New! Dark mode!

Browsing Pinside at night? Getting tired of all the white? Switch to dark mode using the button in the top right (or CTRL-B)!

(Topic ID: 279594)

Bally firecracker issues


By Egress

4 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 22 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by Egress
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

One image has been uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

0Firecracker-Work-02 (resized).jpg

#1 4 days ago

Hi all, I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to pinball repair. I own a bally firecracker and it's been having some issues. the main issue is that it sometimes will not count balls properly, but in addition to this the "alternating relay" doesnt seem to work, and neither does the free game target. if any of you have experience repairing this game, i would love the guidance. I do have the full schematic, and other documentation as well.

#2 4 days ago

Hi egress , Welcome to pinside!!

Quoted from Egress:

"alternating relay" doesnt seem to work

The Alternator relay should be energized when the 00-90 Stepper unit is on an even number. Is that stepper unit working?

Quoted from Egress:

neither does the free game target

I don't see a free game target on the schematic. Where is it? Does it have a light that activates it?

#3 4 days ago

the stepper unit is working properly, and the match feature works too. the alternator relay will intermittently flick on and off and sometimes makes a buzzy/arcing noise. it never stays on however, so the yellow pop bumper is the only one that gets lit most of the time.

its not a free game target, i typed the wrong thing... It's a free ball target. I actually got it to come on by cleaning the 00-90 unit with some q-tips and rubbing alcohol.

another issue has popped up however. How long is the "delay relay" supposed to delay? it doesnt look like its delaying at all.

#4 4 days ago

Alternator coils go bad. They get a lot off on / off action. Make sure the switch on the 00-90 unit is clean and making good contact. No arcing.

#5 4 days ago
Quoted from Skidave:

Alternator coils go bad. They get a lot off on / off action. Make sure the switch on the 00-90 unit is clean and making good contact. No arcing.

all of the contacts on the 00-90 unit have been cleaned and should be making good contact with eachother. is this just a matter of replacing the relay's coil?

#6 4 days ago
Quoted from Egress:

is this just a matter of replacing the relay's coil?

As a test you can swap coils with the Lock relay since both are part# G-33-2800

#7 4 days ago

Does anyone know how long the delay relay should delay for?
What is the delay relay responsible for accomplishing?

#8 4 days ago

Delay relay is there to stop play and temporarily shut the machine off if someone kicks the coin door. It is not a tilt. Tilt ends the ball or game depending on the setting.

The delay circuit uses a 455 flasher bulb. The delay is about 5-10 seconds depending on how long the filament piece takes to heat up so the flasher portion begins. On this setup, when the bulb is about to flash, it releases the lock relay and the game power is available.

#9 4 days ago
Quoted from Skidave:

Delay relay is there to stop play and temporarily shut the machine off if someone kicks the coin door. It is not a tilt. Tilt ends the ball or game depending on the setting.
The delay circuit uses a 455 flasher bulb. The delay is about 5-10 seconds depending on how long the filament piece takes to heat up so the flasher portion begins. On this setup, when the bulb is about to flash, it releases the lock relay and the game power is available.

this delay relay uses a capacitor, not a bulb, and doesnt seem to be a part of the coin door circuit, if i trigger the relay with a pencil the score motor engages and acts as though the firecracker unit has just stops spinning.

is the capacitor only supposed to delay a small amount?

#10 3 days ago
Quoted from Egress:

this delay relay uses a capacitor, not a bulb, and doesnt seem to be a part of the coin door circuit, if i trigger the relay with a pencil the score motor engages and acts as though the firecracker unit has just stops spinning.
is the capacitor only supposed to delay a small amount?

As mentioned above, the delay is meant to stop an angry "person" from continuing to abuse the machine by kicking, lifting & dropping or slamming it against the wall. The delay should be 5 or more seconds.

Look closely at the schematic diagram and study the circuit of the Delay Relay. Be sure your game is wired exactly as shown. The bulb socket is supposed to be attached to the relay. No bulb in socket means no delay. Remember, a #455 flasher bulb need to be used.

UDATE: Since I am not near my schematic files, I see Rolf provided one below that shows Firecracker uses a capacitor for the delay circuit instead of a flasher lamp. Ironically, Bally's "Introduction to Bally Flipper Games" EM service booklet only mentions the 455 lamp for the Delay Relay circuitry.

It appears that the capacitor may be dried out and has failed although standard electrical troubleshooting techniques should be used to make the repair. On the other hand, there is no need for this circuit to operate in a home use environment nor even in a supervised Arcade that is frequented by pinball Afficionados.

#11 3 days ago

Hi
I support with an snippet of schematics. Greetings Rolf

0Firecracker-Work-02 (resized).jpg
#12 3 days ago

I'm definitely replacing that capacitor, i checked it and noticed it leaked out of one end.
I went ahead and ohmed out the alternator relay, its reading 100 ohms give or take one or 2, as is the lock relay, so I'm wondering if its just a dirty connection somewhere not allowing proper voltage to flow to the relay.

