(Topic ID: 16305)

Bally Joust, 1969, Oh boy...


By desertT1

7 years ago



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  • 126 posts
  • 39 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by desertT1
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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There are 126 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 5 years ago

Long time since I have worked on this. Actually, there was a pause, then I made some progress with a toothpick, and then a long pause. Now it's amateur hour in the airbrush dept. I'm going back over some of my earliest areas because they weren't very good. I'm not looking forward to all the black border, but the first solid area went pretty well.

IMG_0741[1].JPG
#52 5 years ago

Hang in there,
It's going to look great!

#53 5 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

6. How blasphemous is it to put LED's in an old EM like this?

I'm going to go out on a limb here:
Everyone either tries to make the oldies a restored original, or tries to get LEDs that imitate incandescent bulbs. What if you went over the top on LEDs and color instead? Vibrant color choices, maybe metallic sparkle paint and other fancy schmancy mods. A unique one of a kind creation. Sick colors. It could work if you put some thought into it.

#54 5 years ago

The colors were so faded that matching with the originals was over my head at this point. I have picked colors that should be close, but will not be exact.

I also ended up getting LED's for every spot. Not the retro ones either, bright, bold colors.

#55 5 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

I'm not looking forward to all the black border,

Get some 3M fine line tape for that,pick your width.
Its great for tight turns.
http://www.3m.com/product/information/Scotch-Fine-Line-Tape.html

#56 5 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Get some 3M fine line tape for that,pick your width.Its great for tight turns. http://www.3m.com/product/information/Scotch-Fine-Line-Tape.html

Thanks. Is that for covering it up, or creating the border so I can paint the thin stripes?

#57 5 years ago

neat project! call around to vinyl sign making places, most of them will have a hand scanner and can scan your backbox and cabinet and print you off full size scans of your cabinet. get 3-4 done per area then you can create stencils for painting the cab. i did this for a gauntlet arcade and they scanned me a file, had my kid fix the bad areas with her art program and pen pad ( corell pro??) and then they printed off new side art ( i then found them online for same price LOL!!as what all my efforts were)

#58 5 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

Thanks. Is that for covering it up, or creating the border so I can paint the thin stripes?

3 lines side by side then pull the middle one,masking out the outer perimeters.
You fine line your white to the edge of the black,lay the fine line to the edge of the previous fine line over the black,then fine line to the edge of your 2nd fine line ,then pull the middle one out for a perfect straight line.
▌▌< Looks like that after removing the middle line. The middle will be the only getting the black and the rest is masked off,leaving a crisp black line.

#59 5 years ago

This group might need another coat, we will see. At least I am making progress now, I want this playable and inside getting use.

image.jpg
1 month later
#60 5 years ago

More progress. It is slow, but it is happening. I have a spot that is not exposed to sawdust (unlike the workshop) so it should be able to get more done. The wall section is pretty brutal, but the white should be done in another several days, then I can do the same thing to the bricks in the wall.

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#61 5 years ago

That was from yesterday, this one is from today.

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#62 5 years ago

Looking awesome!

#64 5 years ago

Yea, looks great!

#65 5 years ago

Thanks guys.

New rule. Wait 48 hours before peeling off tape. Had a few of the thin sections come off with the tape. If I had done each side independently I probably wouldn't have had that problem. A thicker area was still elastic at the edges, had to use the knife on those few edges and cut right along the tape.

Also, some days I think things are going well, others I think I should have just cleared it to a finish (and not just to keep the paint from flaking off) and put it back together. The colors are certainly going to be more vibrant when I'm done, but I'd honestly just pay for a new PF at this point. I don't have the patience to make this fun for the whole process, but I'm going to finish it because I don't like to give up.

Fighting with my airbrush doesn't help either. Was a little too watery last night, was just barely too thick tonight to get it to cooperate from the get go. Ugh.

#66 5 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

Also, some days I think things are going well, others I think I should have just cleared it to a finish (and not just to keep the paint from flaking off) and put it back together. The colors are certainly going to be more vibrant when I'm done, but I'd honestly just pay for a new PF at this point. I don't have the patience to make this fun for the whole process, but I'm going to finish it because I don't like to give up.

