(Topic ID: 290382)

Bally Hokus Pokus not counting bonus

By Twerre

3 years ago


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  • 12 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Twerre
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 years ago

Hello,
I'm very new to the pin ball world and I'm completely getting sucked into it. Lol. I picked up a Bally Hokus Pokus a few months ago and my father in law and I have been messing with it. We've gotten some gremlins worked out, but now when starting a game the ball kicker will constantly keep activating. The only way we can get it to stop is to add a bonus to the machine then it will stop. Then once it drains in the outhole the same problem occurs. There was 2 yellow wires where the solder broke on the bonus unit and I was hoping that was it. However we soldered them back on and still nothing. We've cleaned up the switches but still nothing. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks again, and like I've said I'm very new to all of this, so please excuse me in advance if I ask any dumb questions. Lol. Attached is a few pictures of the wires we soldered back on.

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#2 3 years ago

The bonus unit counts down to zero when the ball drains. When the bonus unit reaches zero, a switch on the bonus unit closes to energize the outhole relay. That causes the kicker to kick the ball out.

The bonus unit is supposed to step up to 1000 points when the ball is kicked out to the shooter. Since your bonus unit isn't stepping up (that is, the bonus unit is stuck at zero) the outhole relay stays energized and the kicker just keeps on kicking. That's why the problem stops when you manually step up the bonus. You are doing by hand what the machine is supposed to be doing automatically.

Does your bonus unit step up (that is, add bonus) during game play when you hit a 500 point & bonus advance target? If so, then the problem is likely a dirty/mis-adjusted switch on the outhole relay, or a broken wire at the solder lugs of this switch. This is a normally open switch that needs to close and make good contact when the outhole relay is energized. It is the switch with a blue-red wire and a grey-white wire.

If the 500 point & bonus advance targets do not add bonus during game play, then it is likely to be a dirty/mis-adjusted switch on the score motor. According to the schematic, the switch you need to check is on cam 6 and is the second switch up from the cam rider. This is a make-break switch.

If the switches and the associated wiring mentioned above all look OK, and you never get an add bonus (even during game play), then you might have a wiring problem at the add bonus solenoid of the bonus unit, or an add bonus solenoid coil that is not working.

- TimMe

#3 3 years ago

Sounds good. I'll try and take a peek at this tonight. Thanks for the insight I really appreciate it!!! I'll let you know what I come up with.

#4 3 years ago

Hi Twerre
Welcome to PinSide and the joys of an EM!

HP is one of my favorites. I am not a reliable diagnostician by any means but can offer photos/vid if a comparison ever would assist.
The folk who chime in here have aided me immensely.

Pinsider MarkG periodically does an online problem solving workshop which TimMe and other talented folk participate in -- wicked helpful and a blast to just be a lurker : https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/an-em-pinball-online-repair-clinic

So for your second game: a speedy Williams or drop-target Gottlieb?

Cheers

Tom

#5 3 years ago

I did pick up a fireball classic solid state machine just to get me through. Lol. That just needs a good cleaning and its fully functional. The sound wasn't working when I picked it up, but I just messed with the sound pot back and forth in the head unit and flipped the power on and bam got sound now. Lol. So that was nice. I would love to pick up a gottlieb jet spin those look like fun machines. My father in law has 3 gottlieb ems. Domino, Out of sight and we just picked up a quick draw this weekend. He's the one that got me hooked. He's definitely an EM guy. So we have been trying to work through the hokus pokus together.

#6 3 years ago

I got home, and checked the make-break switch on cam 6 like you stated. I felt like I had the switches cleaned fairly good, but clean it some more. Then it looked like it wasnt breaking when the cam came around. So I adjusted that some. When I turned on the machine I was absolutely blown away, it worked. Lol. Now it seems as if the score doesn't add up correctly once the ball drains. Sometimes it seems to add to many then the next it's to little, but sometimes it's right on. I have some other stuff I gotta do with the family tonight so I won't have time to look into it anymore tonight, but thank you so much for taking the time to help me out to begin with I appreciate it so much!!!!! I hope some day I can make heads or tails of the schematics. lol.

#7 3 years ago

Glad you got that fixed!

On Bally machines of this era, the bonus issue you are having is sometimes due to a mechanical issue with the bonus unit. This is a pretty easy thing to check. You can test if your stepper is mechanically working OK by stepping it up several steps by hand, and then stepping it back down. To do the stepping, you just push each plunger into its solenoid with your finger, and then release it fairly quickly to see if the gear moves exactly one tooth in the appropriate direction each time. If the stepper mechanism is OK, you'll get good smooth operation in both directions at all times.

If the stepper isn't moving smoothly, it could be something fairly simple - the mechanism may just need cleaning and some minor lubrication. But, if the stepper still doesn't work after you clean and lubricate it, you may have a more serious mechanical issue that is somewhat common with this type of Bally stepper unit.

The bonus unit stepper uses an escapement mechanism to do the downward stepping. Each time the subtract solenoid pulls in the subtract plunger, there is a ratchet that engages a tooth on the plastic gear, at the same time that it releases the main drive pawl from the gear wheel. That is supposed to allow the plastic gear wheel to move toward the zero position about one-half tooth, driven by the tension of the torsion spring trying to unwind on the gear shaft. The torsion spring is under tension from being previously wound up when the stepper was going up (adding bonus).

When the subtract coil shuts off and the subtract plunger returns to its at-rest state, the escapement ratchet is supposed to dis-engage from the gear tooth at the same time that the main pawl re-engages the gear, at the next tooth down. The net effect of this is that the gear should step down exactly one tooth each time the subtract plunger makes one complete operation in and out of the solenoid.

If the action of this escapement gets messed up, then the stepper may not step down each time the subtract plunger operates, or it may skip more than one tooth per subtract plunger operation. This will cause either a bonus over-count or under-count.

Other than cleaning and lubrication, the two main ways this escapement action can get messed up mechanically is due to either the ratchet and pawl parts getting worn, or due to one of the black pivot posts that stick up from the metal base plate coming loose on the baseplate. Both of these issues can be fixed, but are usually non-trivial to deal with.

In any event, it's a good idea to confirm that the mechanical operation of your bonus stepper unit is working properly before you look for an electrical circuit problem with the bonus count.

- TimMe

#8 3 years ago

I just got done checking the bonus unit and it seems that it is doing what it's supposed to be with out skipping any cogs in either direction. I'll try and do some more digging into it.

#9 3 years ago

That's good news, as it is kind of a PITA to fix those Bally stepper mechanical problems.

If the stepper mech is in good shape, your bonus count is probably out of whack due to a fault somewhere in the switching logic. The root cause of those types of issues can be more difficult to find, but they are almost always much easier to fix than a broken stepper, if that helps at all.

- TimMe

#10 3 years ago

After doing some more digging, I've tried to figure out if there is any rhyme or reason on the bonus counter. And it seems like it comes up with different numbers on the same bonus. Nothing is consistent. Also when I hit the pop bumpers instead of adding 10 points it adds 510 and advances the bonus. This one kind of has me stumped. I figured maybe there would be some consistency with the bonus being off.

#11 3 years ago

For the bumper issue, it sounds like one or more of your "500 points and add bonus" playfield switches is gapped too close. The vibration from the pop bumper is causing a too-closely gapped switch to make contact, and that is giving you the extra score.

- TimMe

#12 3 years ago

Sure thing. You were exactly right. Got that one fixed up. Lol, I just gotta try and track down the bonus problems now and some grounding on the lights and I should be in good shape.

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