I'm still slightly confused on what the delay relay does in this game, it seems to control how long the spin unit tracks spins? I'm not sure.

#13 3 days ago
Quoted from Egress:

this delay relay uses a capacitor, not a bulb, and doesnt seem to be a part of the coin door circuit, if i trigger the relay with a pencil the score motor engages and acts as though the firecracker unit has just stops spinning.

Right you are! The section of schematic shown by Rolf is about another delay circuit, which is used to detect which award is lit when the (hidden internal) spinner stops spinning. So it has to delay a short time, maybe in the hundreds of milliseconds, to see if there will be another switch closure on the spinner. Each closure resets the timing until the interval between closures is long enough to say that the spinner has stopped spinning. The pulses of the spinner also step a stepper from one award to the next, but the intent is to only give one award when the spinning is done.
.................David Marston

PS: For more explanation, you might want to search for explanations of how Gottlieb did it on games like Fun Land and Spin-A-Card. This Bally game copies the Gottlieb circuit.

#14 3 days ago

I think i understand it now, each pulse recharges the capacitor and keeps the relay engaged.
this explains why sometimes it immediately kicks back into the game since i think the contacts on the spin unit need cleaning. what's the best method to clean the contacts on these machines?

another question I figured i'd ask - will LED's work in this machine? the plastics are super warped already and I dont want them to any further. I'm looking at Comet pinball but was wondering if they will work? do i have to do anything special if i put leds in?

#15 3 days ago

I troubleshooted further and the alternator relay is fine. it ohms out fine. However, I think the issue is with the 00-90 unit as if i hold it in a certain position before the ratchet latches, the alternator relay turns on fine. however if i increment it fully the alternator relay pulses briefly and then shuts off.

Is it possible my 00 - 90 unit isn't aligned properly?

#16 3 days ago
Quoted from Egress:

Is it possible my 00 - 90 unit isn't aligned properly?

Well, you said the match is working, so that would argue that the alignment is OK. Try to identify the wiper and contacts associated with the alternator relay and inspect them. To help with checking the action of the 00-90 stepper, you can use a jumper to make the match number show at all times.

And yes, the LED bulbs that are sold as direct replacements for #44 incandescent bulbs work great on an EM. You can use color ones to intensify colors of inserts and the like.
.................David Marston

#17 2 days ago
Quoted from Egress:

I troubleshooted further and the alternator relay is fine. it ohms out fine. However, I think the issue is with the 00-90 unit as if i hold it in a certain position before the ratchet latches, the alternator relay turns on fine. however if i increment it fully the alternator relay pulses briefly and then shuts off.
Is it possible my 00 - 90 unit isn't aligned properly?

That seems likely. How does the 00-90 unit wiper look relative to its rivets?

#18 2 days ago

this rabbit hole gets even deeper.
I decided to take a closer look at the 00-90 unit, and so I took the 2 mounting screws off. almost immediately, I noticed that the solenoid plunger was loose in the solenoid? and once i took it out the entire solenoid coil was just wobbling, not secure at all. in addition to this, theres a small metal rectange with 2 holes on one end thats screwed down, it was just hanging out inside the backbox?
if anyone on here that owns a firecracker can take a photo of their 00-90 unit area I would be thankful, because i'm starting to think mine is missing parts.
I also cant find a knocker coil, or a second bell of any kind, though the schematic mentions both.

#19 2 days ago

the second bell and knocker coil were removed before the machine was bought by my family. so that solves that, but the 00-90 unit is still puzzling, I'd still appreciate a reference photo of a firecracker or similar bally game

#20 1 day ago

alright, progress is being made. I have a new coil sleeve on the way, now on to finding a 1000 microfarad 50v capacitor...
if anyone knows a good place to get one...

#22 1 day ago

capacitor ordered.

what is the best way to clean contacts? I think the issue with my alternator relay is that the 00-90 unit has dirty contacts.

Still asking for someone to post a pic of their 00-90 unit, im wondering if the contacts should be bridged or not

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
$ 5.49
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
$ 12.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
From: $ 59.95
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
Hookedonpinball.com
$ 54.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 25.00
Hardware
Police Force Spinner Out of stock
Tucson Pinball
$ 20.00
Cabinet - Other
Apron Envy
$ 45.00
$ 159.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 19.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 35.00
Cabinet - Decals
Pinball Pimp
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 18.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
€ 8.10
Flipper Parts
Buthamburg
$ 42.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 9,500.00
Pinball Machine
Little Shop Of Games
$ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
From: $ 40.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
From: $ 42.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
ModFather Pinball Mods
From: $ 7.50
Electronics
Docent Electronics
From: $ 9.99
$ 25.00
Cabinet - Other
Filament Printing
£ 49.00
Lighting - Led
PinballToys
From: $ 44.00
$ 40.00
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
Metalhead Pinball
$ 130.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 30.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
3D MODS
$ 120.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
G-Money Mods

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside