(Topic ID: 295938)

Bally Hokus Pokus - Free games not awarded.

By blibb

2 years ago


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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by blibb
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Hokus_Pocus_Manual.pdf (PDF preview)
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#1 2 years ago

Hi Pinside!

I have a Bally Hokus Pokus that works great, except it doesn't register free games. When specials are scored on the playfield no credit is awarded. When the game matches no credit is awarded. When the game goes over the top no credit is awarded. Not sure if a credit is supposed to be awarded for going over the top, but a free game on points should probably have been reached by then. The coin mechs seemed jammed so I can't really see if a credit can be awarded from a coin.

I've only done a preliminary examination of the areas involved. The credit wheel seems to have had two wires cut, but have now been re-attached. Bare wires braided and still exposed. There are also a couple of wires cut on the coin mech, and both seemed to be jammed. The game is hacked to free play, so starting and playing a game works fine. All scoring works, except when special is lit, only the left side lights up, and doesn't score points or a credit when activated. The right side SPECIAL doesn't ever seem to light up. Doesn't seem to be a bulb issue.

I did notice the credit knocker in the backbox was pretty rusty. I'm wondering if maybe it had an issue and was disconnected.

Don't really know where to begin or what I should be looking for. Any help or direction would be great.

Thanks

Evan

#2 2 years ago

The credit unit step up coil increments the replay count.
This coil has to be connected obviously. There are also adjustment plugs in the backbox that controls whether a ball or game is awarded and what the high score threshold is to award games, so you need to check that. There’s a switch on the replay unit that opens when the credits max out. If that is open when it shouldn’t be, that could explain it.

The easiest thing to test is the coin slot. You should be able to move the switch carefully. You can remove the coin mech to make t easier. Make sure the Jones plug on the relay board is set for multiple games per coin, otherwise it will only start a new game.

If that works but winning a game doesn’t, that helps narrow it down. Then you’ve got to work through the schematic to figure out what switch isn’t closing to energize the step up coil. If you get to that point, I can post marked up schematic pages.

Good luck,
Dave

#3 2 years ago
Quoted from dgAmpGuy:

The credit unit step up coil increments the replay count.
This coil has to be connected obviously. There are also adjustment plugs in the backbox that controls whether a ball or game is awarded and what the high score threshold is to award games, so you need to check that. There’s a switch on the replay unit that opens when the credits max out. If that is open when it shouldn’t be, that could explain it.
The easiest thing to test is the coin slot. You should be able to move the switch carefully. You can remove the coin mech to make t easier. Make sure the Jones plug on the relay board is set for multiple games per coin, otherwise it will only start a new game.
If that works but winning a game doesn’t, that helps narrow it down. Then you’ve got to work through the schematic to figure out what switch isn’t closing to energize the step up coil. If you get to that point, I can post marked up schematic pages.
Good luck,
Dave

Thank you, Dave.

I'm going to do my best to digest this.

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from blibb:

Thank you, Dave.
I'm going to do my best to digest this.

Is the credit unit step up unit the coil that fires on the credit stepper? I think the wiring looked okay there. I'm going to double check, though.

I think it's set for credit, not extra ball, but I might be thinking of another one of my games I'm working on atm. I'll check that and clean the jones plug.

As for high score. I think there are a bunch jones plugs plugged into the wood. Probably meant to set high score thresholds. There is one plug in use.

I will try to manually fire a credit with the wire latch. There are a couple of wires cut there, so I'll grab their colors and report back.

Thanks for your interest

Evan

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from blibb:

The right side SPECIAL doesn't ever seem to light

Having the adjustment plug set to extra ball will prevent the left and right special from lighting.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Having the adjustment plug set to extra ball will prevent the left and right special from lighting.
[quoted image]

The left side only lights. Doesn't notch a credit or score, but does light.

#7 2 years ago

According to the flyer the specials alternate with every 10 points scored. The 00-90 unit should be manually operated to see the specials alternate. Watch if unit advances when 10 point relay is manually pushed.

#8 2 years ago

don't have the hokus pokus schem at the moment, but typically the credit unit has an upper limit switch that opens to prevent more credits from being added.

a jumper wire goes from the limit switch to the step-up coil, and the other blade of the limit switch is a B-W wire.

make sure the limit switch is closed.

a sanity check is jumper wire 30 briefly to the B-W wire (usually easiest to get to, especially on the match enable or credit vs. extra ball adjust plugs) and verify the credit unit steps up.

