(Topic ID: 131248)

Bally EM Bon Voyage won't start

By xsvtoys

8 years ago


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  • 60 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by xsvtoys
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Bon_Voyage_Schematic.pdf (PDF preview)
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#2 8 years ago

Right off the bat I can tell you that the Game Over Relay is a Latch/Trip relay, so it's going to be two coils, one that pulls in the relay and latches it, and another one that pulls in to let the latch go and reset the relay to normal. The photos on IPDB show at least two sets of Latch/Trip relays on the motorboard. One is on the front left near the coin door and one is right behind the score motor. If you manually latch and trip the correct one the Game Over light should turn on and off.

Since you have the schematic, you can confirm that you have found the Game Over Relay by checking the wire colors coming into it.

After you've tried manually changing over the Game Over relay, I would go back to the adjustments you tinkered with. Try setting everything back as it was. Make sure the jones plug pins and sockets are clean, that no wires have broken off, etc.

#12 8 years ago

I think we'll all be of more help when we get a look at the schematic. Thanks for working on getting a scan.

My apologies for not realizing the Game Over was on the reset bank. I have to say I've never seen a reset bank with a motor before. Is that something common to Bally bingos, Nick, or just all Bally pins? I've worked on Gottlieb and Williams games with banks that reset with one big coil and then change individual relays with latch/trip operation, but not one that worked like a score motor with cams and switch stacks.

#19 8 years ago

Photos of the schematic will work; a PDF is nice but not a necessity to help you get it going. Mainly I'd want to see the section related to the Credit button->Credit Unit->Game Over Relay circuit that usually gets things started on an EM and a picture of the reset bank on the schematic would be nice. Just so long as we can read the text it'll work.

That you have no score motor activity or any sign of action from putting in coins, manually stepping up the credit unit/setting it on free play, etc., makes me think the problem is something that should be a normally closed switch in that circuit isn't closed. A switch on the Game Over relay stack on the reset bank, a switch on the credit unit, the start button itself (both wires soldered to the start button switch okay, switch clean and making contact?), etc. That getting the reset bank to start up causes it to never actually complete its reset also hints at something not being in the right position, since I'd imagine there are switches on the stacks that act like 0 position switches on a score reel that say they're latched and the reset bank motor doesn't have to keep running on their account.

Is the Game Interlock Relay working okay? I can't quite tell how the switches are configured because I think some of what I'm seeing in the pictures are the shadows of the switches above. What I mean by working okay is that if you latch it and then trip it, do the switches change positions properly? Normally open switches should close, normally closed should open, and make/break switches should switch from one set closed to the other. It kind of looks like one switch might be misadjusted, but it may just be an optical illusion/shadow. From what I've been reading the "Game Interlock Relay" is tied into Game Over, on some Bally EMs at least.

#21 8 years ago

Let me try to clarify what I mean by "working." I mean are the switches on the relay working in a logical way. With the game off, and the relay in the tripped position, so not held in place by the latch, look at the switches on the relay. They should be in pairs of leaves or in groups of three leaves. Each pair should either be touching or not touching. The groups of three should have one set of switch leaves touching and one leaf close by, but not touching. Now, latch the relay. All the switch conditions should flip-flop. The closed switches should be open, the open switches should close, and the groups of three should change so that the middle switch leaf closes with the switch leaf that was previously open and break away from the leaf it had been touching. Trip the relay and they should all go back the way they were before. If you have a switch blade that doesn't touch anything whether the relay is tripped or latched, or one that stays closed in both positions, then that switch is misadjusted. That may not be the case here, like I said I can't tell for sure if I'm just seeing a shadow, but it's a good idea to understand that the switches are generally going to follow this rule. They're either going to be open, closed, or make/break (that's the group of three), and when the relay is activated they'll change to the opposite condition they start in. If they're not doing one of those three things, something isn't right about their adjustment.

Anyway, thanks for the schematic. In regards to your question, only the Gottlieb rights holders insist on flexing their copyright muscle. Personally, I think sharing documentation is only good for the community, even the parts sellers, as people tend to get games working and sink more substantial money into them when they have a manual and schematics as a sort of "freebie" enticement into the habit of pin collecting. That's just my opinion, of course. You paid for it and scanned it, so I'd say it's up to you to decide what you do with it.

I need to get to bed, but I'll have a look over the schematic in the morning and try to post back. I imagine Nick and Rolf will have their take on things, too. We'll get it going soon enough.

#22 8 years ago

Alright, maybe I'll go ahead and have a look. First, the Delay Relay should not be pulled in at start-up. I know you and Rolf were discussing it coming on when there was a slam tilt. That relay should be off in any other situation except a slam tilt or a kick off. There is a normally closed switch on it that basically provides all the grounding for all the sections of the coin up and start process, so if the delay is on none of it works. I think you've troubleshot that pretty well and it's probably not the issue, but just to be sure look at the Delay Relay and check the switch with the black-red and black wires coming to it. It should be closed when the relay is off and open when it's energized and pulled in (on).

So besides the Delay Relay, the chain of logic to getting things going seems to be this:

A make break switch at 1F on the score motor should be closed (probably is, I wouldn't tinker with the score motor until you absolutely have to), there is a normally closed switch on the Reset Relay that should be closed (has a black-white wire to it), the credit (start) button needs to be pressed, the Credit Unit Zero switch, which is open when there are no credits on the reel, should be closed, and finally either the Game Over Trip (the one on the Reset Bank?) or the Game Relay (Game Interlock Relay?) need to be closed. If all those things are closed it creates a path to the Credit Relay, which will then hold itself on. The Credit Relay activates the Coin Relay, which activates the Reset Relay, which essentially gets the game going.

What's weird is that it sounds like you weren't anywhere near any of these things when the problem started. Weren't you adjusting settings in the backbox? I'd triple check the credit unit, since that's the only thing that would have been close by that's relevant. Tug the wires, look for bad solder joints, make sure the free play switches you adjusted are the Credit Unit Zero switches (grey-yellow and white-orange wires to that set). Be absolutely sure the credit unit is really telling the game that it has credits on it. Is the credit light on, on the bottom left side of the apron?

It also looks like the Coin Relay may be holding the Reset Motor on. The Coin Relay holds itself on through a switch on its own stack and a normally open switch on the Game Relay (whichever one that is, the one on the Reset Bank or the interlock?). So if the Game Relay doesn't drop out, the Coin Relay stays energized and keeps running the Reset Motor forever.

#24 8 years ago

Definitely good advice to start from the coil and work back. Also, cleaning the switches and tightening the switch stacks is a definite must. Just because it looks like it's closed doesn't mean it actually is, either. I worked on a Williams Gridiron for two hours once, tracing everything from the backbox to score motor, only to find my problem was a single backbox switch that was somehow gapped by a micron and not really closed. If you want to be absolutely sure, use a multimeter and test for continuity between the solder lugs. That's how I found that one.

#51 8 years ago

Glad you got it working, but sorry for leading you astray. I have to remember those coin switches for future reference.

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