years ago

Does your game have a toggle switch? This one doesn’t and it looks like I’m pushing directly on that coin bounce switch with the button under the cabinet. And this one is a pushbutton like a Gottlieb. It looks different than the inside of my Vampire (3rd pic below), which has a toggle.

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#16 5 years ago

there is no on/off toggle switch . yeah that's the "coin bounce" protruding though the bottom box

the switch contacts should be closed so with one meter lead on either switchblade I get continuity on either of the two Jones plug pins there.

the jumper wire I used just happened to be green it isn't "grounded" it is jumper-ed simulating a closed switch

I think the idea of the coin bounce is someone couldn't pick the machine up then slam it down to actuate the coin switches & get games for free (if risking throwing your back out is actually free )

#17 5 years ago

hmmmmmmmm the button is missing on mine ? but can stick a screwdriver in there to open the contact & turn the G.I. /machine off

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#18 5 years ago
Quoted from chas10e:

the switch contacts should be closed so with one meter lead on either switchblade I get continuity on either of the two Jones plug pins there.

I’m getting continuity also on the Jones as you had it.

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#19 5 years ago
Quoted from chas10e:

hmmmmmmmm the button is missing on mine ? but can stick a screwdriver in there to open the contact & turn the G.I. /machine off

So you were plugging the machine in every time you wanted to play it?

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

So you were plugging the machine in every time you wanted to play it?

I use a foot switch for like a Christmas tree lights https://www.walmart.com/ip/Holiday-Time-Lighted-Foot-Switch/34313282

think it has a 6A fuse in it and it doesn't blow ( or hadn't yet anyways )

#21 5 years ago

Was this the one from Jeff Morehead?
Had my eye on it.
Looks like the fuse holders have been changed. Yeah, sounds like a slam switch open.

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Was this the one from Jeff Morehead?
Had my eye on it.
Looks like the fuse holders have been changed. Yeah, sounds like a slam switch open.

No, bought from Don. Deal done before York, and he brought the game for me. Nice to meet you at the show.

All the slam switches should be closed, correct?

#23 5 years ago

Oh, OK. Yeah, Don had one for sale as well. I'm not a Bally expert, but I would think the slam switches are all NC.

#24 5 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Oh, OK. Yeah, Don had one for sale as well. I'm not a Bally expert, but I would think the slam switches are all NC.

Cool. I was going to look at it again tonight. I’ll get back to the thread later. Thanks.

#25 5 years ago

So I count 6 slams. All of these should be closed?

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#26 5 years ago

on mine, the one on bottom side of playfield is open an activates the (player) Tilt on the camshaft. The other 5 are closed contacts and are essentially "slam tilts" opening the anti-cheat relay.

Is your 10A fuse for the 50V buss good? if that was bad the anti-cheat or any other solenoid wont work (top one of the 3 in front) .... my meter is acting up so I can't get a reliable reading on mine

#27 5 years ago

Usually the ones on the playfield are NO. I'm referencing my experience with Gottlieb EMs. I'll defer to the Bally guys here.

1 week later
#28 5 years ago
Quoted from chas10e:

on mine, the one on bottom side of playfield is open an activates the (player) Tilt on the camshaft. The other 5 are closed contacts and are essentially "slam tilts" opening the anti-cheat relay.

Back to it...so bottom PF slam open and all other 5 closed? Checking and adjusting now. I think others were open.

Quoted from chas10e:

Is your 10A fuse for the 50V buss good? if that was bad the anti-cheat or any other solenoid wont work (top one of the 3 in front) .

I’m pretty sure it was good, but I’ll check that out too.

#29 5 years ago

Cleaning up nice even after the first light round...this thing was filthy. Didn’t even strip the playfield yet. My little helper was pitching in too. A little before and after...

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#30 5 years ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

Back to it...so bottom PF slam open and all other 5 closed? Checking and adjusting now. I think others were open.

I’m pretty sure it was good, but I’ll check that out too.

yeah that's how mine is setup, I manually operated each switch to see if it shut the GI down , the switch on the bottom of the playfield didn't do anything until I pressed the credit button to start a game and THEN when closed the "tilt" light came on.