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballdaveh:

According to the flyer the specials alternate with every 10 points scored. The 00-90 unit should be manually operated to see the specials alternate. Watch if unit advances when 10 point relay is manually pushed.

Thank you @pinballdaveh!

New problem. The 0-9 was rusty and frozen. I manually unstuck it, but it doesn't look like the coil is firing. Going to unscrew it and try to restore it a bit. I'll let you know for sure if it's dead after I clean it up.

Neither of the coin mechs produce credits when activated. They seem dead atm. I'm going to take some pictures of the areas where wires are cut later tonight.

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

don't have the hokus pokus schem at the moment, but typically the credit unit has an upper limit switch that opens to prevent more credits from being added.
a jumper wire goes from the limit switch to the step-up coil, and the other blade of the limit switch is a B-W wire.
make sure the limit switch is closed.
a sanity check is jumper wire 30 briefly to the B-W wire (usually easiest to get to, especially on the match enable or credit vs. extra ball adjust plugs) and verify the credit unit steps up.

Thank you @baldtwit!

I'll check that switch when I go take some pictures later tonight.
That would be great, if that was it.

As mentioned above, I've also got a dead and rusty 0-9 unit that I have to rehab.

#11 2 years ago

Well it's worse than I thought. The credit stepper is also in terrible shape. It'll be a bit while I rehab those two steppers, and we'll see what happens when they're cleaned up and moving again. Thanks everyone. Please stand by.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

don't have the hokus pokus schem at the moment, but typically the credit unit has an upper limit switch that opens to prevent more credits from being added.
a jumper wire goes from the limit switch to the step-up coil, and the other blade of the limit switch is a B-W wire.
make sure the limit switch is closed.
a sanity check is jumper wire 30 briefly to the B-W wire (usually easiest to get to, especially on the match enable or credit vs. extra ball adjust plugs) and verify the credit unit steps up.

Hi @baldtwit,

The credit stepper is in bad shape. The switches look pretty bent and some are clearly not working as intended. I'm going to work on it today, and I'll let you know. Thanks as always.

#13 2 years ago

Hi baldtwit

I've been trying to get the credit reel stepper unstuck. Having a bit of trouble since the switch stack that blocks access to the cog is a nut/bolt take it apart deal. Not sure I have the competence to do that safely yet. I have managed to work the spindle out a bit and get a bit of oil in there. I also loosened the tension of the spindle spring by one turn as it seemed to be overwound and it seems to be working. Wouldn't call it 100% yet. 90s but not perfect yet. I did mess around with the switches. I currently have them all closed and it doesn't seem to make any difference. I assume the one that stops more credits from firing is the top switch, as it would be the one to be hit when the credit reel came around. It's currently closed and cleaned. The center switch seems to be the credits in the machine switch and it has to be closed to start a game. Not sure what the final switch does. I have it closed atm too.

#14 2 years ago

Just putting this here for my reference.

Hokus_Pocus_Manual.pdfHokus_Pocus_Manual.pdf
#15 2 years ago

The step-up and step-down is a balance between the tension on the main spring and the helper springs that work the levers. Too little tension and it will step up easily and won’t step down right. Too much tension and it won’t step up. You can move the hole that the spring is set into to adjust by less than a full turn. The usual baseline is 3 turns. I’ve found lots of helpful videos of steppers on YouTube when I did my first couple. Now it’s like riding a bike. If it’s really bummed up, you need to pull it all apart and clean it. Sometimes you can get away with flushing out the gunk with alcohol or lacquer thinner or kerosene, but that is not a long term solution. Do not use wd40 and don’t just lubricate dirt.

Dave

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from dgAmpGuy:

The step-up and step-down is a balance between the tension on the main spring and the helper springs that work the levers. Too little tension and it will step up easily and won’t step down right. Too much tension and it won’t step up. You can move the hole that the spring is set into to adjust by less than a full turn. The usual baseline is 3 turns. I’ve found lots of helpful videos of steppers on YouTube when I did my first couple. Now it’s like riding a bike. If it’s really bummed up, you need to pull it all apart and clean it. Sometimes you can get away with flushing out the gunk with alcohol or lacquer thinner or kerosene, but that is not a long term solution. Do not use wd40 and don’t just lubricate dirt.
Dave

Great advice, Dave. I've brought a couple of steppers back to life, but this is my first try with a Bally. I think it's working pretty good. Doesn't seem to be firing at all, but at least I can manually step it up and down now. I'm going to try my luck with the 0-9 stepper next. That one has some rust on it, which I'll have to clean up first.

