(Topic ID: 285682)

Bally Future Spa Issues

By BenB

3 years ago


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  • 23 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by BenB
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 3 years ago

I am currently working on a future spa for a friend that is in quite poor shape. The objective is to get it playing good then decide how far cosmetically to go.

Power supply has been rebuilt with new bridges, connectors, and fuse clips. Getting good voltages on all the test points.

SDB has new capacitors and recommended upgrades per pinwiki.

MPU is a new weebly board as the old one was toast from severe alkaline damage. Previous MPU had locked on Led even after attempting to clean and replace corrosion zone parts. The new MPU looks great and has gotten me closer to getting this running, but not quite there yet.

After replacing the MPU with the weebly, I get 6 flashes on the MPU. When the 7th flash is to light I get the left kick back and saucer coils to energize. Following that the led locks on dimly. MPU has good 22vdc. Curious of the next thing to try? I have replaced every .156 and .100 connector in the back box.

#2 3 years ago

So what is not working?, It sounds like the game is coming up. When a Bally game comes up it kicks out all the ball locations like the saucer and kicker in case a ball is stuck there. That's part of the boot. Afterwards the LED on the MPU flashes dimly which sounds like your B&I (that's the official name of the Weebly board) is doing. Are the displays lit up? Can you press the self-test button on the front door and put the game in test mode?

#3 3 years ago

-The displays don’t come on
-Won’t go into attract mode
-Cant start a game

I can get the it to go into test and then the displays come on.

#4 3 years ago

Disconnect J1, J2 and J3 on CPU board (only J4 connected) and see how many flashes you get. If you get seven, reconnect connectors one at a time to see what's causing the holdup.

Congrats on all the connector rebuilding. That's a lot of pins. I hope you drank several beers afterward.

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Disconnect J1, J2 and J3 on CPU board (only J4 connected) and see how many flashes you get. If you get seven, reconnect connectors one at a time to see what's causing the holdup.
Congrats on all the connector rebuilding. That's a lot of pins. I hope you drank several beers afterward.

With just J4 connected I get the same 6 flashes with dim locked on led and the saucer and kickback firing. I also get some sound but no displays or attract mode.

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from BenB:

With just J4 connected I get the same 6 flashes with dim locked on led and the saucer and kickback firing. I also get some sound but no displays or attract mode.

If the MPU diag LED goes to half brightness and stays that way you have passed all seven of the MPU's power up tests. When the MPU diag LED blinks there is a delay between test flash one and test two. When you first power on the MPU the LED turns on briefly and then goes out. At that point is when you start counting flashes. After flash 7 the LED will remain dimly lit at all times for all bally/stern games except for a few exceptions like Flight 2k (not future spa).

I think it raises the drops and kicks out holes at power on so it sounds like you are actually in attraction mode but the lamps are out and the displays are out.

Start at the transformer/rectifier board. The 3/4a fuse is for the displays. Then 10a fuse is for the feature lamps. Check those fuses and see if the connectors look like they are burned up. With a DMM you can very carefully measure for the high voltage (and lamp voltages) starting at the rectifier board.

#7 3 years ago

Thanks for the response now I at least know I am booting just not going into attract mode. I was checking voltages again at the rectifier board and noticed F5 general illumination was blown. It appears as though I have a short. I replaced the fuse and it blows instantly. If I remove the 20 pin J3 plug the fuse holds. Fuse will blow with J3 on the board. I pulled GI buss pins 10 and 11 (orange and red) and tried applying power with just one or the other installed. Both caused fuse to blow. Any advice on the best way to narrow down a GI short. Could it be on the rectifier board itself?

#8 3 years ago

Is this a multiball game? Or better question, does the B&I board think it's a multiball game? Bally games with more than one pinball will boot and not come on line if a ball is missing. So first thing I would do is check the MPU and make sure it's set for Future Spa.

Once you confirm the B&I board is set properly for FS put the game in switch test and make sure there are no stuck switches and make sure all the ball rest spots like the outhole are registering when a ball is there.

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

Is this a multiball game? Or better question, does the B&I board think it's a multiball game? Bally games with more than one pinball will boot and not come on line if a ball is missing. So first thing I would do is check the MPU and make sure it's set for Future Spa.
Once you confirm the B&I board is set properly for FS put the game in switch test and make sure there are no stuck switches and make sure all the ball rest spots like the outhole are registering when a ball is there.

Future spa is a single ball game. MPU is set correctly per weebly dip MPU setting sheet. In switch test I get a single 0 on the credit display indicating no closed switches. I will try and check tonight the switches activate when ball is present.

#10 3 years ago

good visual inspection of the backbox light board. They are usually two strings of bare wires going around to each lamp stapled to the wooden board. Look for any problems like crossed over wires or evidence someone in the past messing around with wiring. Its possible for the little spring thing in a center of lamp socket to break, fold over and touch the barrel creating a short. Possible a bad lamp could be shorted. I would pull all the lamps out. If you having trouble finding the short and getting desperate, break the GI into sections to narrow down where the short actually is. Someone could have wired up the J3 rect plug wrong too. Very common to see the GI wires hacked around burnt connectors.