This is my exact attitude toward my '47 United project. I am more interested in other aspects of the game other than the PF. Yet I am stuck rebuilding the nasty rotted out thing. Progress is too slow for my liking and not fun anymore. I want the PF to be done *NOW* yet it has to be best I can do before sealing it up.
Sometimes I wish I would have just cleaned it best I could and sealed it up. But then I think "Ewwww"! Knowing myself, I must keep going on track with my project otherwise it will sit disassembled for an indefinite long period of time.
I have a 50's pachinko machine stored in 5 gallon buckets for over 2 years now for that reason......

#67 5 years ago

I have had this machine for ~2 years now. In my defense, I was in school until last May, so time to work on it was nil. Then, I got as far as I reasonably could with a toothpick (like I read somewhere on this forum) and had to go with airbrushing for really thin lines. Now I'm finishing the thin areas and some of the larger areas that I hadn't done.

There is comfort in knowing that each time I go out to do a spray - is it a layer, a coat, a what? It's been the same color for 5 sprays and counting because it's a different area each time - that I will be that much closer the next time I take the tape off. It's still really hard some times.

At least I have played the machine and know that it's pretty fun. The guy I bought it from lives about 3 miles from my house and he sold it because he was renovating and needed the room. I bet he's done with the reno now, and I'm not nearly there.

Once the blue wall with the white mortar is done I will feel much better. I've been dreading that area since I first decided to paint. It's not hard at all, just so many lines that you have to break down into seperate sprays when you are doing this with tape.

I still have no idea how I'm going to do the million little 'M' shapes that the people have in their clothes.

1 week later
#68 5 years ago

Another spray. The 2-day+ dry time works much better than trying to do a spray a day and having some edges come up.

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#69 5 years ago

I highly suggest getting airbrush stencils at an art store. I picked a pack up for about $3 which was 3 sheets covering a total of about 2.5 sq foot. I wouldn't stick tape to the PF. They're translucent so you can draw your pattern on the stencil, cut with an exacto knife, tape overspray mask to the stencil and spray away.
No waiting, spray and you're done. I took the time to cut a bunch of stencils in one bunch (while watching TV) and sprayed them all wthin an hour or so. Quick and painless.

I was even able to cut out tiny letter stencils using a magnifying glass for my United Singapore rebuild.

#70 5 years ago
Quoted from SteveFury:

I was even able to cut out tiny letter stencils using a magnifying glass for my United Singapore rebuild.

Now that's one Steady hand!

#71 5 years ago
Quoted from SteveFury:

I highly suggest getting airbrush stencils at an art store. I picked a pack up for about $3 which was 3 sheets covering a total of about 2.5 sq foot. I wouldn't stick tape to the PF. They're translucent so you can draw your pattern on the stencil, cut with an exacto knife, tape overspray mask to the stencil and spray away.No waiting, spray and you're done. I took the time to cut a bunch of stencils in one bunch (while watching TV) and sprayed them all wthin an hour or so. Quick and painless.
I was even able to cut out tiny letter stencils using a magnifying glass for my United Singapore rebuild.

Good info Steve, thanks. I did a coat on the PF prior to anything, so the paint is protected and isn't coming off with the tape. For larger areas, and even pinstripes, this is working. It is slow, but is now within my comfort level. However, for the lettering in some areas, I just might need those stencils. Time to go on the hunt for them.

My local offerings are either Hobby Lobby or Michael's, and Michael's web site if very poor. Are they literally called 'airbrush stencils'?

#72 5 years ago

I went into Michaels and asked for airbrush stencils. They were near the paint section around some other pre-cut letter stencils. Translucent blue sheets, a pack of 3 probably 8x11" big.

#73 5 years ago

Another shot. I fit in a lot of thin sections today which was a first. I have been able to do some vertical lines in the wall too, first time for that.

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#74 5 years ago

I just caught back up on your playfield restore thread. I started watching at the very beginning. What a great satisfaction you will have once you are completed with the project!!

I admire your hard work and persistence.

Dane

#75 5 years ago

There is a joust in our local thrift store. 200 bucks. About in the same condition as your before pic.

