(Topic ID: 196814)

Bally Flip-Flop Player Reset Problem

By pheff

6 years ago


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  • 14 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by pheff
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#2 6 years ago

Hi pheff
You are surprised You get the signal "continuity" when You expect "NO continuity". You are at "Why do I do not like to use 'meters' when testing EM-Pins (?)" ---very often there is a connection from testlug-1 all the way to the transformer - THROUGH the windings in the transformer - and a wiring from the transformer to second lug (testlug-2) You use for measuring ...

There are not two ways to energize the Player-Reset-Relay - Your 1) is the only way to energize it --- I call this "Initial-Current flows". The relay actuating does close its switch (the Self-Hold-Switch) - the turning Score-Motor also closes for a long time its SCM-1A --- the "Self-Hold-Current / circuitry is established for a long time --- so the stepping Player-Unit-RESET does take place. Greetings Rolf

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#4 6 years ago

Hi Paul
You are exactly at "where the problem is".
How would YOU implement the stepping on the balls / on the players - sometimes stepping ONLY to next player - sometimes to next player means back to Player-1 AND to next ball. In a 4-Player-game ? In a 3-Player-Game ? 2 Player ? Single-Player ?
The pin must handle once 4-Player-Game - then an 1-Player-Game etc. This is complicated.

Williams and Bally came out with an beautyful solution - they said: Lets put the focus on "Stepping on the ball - lets look first at stepping at the ball". In a 4,3,2 Player-Game: When the pin can step to the next ball: Immediately afterwards we let the pin step RESETTING on the Player-Unit - to FIRST Player - he (first player gets the new (stepped-up) ball.
IF the pin cannot step to next ball: We let the pin step to next player.
This works fine on 4,3,2-Player-Games. The Williams and Bally Techs said: This works also on a SINGLE-Player-Game - the pin tries to RESET the Player-Unit (as the pin HAS STEPPED on the Ball (remember the focus is ... ) ) - well, well, well - the Player-Unit is resetted in a Single-Player-Game - attempting to reset an resetted Unit is a not needed task --- but it does mechanically do no harm - nobody will ever complain as nobody knows ...

Your Player-Reset-Relay must not only be activated by the EOS-Switch on the Ball-Count-Unit. Along "my red line": SELF-Hold is required for almost half of a revolution of the Score-Motor. Greetings Rolf

3 months later
#6 6 years ago

Hi Paul
I read again Your post-1 --- it is written as "question in theory" - it is not written as "description of existing problem", hmm - so
The first question is "DOES the Ball-Count-Unit-STEP-UP-COIL ever fire ?".
We can force connection to get an answer to this question --- toggle-off the pin and unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons - Bally pins have 110VAC and 50VAC). Clip-on an Jumper-Wire at the coil - side wire-75-orange-white is soldered-on. Take the other end of the Jumper-Wire out into the open - NOT TOUCHING METAL. Take another Jumper-Wire and clip-on at wire-30-yellow (either at the switch on Outhole-Relay or at the transformer-lug). Also take the other end out into the open - NOT TOUCHING METAL.
Plug-in, toggle-on, start a game - NOW hold the Jumper-Wires AT THE INSULATION and tip together the bare ends - question: Does the Coil fires ?

You can "hope for luck" - hope You can use an permanent Jumper-Wire and so You maybe can play - ONLY ONE-Player-Game. Toggle-off the pin and unplug the main power cord and establish permanent my "red" or my "orange" Jumper - then plug-in, toggle-on, start a ONE-Player-Game - question: Can You play a ONE-Player-Game ? Greetings Rolf

0Flip-flop-pinside-Work-05 (resized).jpg0Flip-flop-pinside-Work-05 (resized).jpg

#7 6 years ago

Hi Paul
ooops - I read "sentence 6. in Your post-5" - so the Ball-Count-Unit does step - I am confused - please give an detailled description - You start a ONE-Player-game - then - then - then ...
You start a TWO-Player-game - then - then - then ...
You start a THREE-Player-game - then - then - then ...
You start a FOUR-Player-game - then - then - then ... , greetings Rolf

1 year later
#11 5 years ago

Hi Paul
before I dig in into the schematics - some questions, here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=889&picno=40140&zoom=1 I see two coin chutes "Two plays for one coin (quarter), here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=889&picno=65316&zoom=1 I see left to right: "50 Pf equals half a Mark, roughly half a Dollar" - I guess ONE play --- "2 DM (roughly 2 Dollars)" - I guess 5 plays --- "1 DM" - I guess two plays --- how many Coin Chutes does Your pin has ? What text is at the Coin Chutes ?
Look into Your pin - I guess on the bottom, panel in the Cabinet - does Your pin has an "2nd Coin Chute Relay" ? - does Your pin has an "3rd Coin Chute Relay" ?

When You have Credits on the Replay-Counter in the Backbox and You press the "Start-Button" - can You start a One-Player-Game ? ... Two-Player-Game ? ... Three-Player-Game ? ... Four-Player-Game ?

Is Your pin set to "Free Play" ?
Free Play means: We can press the Start-Button when there are no Credits on the Replay-Counter (cheating - cheating) and the pin reacts as if there were Credits means the pin starts for 1, 2, 3, 4 Player. "Free Play" is a very good thing - easy to do - easy to undo when I (You) want to sell the pin.

Do You have problems in the Start-up / Reset-Procedure ?
Greetings Rolf

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