Bally EM Zip-A-Doo Problems

(Topic ID: 193861)

Bally EM Zip-A-Doo Problems


By mwester

1 year ago



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  • 14 posts
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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by mwester
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#1 1 year ago

I'm looking for some advice on diagnosing a Zip-A-Doo pin I just got last week. The machine seems to be in good shape but had been sitting long enough for the rubber to crumble off and turn to dust. I've cleaned the play field, fixed the rubber, replaced about half the bulbs and made a number of switch adjustments... most things are working pretty good.

I now have two problems... For some reason, it will not allow a two player game. Hitting the start button twice just resets it twice and then it plays the first player game. I've checked the ball index switch which seem to work ok. I can also see that manually holding the player solenoid in the back cabinet will light the second player and then while holding it, scoring will occur for the second player. I think it mostly works... I just don't understand what mechanism should be tripping the player solenoid.

Another problem that may be related, is that occasionally it doesn't advance to the next ball after the ball exits. It just replays the same ball over.

Thanks in advance for any insight into how EMs switch players!

#2 1 year ago

Do you have the operations manual, score motor chart and a set of schematics ?

I am not the best at looking at this stuff but slug through it my my couple of EM tables.

the operations manual will give you the order-of-operations and a clue to what relay works what.

I have a Joust which is a two player table and has an interesting way the stepper unit handles two player mode.

I would think a sticky player up stepper would be a place to start (On my machine it does the ball count as well) how to clean steppers here http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#emsteppersvideo

#3 1 year ago

Hi ch10e, Thanks for the ideas... unfortunately I don't have any info on this pin at all other than what is printed on the little stickers inside it. I've been studying the score motor after reading some pin repair websites... that seems like the place where the problem will be but so far no luck. I'm guess I'm going to have to see if I can find a manual for it somewhere...

#4 1 year ago

Give Steve Young a phone call http://pbresource.com/ about 20 bucks for a nicely printed large schematic also ask for a manual & score motor sheet hopefully he has them all. he only accepts payment by check.

tell him your a first time caller (if you indeed are) and if you need parts give him a part number
http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/BLY_Parts_1973/index.html ...

looks like you have a long camshaft same as my Joust ... is there a "2 can play" trip relay there? also is there a separate "multi-play" relay in the bottom of the box?

#5 1 year ago

Thanks chas10e, I found the problem but fixing it has brought to life a new problem... While digging around I found a set of two relays that had a sticker that said "second coin relay". I had seen it before but didn't think it had to do with players... looking at it more closely though, I saw that someone had stuck some paper between the relay switches so that it couldn't work... so I pulled the paper out and of course, now the second player fires right up.

I thought it was strange that it had paper in it but now that the second score reel was working, I found that every time the 1000's reel ticks over one, the solenoid stays active and the reel will spin a few numbers. If not turned off, the solenoid stays on and starts getting hot. I have to power down to make it release. I figure this is why someone disabled it.

So now, I just have to figure this one out. What fun!

I still want to get a manual though... I found this one...
"An Introduction to Bally Flipper Games Manual, 1st Edition"

Have you (or anyone else) ever seen this manual? It supposed to cover about 30 of the Bally EM games.

#6 1 year ago

I would think the end of stroke switch on P2-1,000 point reel needs to be checked/cleaned

I don't have that Bally flipper games manual but should I come across one on the cheap I would surly snag one

#7 1 year ago

You need to see if the ball count unit is working freely. It probably is moving slow and you need to remove the old grease from all shafts and bores that the shafts run in.

#8 1 year ago

Hi chas10e, That sounded like a good idea, the EOS switch... it would make sense that if it didn't open, the solenoid would stay energized. The 10000 reel (The last one) doesn't have an EOS switch so I checked the 1000 reel EOS and it seems to be working correctly.

I did note something else though... there is always power going to the 10000 reel solenoid. It's only when it's setting at 0 that the switches are open so it isn't energized. Anytime it goes off zero it starts running. There isn't any problem with the first player 10000 reel so I'm thinking the problem has to be somewhere in the 2nd player circuit... I noted too that even in single player mode and even when I simply turn on the game, with no game started and no general illumination, there is still 50 volts on the 10000 reel switch. This voltage does not show up as a constant on any other reel. I'm thinking there must be a direct short somewhere. (by the way... 50 volts can make your teeth chatter if you grab hold of it... speaking from experience...)

I did check the ball count PapaJohn. It seems to be working correctly. It had been skipping advancing to the next ball sometimes, but rarely now. I think it has improved as I keep playing it.

Any tips on how to diagnose a short (If indeed that's what's going on here.)?

#9 1 year ago

on my Joust , there is no EOS switch on the 10,000 pt score reels either .... I would suspect both a closed contact on a reset relay and a contact on the score motor that toggles the reset circuit ( looking at my schematic )

the specific wheel on your score motor may be different. did you call Steve Young for all the documentation?

IMG_1376 (resized).JPG

#10 1 year ago

Thanks chas10e... No, I haven't called about a schematic yet but that time is fast approaching. The machine has a couple of other anomalies... I've noticed that sometimes, the extra ball light will come on when a pop bumper or sling shot or the 10,000 score reel or the bonus counter is fired. It shouldn't be doing this and it's totally random. I know the bonus counter is reset by the score motor so I've been scrutinizing it... so far it looks like all the switches are adjusted correctly.

I've been trying to figure it out but it gets pretty complicated. I'm starting to think a schematic is the only way I'm going to find the bug.

By the way, I found a free download for "An Introduction to Bally Flipper Games Manual, 1st Edition" so I have a copy now. It has a ton of good information in it but unfortunately, no specific game schematics. Here's the link in case anyone is interested...

rwatts.cdyn.com/download/intro%20to%20bally%20flipper%20games.pdf

#11 1 year ago

A note about Zip-A-Doo: During it's production run, Bally changed the wiring in the machine and it required a second version of the schematic. So, there are two versions of the schematic - early version and late version. You'll need to mention the machine number when ordering to tell if you need an early or late version of the schematic. Machine number should be punched on the right side of the main cabinet near the flipper button...

#12 1 year ago

Thanks for the tip fredsmythson, I found a number on a card stapled underneath the play field right beside the right flipper. The number is 1132 but I thought that less than 1100 of these machines were made. I'll still mention this number when I order the schematics. I'm guessing I need the late version.

You don't happen to have one of these machines do you? I found a wire down in the cabinet that is not connected to anything and I think it should be. It also happens to be a white wire with a black tracer which is the same color wire that is staying hot on my 10000 score reel. If you do, I'd like to post a picture of mine to see if you could tell me what it should be connected to.

Thanks for all your help guys!

#13 1 year ago

Hard to say where that stray wire might go without a schematic... If the 10000 score reel solenoid is always energized, you can check the following switches and relays in its circuit:

1st player 1000-9000 9th position switch
2nd player 1000-9000 9th position switch
Player relay switch
1000 pt relay switch

Check to make sure these switches are clean and adjusted properly. Check for any disconnected wires on the switch stacks...

#14 1 year ago

Well, this thing has me beat. I finally ordered the schematic today from PBResource. Hopefully it'll help tracking this bug down.

They didn't have a manual... anyone know a good source for pinball manuals?

I'll post back the solution when I find it. Thanks guys, for all your help.

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