#76 5 years ago

The playfield, or the cab too? My cab is flaking really bad. Would have made for a really nice rat rod type of project, it was that bad. Oh well, just looking forward to playing it again.

#77 5 years ago

Keep posting these photos. I'm waiting for the funnies!
No seriously, nice work. You're going where I haven't trod before!

#78 5 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Keep posting these photos. I'm waiting for the funnies!
No seriously, nice work. You're going where I haven't trod before!

Same for me. Keep going.

#79 5 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

Same for me. Keep going.

+1

#80 5 years ago

rock on !

#81 5 years ago

Resprayed the set up seen in the most recent pic. I was getting really bad spitting, and very frustrated, so I did some research on my exact paint brand. I found a forum that had used various thinners and somebody said a 50/50 mixture of paint and rubbing alcohol worked really well.

I tried that out with a little practice. It did in fact spray nicely and because it was alcohol, dried pretty fast. It takes a few coats since it's a little on the runny side, but it went down nicely and there was nos spitting or bubbles. I have lots of medicine cups from what we have collected with my two boys over the last few years. I took one of those to do my measurements, so I'm expecting the same behavior every single time I spray. Much better than the hit or miss spitting and long dry times I was getting in the past.

1 week later
#82 5 years ago

Well the magic 50:50 mix didn't work so well. I pulled tape off today and most of the areas completely lifted with the tape. Very mad. I'm going to try it again with a 2 paint to alcohol and if that doesn't work, giving up and going back to water.

#83 5 years ago

At least you are not giving up. I have been following from the beginning and can't wait to see the finished game. I have almost given up on a few myself and have a couple I really need to get back to.

#84 5 years ago

I think these may be of enormous help because your tape will never touch your work:
http://shop.hobbylobby.com/products/8-x-10-stencil-blanks-147215/
I see they have some larger sheets too. Pretty cheap.

Based on reviews of this product, some say they are difficult to cut. The ones I got at Michaels were great. A new exacto knife blade easily sunk all the way through on one pass.

#85 5 years ago

Peeled the test of the tape off today. The lifting wasn't as bad as I was expecting. Still there, but not 50% of the areas, like I was worried about. Tried a 2 paint to alc, and that shot just like the 1, so I will do that from now on. Here is the recent pic.

image.jpg
#86 5 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

Peeled the test of the tape off today. The lifting wasn't as bad as I was expecting. Still there, but not 50% of the areas, like I was worried about. Tried a 2 paint to alc, and that shot just like the 1, so I will do that from now on. Here is the recent pic.

image.jpg 205 KB

You remembered! Thanks for the "funnies"!

#87 5 years ago

I finished the Sudoku but I cant make out the Jumble to solve it

--Jeff

#88 5 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

You remembered! Thanks for the "funnies"!

I did indeed. Figured I gotta deliver on something. Here is the full area btw:

image.jpg
#89 5 years ago

some PF's can be really tough with the lifting..good luck man...

keep up the good work...

It's all worth it in the end...

#90 5 years ago

I can see you're attacking this with dogged determination. Sometimes that's all you need! Great work so far.

2 weeks later
#91 5 years ago

Hockey playoffs have severely affected my project time. Almost done with the whites in the center where the giant wall is. That will be nice. In fact, almost done with the white completely.

image.jpg
#92 5 years ago

Did another spray. Forgot to take a picture and now I'm ready to crash. There want as much to paint tonight because the wall is almost done. The spacing of the lines just doesn't allow me to tape it all up and do it in one pass. Going to do the lettering soon, so it's time to hunt down that stencil stuff. Not really looking forward to that part, but I said that about the wall too.

1 week later
#93 5 years ago

I did something tonight and I think it will make some people mad. I painted a section on the cab without sanding all the old paint off. I wanted to see how it came out. It came out pretty much as expected. Looks just like it did as far as details, just a different color.

Feels a little like a rat rod where it will be proper(ish) and finished under the hood but the body will be a little ugly. I don't think I want to take the paint down, just keep trucking and play the game within the year, instead of in a decade.

image.jpg
#94 5 years ago

There's nothing wrong with that. I've done games where making it presentable is plenty good enough compared to what I started with. Others are more worthy of a total redo. It's a judgement call, and you'll still be proud of the results once you have that game ready to go. Really looking forward to seeing the finished product.