#31 5 years ago

Damn. Someone installed the flippers backward! I've seen this a few times before, but it always leaves me scratching my head. It cleaned up nice though.

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Damn. Someone installed the flippers backward! I've seen this a few times before, but it always leaves me scratching my head. It cleaned up nice though.

I'm guessing a previous owner got so good they could play it standing on their head.

#33 5 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Someone installed the flippers backward! I've seen this a few times before, but it always leaves me scratching my head.

I noticed that. You or your buddy at Pinball Parts carry new ones? I want to replace them anyway.

#34 5 years ago

They most likely swapped the flippers on purpose because they set screws had dug into the shafts making flipper angle adjustment difficult/impossible. Maybe they didn't notice that only one screw holds the flipper plastics on the shafts or maybe they were just too lazy to swap the plastics on the shafts.

#35 5 years ago
Quoted from chas10e:

Is your 10A fuse for the 50V buss good? if that was bad the anti-cheat or any other solenoid wont work

So that 10A fuse was bad. Is that supposed to be FA? I replaced it, and a few solenoids are firing when I engage the stopper on each coil manually on the transformer board, but a lot of them still aren’t, including the flippers.

And the game GI still isn’t lighting up unless I manually engage the anti-cheat coil.

#36 5 years ago

And...if anybody could send me some hi-res pics of their cabinet I would really appreciate it. This one was painted over, and I want to restencil it.

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#37 5 years ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

So that 10A fuse was bad. Is that supposed to be FA? I replaced it, and a few solenoids are firing when I engage the stopper on each coil manually on the transformer board, but a lot of them still aren’t, including the flippers.
And the game GI still isn’t lighting up unless I manually engage the anti-cheat coil.

Yeah standard Fast Acting fuse (out of curiosity do you have placards there for Amp Values ? )

The fuse by the Close flipper solenoid is a 1.25A Slow-Blow according to the schematic

Do you have that 8 prong Jones-plug plugged in, if in service position it won't reach however the coin door plug WILL reach & the credit button should pull in the anti-cheat IF there are credits & what I thought the coin bounce switch is jumped as shown in post #10 ... looking at the schematic it may actually be "the shut off" switch

Clicking the linked game gives some good pics of the cabinet

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#38 5 years ago
Quoted from chas10e:

Yeah standard Fast Acting fuse (out of curiosity do you have placards there for Amp Values ? )

I do, but they are nearly black. I can see the values. Just replaced all fuses through the whole game.

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#39 5 years ago
Quoted from chas10e:

The fuse by the Close flipper solenoid is a 1.25A Slow-Blow according to the schematic

Replacing that now. The fuse clip snapped off, so I had to replace the holder.

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#40 5 years ago
Quoted from chas10e:

Clicking the linked game gives some good pics of the cabinet

I saw those pics. Looks like the same ones from IPDB. I was trying to get a straight on shot so I could gauge the dimensions of the artwork to redraft for the stencil. I guess I might have to just use those. The backbox will be tricky from those crappy photos. It’s a little more intricate with the shield.

#41 5 years ago

And there is life!! One of the score reels is buzzing, so a switch must be stuck on the playfield somewhere. Thanks for all the help so far guys. Much appreciated.

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#42 5 years ago

I couldn't get any good side cabinet shots , hope these can help

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#43 5 years ago

I believe that the left flipper button turns on the machine.
This is in the manual. Do you have a copy of that?

#44 5 years ago
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#45 5 years ago
Quoted from Brian_G:

I believe that the left flipper button turns on the machine.
This is in the manual. Do you have a copy of that?

Unfortunately I do not. Any shot of you hooking me up with a PDF version of it?

#46 5 years ago
Quoted from Brian_G:

I believe that the left flipper button turns on the machine.
This is in the manual. Do you have a copy of that?

Also, when I plug the game in it automatically turns on. At least the G.I. does and it begins normally when I hit the start button. My left flipper by itself does nothing. Not sure if it is bypassed somehow.

On my Vampire, you flip the toggle, then hit both flipper buttons and the G.I. lights. Then you can start a game.

#47 5 years ago

The left flipper button has 2 sets of contact, I would imagine the set that will close the circuit for the anti-cheat relay is dirty

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