2 weeks later
#11 3 years ago
Quoted from BenB:

Thanks for the response now I at least know I am booting just not going into attract mode. I was checking voltages again at the rectifier board and noticed F5 general illumination was blown. It appears as though I have a short. I replaced the fuse and it blows instantly. If I remove the 20 pin J3 plug the fuse holds. Fuse will blow with J3 on the board. I pulled GI buss pins 10 and 11 (orange and red) and tried applying power with just one or the other installed. Both caused fuse to blow. Any advice on the best way to narrow down a GI short. Could it be on the rectifier board itself?

it's pretty much been said, but you have narrowed it down to the back box which is J3 on the rectifier board.
the general illumination is AC so there isn't anything on the rectifier board to go wrong.
the AC comes from the transformer, one line through the 20A fuse to pins 10 & 11 on J3, that you already know, and the other the return being ground, pins 1 & 2.

with all GI bulbs removed from the backbox, and J3 unplugged from the rec board, check for continuity between 10 & 11, the orange and red wires which should be soldered together to one of the GI braided wires and pins 1 & 2, the white and green wires, also soldered together to the other braided wire.
you don't need to check at the pins, you can just check where you see the orange/red and green/white wires on the backbox door.

if no continuity then great! something to do with a globe itself or possibly when the globe is seated?
with the game on and J3 connected on the rec board start reseating the globes and if the first one causes the fuse to blow it's really lucky you happened to pick maybe the faulty globe or there is an issue further back. Try another globe in a different holder.

if you have continuity, causing the fuse to go open, it is likely to be, the orange/red and green white soldered incorrectly (mixed up), a shorted/damaged globe/globe holder, a soldering hack, an oddity like a screw from the front shorting through the door or something else?
so the task begins of searching for the culprit/s.

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from Rikoshay:

it's pretty much been said, but you have narrowed it down to the back box which is J3 on the rectifier board.
the general illumination is AC so there isn't anything on the rectifier board to go wrong.
the AC comes from the transformer, one line through the 20A fuse to pins 10 & 11 on J3, that you already know, and the other the return being ground, pins 1 & 2.
with all GI bulbs removed from the backbox, and J3 unplugged from the rec board, check for continuity between 10 & 11, the orange and red wires which should be soldered together to one of the GI braided wires and pins 1 & 2, the white and green wires, also soldered together to the other braided wire.
you don't need to check at the pins, you can just check where you see the orange/red and green/white wires on the backbox door.
if no continuity then great! something to do with a globe itself or possibly when the globe is seated?
with the game on and J3 connected on the rec board start reseating the globes and if the first one causes the fuse to blow it's really lucky you happened to pick maybe the faulty globe or there is an issue further back. Try another globe in a different holder.
if you have continuity, causing the fuse to go open, it is likely to be, the orange/red and green white soldered incorrectly (mixed up), a shorted/damaged globe/globe holder, a soldering hack, an oddity like a screw from the front shorting through the door or something else?
so the task begins of searching for the culprit/s.

Thanks for the guidance. I ended up getting the game playable but have had the back box GI hots unsoldered.
- with J3 unplugged from rectifier board, 1&2 have continuity at plug, 10&11 also have continuity. Also checked each wire for continuity from J3 to back box light board.

- checking resistance between 1 to 10&11 and 2 to 10&11 I get OL or open.

- checking the resistance on the back box board I get the same results as above.

- checking from pin 10&11 to the ground I get around 6 meg ohms. Quite a high resistance, but resistance none the less. I’ve checked the wires
From J3 to the back box and am not seeing anything suspect.

2 weeks later
#13 3 years ago

Pulling my hair out trying to figure the short or wiring problem I have. F1 and F5 will blow if I attach the blue wire from pin 6 on J3 of the rectifier board. They don’t blow if I have these blue sw. ill. Buss wires un unsoldered in the back box. Any suggestions on how to narrow down the problem to the back box or to the play field?

#14 3 years ago

as you may already know:

J1 on the rectifier board is for your playfield.

J2 on the rectifier board id for your cabinet.

J3 is for you backbox.

F1 is for your switched lights & F5 is for your general lights

if both fuses are going open it sounds like a short to ground, but unusual for both to go open.

and it sounds like it's happening due to problem in the backbox.

i'd check your switched wires aren't joined to your general wires. you need to find where the 2 'join'. then where the 'short' is.

i had an issue where the GI fuse went open on powering up.....going nuts trying to work it out, no obvious clues, turns out it was a backbox hinge screw that was shorting to a GI globe housing.
see the hinge is touching the ground plane, and a longer than normal screw was put in shorting the ground plane to the GI.

you need to isolate everything and start from the rec board IMO

#15 3 years ago

for F1 20A fuse going open:

with the machine turned OFF and with J1 & J3 unplugged from the rectifier board,

and all switched globes removed from the backbox, do you have continuity from J3 pin 6 (switched illumination bus) to ground?

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from Rikoshay:

for F1 20A fuse going open:
with the machine turned OFF and with J1 & J3 unplugged from the rectifier board,
and all switched globes removed from the backbox, do you have continuity from J3 pin 6 (switched illumination bus) to ground?

Yes with bulbs removed in switched sockets of the back box I have a short to ground.

#17 3 years ago

Wondering if this green wire is factory? This has the switches Ill and gen Ill tied together.

B785A1D9-E940-4221-AC3B-4E3E8166082C (resized).jpegB785A1D9-E940-4221-AC3B-4E3E8166082C (resized).jpeg

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from BenB:

Wondering if this green wire is factory? This has the switches Ill and gen Ill tied together.
[quoted image]

After removing this green wire which was a heavier #14 stranded, the fuses hold and lights work as they should. Not sure why someone would have tied the 2 together?

#19 3 years ago

That green wire is not factory.

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from BenB:

Not sure why someone would have tied the 2 together?

Like they always say, stupid people do stupid things

#21 3 years ago

That green wire shorted the GI bus to the switched bus. No wonder the fuses were blowing.

#22 3 years ago

I'm guessing that at some point the CPU controlled lights behind the 'Future Spa' stopped working, so someone jumpered it to GI so that it was always on. Might've run that way for years until you fixed the original issue the correct way, thereby creating a short.

#23 3 years ago

Thanks for the input guys!

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