8 months later
#95 4 years ago

I've come to realize that I should have just cleaned and cleared the old pain on the PF. The detail areas are going terribly. I'm going to scan the PF and do an overlay like this (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-ruins-of-camelot) , since I can fix everything on the computer. At least I don't suck at that.

The cab however is going really well. One side is almost done, the head is coming along nicely, and that should be done in a few weeks.

2 months later
#96 4 years ago

So after a lot of searching, I found a place in town that was able to give me a 1 scan of the playfield. I took it into them late last week and got it back mid this week. I was able to start on the 'redraw' today in AotoCAD. Gotta say that I'm pretty stoked with how it's going. I'll see how far I get tonight and maybe post up a progress pic. I'm not great with color matching, so I'll have my wife help me out later with that.

I have a question for anyone with text experience. Can anyone give some suggestions for the font to use? I went through the list and there are some things that would be acceptable, there was always one thing that was off. The numbers are the hard part. In the top there is a yellow area that says "1,000" and that is what I'm using as my reference. Some fonts are bold, but do the comma wrong, others put the base at the bottom of the 1. AutoCAD is actually pretty good at importing texts, so if anyone can give me a few leads, I'll probably be able to pull it in for a final test. Thanks.

2 months later
#98 4 years ago

About 6 hours into this. I'm not blazing through it, but I'm liking the progress that is happening. I have one concern about what to do in the third picture. There are black stripes over bare wood and this will never work on white vinyl. I don't have a wood grain texture in autocad, but wouldn't be opposed to filling in the blank area with a solid color. One restoration of a surf game that I saw ended up with an octopus painted in a previously bare wood area.

Oh yes, I know the colors don't match. I'll finish matching them as best I can later. Everything that is gray will be changed to black when done. It's easier to see how on target I am when putting down lines if they are contrasting colors.

The purple dots are going to be cut out when the printer prints this for me. They have to set this up and asked for a single color that they an use to make sure they get them all.

JOUST_PROGRESS_PICTURE1.jpg

JOUST_PROGRESS_NO_PICTURE1.jpg

JOUST_PROGRESS_BARE_WOOD1.jpg

2 weeks later
#99 4 years ago

Quite a bit more done recently. The horse and knight are really all I have left to do. The obnoxious green background is just to show how much area is left. It's really not all that much, but the details in the horse and knight will take about 2 hours. The picture quality is junk, but that is because I did a quick crop in MS Paint. The raw data is very high quality.JOUST PROGRESS PICTURE2.JPG

#100 4 years ago

Looks really good- and I have experience doing similar things- so congrats on the progress its not trivial

- one potential solution for the wood grain regions - and this could be a nightmare with registration issues- but you could conceivably cut out the wood sections after you have placed the overlay. That would leave the black lines and wood grain (and fixing the black lines is easy). Of course you would need to fill with clear to level but if you could get registration nearly perfect that part is easy.

Otherwise- I vote do something cool with those problem areas and add to the game - you might as well have fun with it and make it yours.

Just for posterity and if you ever return to stencil and air brush- I find that the worst possible solution to the lifting problem is to let it dry- The best way I have found is to spray quickly and ensure full even color saturation (but ONLY just- you do NOT want a heavy coat) and then IMMEDIATELY pull the stencil- so long as your paint is not pooling or so wet as to flow, this will release the stencil very cleanly- if its at all dry the issues you were experiencing are almost guaranteed and they are compounded with a heavy coat of paint. One further tidbit- spray your stencil edges with a transparent base coat first- then color. This prevents bleed- and trust me, if you do both these things your joy level on the project will go way up- I struggled through the same stuff when I was learning this and almost no one ever includes this level of detail in the description of how to do this. I figured it out through trial/error and lots of web searches for airbrush techniques and stencil use. The real trick is to get a spray pattern that can be adjusted to fill the stencil area quickly- if its taking you 10 minutes to spray and fill a stencil do the edges LAST- You can also hit the edges with a very light very fast coat to wet them slightly before you peel it up, but it will not help if the paint is really dry- just if its still curing and the liquid can penetrate and wet the coat through.

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