(Topic ID: 285088)

Bally Fireball (1972) Flippers Score 10 points


By DrDre

15 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 19 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 days ago by Peruman
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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#1 15 days ago

My right and left flipper buttons are now scoring 10 points with each depression. I placed paper in the rollover switches, rebound switches and sling shots to see if vibration from the flippers was actuating the score. ( all of the 10 point switches) No change. I can’t identify any point on the schematic where BOTH the right and left flipper buttons interact with the 10 point scoring circuit. As far as I can tell, the right flipper button only actuates the right flipper solenoid. The left flipper button does the same for the left solenoid and also actuates the lock relay to power up the playfield. Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

#2 15 days ago

Is the 10-pt relay in the playfield or in the backbox? Could the vibration from the flipper be causing a narrow gapped switch on that relay to score?

Another option could be two wires that are almost shorted on one of the 10-point circuits.

Does bumping the game make it score 10 points?

#3 14 days ago

All the relays for the score wheels are placed in the backbox. Does the 10 pt relay hold in as long as the flipper button is pressed?

#4 14 days ago

10 point relay is in the back box. Holding in flipper button does not hold in the 10 point relay. Relay fires once with each right or left flipper button press.

#5 14 days ago

I bet one of the small round white rollover buttons near the spinner is gapped too close and the flipper vibration is causing it to make contact and score points.

#6 14 days ago

Either that, or there must be an EOS switch somewhere involved, or both. Is there any other relays, coils or solenoids with an EOS switch that also fires when the 10pt relay is engaged? If not, I would check the connection cables to the flipper EOS switches to see if there's a short between circuits.

#7 14 days ago

Also: Do you have a way to measure the voltage level that is fed to the 10 pt relay (when engaged)? If it's full voltage, it indicates a direct short somewhere. If it's less than full voltage, it may indicate that there a short making the current run in series through another component.

#8 14 days ago

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I’ll try measuring voltage after work tonight. I’m still trying to reason out how pressing the right flipper button would have any effect on anything but powering the flipper coil. Based on the schematic, I can’t see any other circuit that the right flipper button interacts with. There is an EOS switch on the 10-90 step up solenoid which advances the score reel by 10. This switch keeps the 10 point relay energized to allow for score reel advancement. I can’t see how that circuit is affected by the flippers.

#9 14 days ago

If there's a short between a 10 pt switch cable and the zipper flipper metal frame AND the insulation has worn off the metal part of the flipper mechanism that touches the EOS switch leafs on BOTH flippers, it could explain the problem. Current can then travel from one or both of the EOS switch leafs, trough the metal parts of the frame, and then leak into the 10 pt circuitry.

#10 14 days ago
Quoted from DrDre:

My right and left flipper buttons are now scoring 10 points with each depression. I placed paper in the rollover switches, rebound switches and sling shots to see if vibration from the flippers was actuating the score.

No offense meant, but can you expand on exactly where you placed the paper within the sling shots?

#11 14 days ago

Placed paper between the leaf switches for the rollover switches, rebound switches and the leaf switches for the sling shots. “Deactivated” all of the 10 point leaf switches to see if flipper vibration was causing 10 point relay activation. No change....had no effect. Sizteves...I like your idea about a potential short with the metal frame of the zipper flipper assembly. Will check that out. Thanks

#12 13 days ago

I don't think I've ever worked on a 70's era Bally slingshot mechanism, but if the design is similar to Williams and Gottlieb slingshots, there will be 3 leaf switches on each slingshot. There are typically two vertically-oriented leaf switches that protrude above the playfield where the contact faces sit directly behind the kicking rubber. Those switches function only to energize the solenoid for the kicker. The 3rd slingshot switch sits horizontally oriented underneath the playfield and is located just above the top of the plunger yoke such that it closes when the plunger is pulled in. That is the scoring switch that is in circuit to the 10-pt relay. The scoring switch is often difficult to see and get at, as are the wires at the tab ends of the leafs. Just wanting to make sure you blocked that scoring switch underneath the playfield with paper and inspected the solder points to make sure the tab ends of the leafs were not barely touching. That switch is easily overlooked, but it sounds like you got it.

L

#13 13 days ago

Thanks for the info. I didn’t block the underplayfield switchs. Didn’t realize that a third switch on the slingshot mechanism actually actuates the 10 point relay. Will be checking that and going over the flipper mechanisms looking for any potential short.

1 week later
#14 6 days ago

I disassembled and deactivated all of the lower playfield 10 point rollover switches and the two slingshot ten point switches. No change. Still score ten point with RT and LT flipper actuation. I visibly inspected the entire zipper flipper mechanism. Can’t find any bare wires or touching wires. I jumpered the RT flipper coil, connected it directly to Yellow (center transformer) and +50 volts RED (other side of flipper coil and EOS switch. When I did this using the fireball transformer I got the same behavior, scores 10 points when actuating the RT flipper coil. I then did the same thing using power from another Bally machine(nip-it). When I did this I only actuated the flipper, got no 10 point coil activation. This makes me think that there is no short from the zipper flipper assembly to the 10 point circuit. Does this indicate a short along another point in the ten point scoring circuit? Should I try to “isolate” this circuit ? That seems like a big undertaking, may have to unbundle some cable bundles. Also, I tried measuring the voltage across the ten point coil. Only got a garbage reading. Do I have to disconnect the hot lead from the coil to measure? Thanks. Karl

#15 6 days ago

If you manually activate the flipper bats with the machine in game play mode, does it score 10 points. Meaning you start the game and then flick the bats.

If you remove the power feed to the flipper coils, does it still still score 10 points via the flipper buttons?

Some ideas I can think to try.

#16 5 days ago

Yes. With the game reset and in play mode, hitting the RT and LT flipper buttons actuates the flipper coil and scores 10 points.
I disconnected the +50 lead to the RT flipper coil , pushed button, nothing, no 10 points or coil activation. Did the same for the yellow
Ground (neutral) lead on the other side of the coil and EOS switch. Pushed button, no 10 point score or coil activation.
Fed RT flipper coil directly from the transformer ...scored 10 points. Did it from another pinball machine transformer...NO 10 point score.
Thanks. Karl

#17 4 days ago

So to complete the test, if you have a spare coil (any sort) connect it in place of one of the flipper coils x make sure the completely disconnect the wires form the flipper coil and put them in the spare coil. If this doesn’t score 10 points then is HAS to be something to do with the flipper mech itself. If it does of course then it still pints to a short or incorrect wiring somewhere.

#18 3 days ago

Thanks for all of the comments on my problem. I rewired all of the 10 point switches with a replacement wire jumper which connects back to the hot terminal on the 10 point relay. I was able to then systematically disconnect each switch. I found that only one switch being “active” caused the flipper 10 point activation. It is the upper left rebound switch, across from the upper left pop bumper. I going to try to rewire the yellow neutral lead on this switch to another position (possibly another 10 point switch yellow neutral ). If this works, then there is some short on this switch circuit to the flippers (probably its yellow neutral lead) . Won’t be able to actually identify it without unbundling lots of cable bundles. Don’t think I’ll do that. Karl

#19 3 days ago

I have been following this post to see what the root cause was. I'm glad you found it.

I'm curious, after you add the new wire, do you plan to zip-tie it to the wire bundle or just let it run on it's own?

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