#17 2 years ago

Yay! Thank you everyone! After getting the two steppers unstuck, my Hokus Pokus just gave me my first free game by match! Not sure if I can mark this as solved yet, as there are still specials and high scores that might need help, but at least the match free game has worked for the first time!

Thank you so much dgAmpGuy , baldtwit , @pinballdaveh, and @howardr.

EDIT: Both kinds of specials are working on the table now. Think the 0-9 solenoid might be dead. It doesn't seem to be firing atm. Still working on it.

#18 2 years ago
Quoted from blibb:

the 0-9 solenoid might be dead

There are other matching CD-29-1600 coils you can swap in to test

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#19 2 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

There are other matching CD-29-1600 coils you can swap in to test
[quoted image]

Nice. Good thinking, @HowardR! Thx.

#20 2 years ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

don't have the hokus pokus schem at the moment, but typically the credit unit has an upper limit switch that opens to prevent more credits from being added.
a jumper wire goes from the limit switch to the step-up coil, and the other blade of the limit switch is a B-W wire.
make sure the limit switch is closed.
a sanity check is jumper wire 30 briefly to the B-W wire (usually easiest to get to, especially on the match enable or credit vs. extra ball adjust plugs) and verify the credit unit steps up.

Hi baldtwit ,

Everything seems to be working on the Hokus Pokus now except the match unit isn't firing. Is there a nearby hack I can jumper to find out if it's dead? Don't want to swap it out, if it's not the problem.

Thx

Evan

#21 2 years ago

Hi there,

So the coil is busted. Only one of the copper wires is connected to the coil and I can even see the busted wire pushed back and to the side, but not really reachable. So, I could probably fix that except I can't get the coil bracket unscrewed on one side. The screw seems to be rusted in place, and I'm afraid if I put much more pressure on it, I'll end up stripping it. I don't own a blow torch. Has anybody got a really good way to unstick a rusted/stuck screw, that doesn't involve a blow torch or heavy tools.

Thanx

Evan

#22 2 years ago

grab the screw head with vice grips or heat the screw with a soldering iron?

dunno which screw is it, but if all the other screws are out, can you spin the entire bracket to break the thing loose?

at some point ya don't worry about it ... strip it, break/cut off the screw head, whatever it takes. Usually there's enough of a screw piece poking out either side of the hole to grab with vice grips so you don't need to drill/tap the hole or buy another bracket.
got a picture?

when the coil wire is broken off short of reaching a solder lug, you have a 50-50 chance it's the wire on the outside of the coil. If it is, you unwrap a turn of wire, sand off the varnish and solder the wire back to the lug.

if it's the wire end that goes to the inside of the coil, you're generally pooched and it's time for another coil unless you can remove the wire stub varnish so it takes solder and use a wire jumper to get you to the lug.

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

grab the screw head with vice grips or heat the screw with a soldering iron?
dunno which screw is it, but if all the other screws are out, can you spin the entire bracket to break the thing loose?
at some point ya don't worry about it ... strip it, break/cut off the screw head, whatever it takes. Usually there's enough of a screw piece poking out either side of the hole to grab with vice grips so you don't need to drill/tap the hole or buy another bracket.
got a picture?
when the coil wire is broken off short of reaching a solder lug, you have a 50-50 chance it's the wire on the outside of the coil. If it is, you unwrap a turn of wire, sand off the varnish and solder the wire back to the lug.
if it's the wire end that goes to the inside of the coil, you're generally pooched and it's time for another coil unless you can remove the wire stub varnish so it takes solder and use a wire jumper to get you to the lug.

Got the screw loose with an elastic band, 3 in 1 oil, and yes moving the bracket was probably the biggest help. The coil ended up being fixable. Back together. Working like a charm!

Everything seems to work on Hokus Pokus now, except the coin mechs and I don't care about them atm. Thank you so much for your help!

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